BoxRec

Kevo wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Hatton can't really call himself champ at 140, linear or otherwise...

Of course he can, you can't be stripped of/dump a linear title, it can only be won or lost in the ring. As far as I know, nobody has beaten him, and there's nobody else that has a decent claim to the title.

Kevo wrote:

I suppose your right. The linear title is like the pfp, in that its differs from person to person. Best to nip this in the bud now, before this thread descends into a 'Linear champ' argument, and god knows theres been enough of them!

Kevo wrote:

MightyWarrior wrote:Hatton can't really call himself champ at 140, linear or otherwise...

Of course he can, you can't be stripped of/dump a linear title, it can only be won or lost in the ring. As far as I know, nobody has beaten him, and there's nobody else that has a decent claim to the title.

Kevo wrote:Nobody said it did. Fact of the matter is, Hatton beat Tszyu, therefore he is the linear champ.

rhino222 wrote:see.....here you go again, you are a clone of team hatton and you sound like spuds shoe shine boy.

you mention 'unification' ...

you mention 'title at a higher weight' ...

then hatton drops all of the titles and claims titles mean nothing.

please explain yourself!!!

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Taki... wrote:

rhino222 wrote: styles make fights, and hattton would come at junior cos hatton knows no other way, so therefore there would be good action, witter v any counter puncher is a potential bore-fest though.

junior might be well behind hatton in the fan amounts, but he holds something that hatton will never have, the WBC crown....so if ricky wants it, and junior still has it, then hatton has got to come to the party. it would be a massive domestic event.

What are you on about? Hatton, despite his little trip into the welterweights, is still the linear champion at light-welter. The WBC 'crown' means sod all. Witter's title has zero credibility; he beats N'dou (just, even though he had his man down), follows that by getting an absolute gift against Kotelnik, fights a man out of his depth in Lynes (who was beaten more impressively by both Lenny Daws and Sam Malinga), and finally beats an over the hill Demarcus Corley, again, just. Witter desperately needs Hatton, not the other way around. And to be fair with the JLC fight just around the corner Witter will have to make do with his WBC 'crown' and the Arturo Morua's of this world... who knows he might not struggle, for a change.

Hatton may be 'linear', but a linear title does not make you undisputed best in a a division and a linear title can be abused by not fighting the best and Hatton is doing just that at the moment. Erdei is linear at 175 but he isn't near the best and doesnt go near the best unless the judges have been sufficiently bribed (Garay).

Witter/Harris/Mbaiye/Judah (hes back) are the top 4 contenders at 140lbs not Castillo who is unproven at 140 aged at 33 (when he fights at 140) got a gift against Cassa and lost and beat Corrales while cheating. Has he been chosen because its suspected Castillo will be aged like many Hatton opponents? Anyway it should be a great fight if Castillo still has IT.

Saying Witter got a gift against Kotelnik is bullshit, Kotelnik did nothing for 6rounds and Witter outworked him in the last round. That makes the scores 7-5. Witter looked bloody awful but he did win it. Hes looked better since by shutting out Corley.

Witter has been learning through mistakes against top10 opponents just like Hatton did when he made mistakes against Magee/Thaxton/Tackie/Phillips. Witter showed stamina and pacing himself problems and Hatton showed defensive problems that nearly saw him getting stopped.

I will give Hatton his props as a true champ (hes a top fighter already)when he faces the best and looks to clean out 140 (which is thin on the ground), any 3 from Castillo, Witter, Judah, Mbaiye, Harris. Or alternatively take the Mayweather fight thats been offered to him on about 5 occasions.

Taki... wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Taki... wrote: What are you on about? Hatton, despite his little trip into the welterweights, is still the linear champion at light-welter. The WBC 'crown' means sod all. Witter's title has zero credibility; he beats N'dou (just, even though he had his man down), follows that by getting an absolute gift against Kotelnik, fights a man out of his depth in Lynes (who was beaten more impressively by both Lenny Daws and Sam Malinga), and finally beats an over the hill Demarcus Corley, again, just. Witter desperately needs Hatton, not the other way around. And to be fair with the JLC fight just around the corner Witter will have to make do with his WBC 'crown' and the Arturo Morua's of this world... who knows he might not struggle, for a change.

Hatton may be 'linear', but a linear title does not make you undisputed best in a a division and a linear title can be abused by not fighting the best and Hatton is doing just that at the moment. Erdei is linear at 175 but he isn't near the best and doesnt go near the best unless the judges have been sufficiently bribed (Garay).

Witter/Harris/Mbaiye/Judah (hes back) are the top 4 contenders at 140lbs not Castillo who is unproven at 140 aged at 33 (when he fights at 140) got a gift against Cassa and lost and beat Corrales while cheating. Has he been chosen because its suspected Castillo will be aged like many Hatton opponents? Anyway it should be a great fight if Castillo still has IT.

Saying Witter got a gift against Kotelnik is bullshit, Kotelnik did nothing for 6rounds and Witter outworked him in the last round. That makes the scores 7-5. Witter looked bloody awful but he did win it. Hes looked better since by shutting out Corley.

Witter has been learning through mistakes against top10 opponents just like Hatton did when he made mistakes against Magee/Thaxton/Tackie/Phillips. Witter showed stamina and pacing himself problems and Hatton showed defensive problems that nearly saw him getting stopped.

I will give Hatton his props as a true champ (hes a top fighter already)when he faces the best and looks to clean out 140 (which is thin on the ground), any 3 from Castillo, Witter, Judah, Mbaiye, Harris. Or alternatively take the Mayweather fight thats been offered to him on about 5 occasions.

'Undisputed' is the most pointless moniker in boxing. A fighter can go from undisputed to disputed without losing, by fighting the best possible opponent and gettinf stripped, by picking up an injury, by not paying a sanctioning fees...and so on. 'Linear' carries far more weight because it doesn't rely on a bunch of dodgy governing bodies draping their overrated belts around a fighters waist. You win and lose a 'linear' title in the ring. Nowhere else.

Witter, M'Baye, Harris and Judah? I think I'll give a man who destroyed Diego Corrales a little more credibility than those fellows, even if he is moving up 5 pounds. Castillo and Hatton are the banner fighters at 140, irrespective of where the belts are.

When was Hatton 'nearly stopped' early in his career! Are you talking about the flash KD he suffered against Magee?
Witter has not improved at all in the last 3 or 4 years and it's questionable that he's even fought a top 10 140lb fighter. I didn't think N'dou was top 10 at the time Witter beat him I didn't think Corley was either (despite his lofty WBC ranking).

rhino222 wrote:im being serious, and i heard it on the radio yesterday, but hatton has been promised free pies for life from some kind of promotional deal.

by the looks of hattons waistline...i think it might be gingsters !!

witter has to earn his shot and beating old man corley and struggling against kotelnik and lynes ain't cutting it old man.

Ant Evans wrote: * Vivian Harris was a possibility for Ricky earlier this year, but he iffed and butted so Collazo, who had a world title, fought Hatton instead. I don't really see how Ricky can be avoided Harris when Ricky had KO'd Maussa who'd KO'd Harris.

Ant Evans wrote:Good debate, thought I'd throw 10pence in...

1 Fight Academy will be announcing some major signings over the next couple of weeks, I've been told who they are and I believe the new additions will make the FA stable as strong as any promoter on the UK front.

2 What will it take for some people to accept Louie Collazo is a very talented young fighter? Collazo holds a win over Jose Rivera – who went on to win the WBA light middle belt and is about to make his third defense. Collazo is also fighting Shane Mosley in March (perhaps at light middle!). And when – not if - Collazo beats Mosley, then hopefully people will come to realize just what kind of fighter Hatton was in with last May. And, yes, I am a Collazo fan ever since I met him in 2004. Great guy and good mix of clever boxing and fighting.

3 Hatton has more right to call himself junior welter champ than Witter. Hatton stopped the linear champion and then the reigning WBA champ. Witter picked up a vacant title against a shot to pieces Chop Chop – 3-3 in his last 6! - and stunk the place out in front of about 600 bored Darren Barker and John Murray fans. Witter couldn't draw money if you dipped him in glue and dragged him through Fort Knox. Ricky Hatton would sell more tickets to him playing cards than Witter does to his efforts in the ring.

4 RHINO - (hello mate, hope you are well) HBO will not have Junior Witter for Ricky Hatton. Period. From from HBO have told me - they will not have Junior Witter. Period. Witter was actually turned down as an opponent for Hopkins on Boxing After Dark FFS! And we all know how rubbish BAD has been of late. The Judah fight ruined Junior's rep in the US and, what, you think Mark Taffet will change his mind if he sees tapes of Junior struggling to defeat Lynes? Of him needing a gift decision not to lose his EBU title to Andreas Kotelnik? Or how about him literally standing still for 30seconds at a time v Corley?

5 Junior Witter's entire career is based on the fact that Ricky Hatton and he live in the same country. Other than being born in England, he's achieved nothing to set himself up as an opponent for Hatton. And fighting a never-was like Morua – who has lost SEVEN times in the last 5 years – is not gonna change that no matter how insulting he gets in press releases.

6 Witter can't beat the likes of Kotelnik but he'd have beaten Tszyu? That supposed to be funny?

7 Hatton v Castillo is not like Calzaghe v Taylor/Wright... that's to say it is not some "plan" or a best-case wish-list. It is happening, terms have been agreed for some time. It's done. It'll happen in the summer.

8 What "top 10" fighters has Witter beaten? I'll give you Ndou - but he's one fighter, not fighterS.

9 Vivian Harris was a possibility for Ricky earlier this year, but he iffed and butted so Collazo, who had a world title, fought Hatton instead. I don't really see how Ricky can be avoided Harris when Ricky had KO'd Maussa who'd KO'd Harris.

10 Junior Witter will be lucky to take home £35-40K for this next fight, whereas Ricky will earn several million for Urango. That is the difference between the two men and their respective careers and gives you some idea of the true worth of Witter and his belt.

11 I spoke to Ricky and Ray Hatton about this on Sunday and they are of the strong opinion that why should they hand Witter, who has done nothing but insult them and base his entire existence on slagging Hatton off, a pay-day that neither he nor his promoter can get for themselves?

Ant Evans wrote: 1. James - that's my whole point. Ricky would NOT 'earn nicely' out of Hatton v Witter. HBO will not and would not take it, so that would leave UK TV money only.

2. If Witter were an American or had an exciting style, I'm sure HBO would feel differently. However, Mark Taffet is on record saying HBO won't entertain Witter as a Hatton opponent. They won't have him; and surely the reasons why are clear to all.

3. And Ray Hatton told me Sunday that he'd be loath for his son to take a paycut in order to buy Witter - who has slagged off his son for nearly seven years now - a house.

4. Regarding Cotto, I think he looked pretty awesome at 147lbs while Hatton admitted he wasn't at his best when he fought there. The difference is Ricky's current best weight is at '40 while Cotto's is clearly at '47.

5. And Ricky will fight 3 times next year, Jan v Urango, June time v Castillo and then again in October/November/December. As Ricky
insists on only fighting fellow world champs or geninue top tier fighters like Castillo, if he wins all three I think he'll have the year of his career in 2007.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Ant Evans wrote: 1. James - that's my whole point. Ricky would NOT 'earn nicely' out of Hatton v Witter. HBO will not and would not take it, so that would leave UK TV money only.

2. If Witter were an American or had an exciting style, I'm sure HBO would feel differently. However, Mark Taffet is on record saying HBO won't entertain Witter as a Hatton opponent. They won't have him; and surely the reasons why are clear to all.

3. And Ray Hatton told me Sunday that he'd be loath for his son to take a paycut in order to buy Witter - who has slagged off his son for nearly seven years now - a house.

4. Regarding Cotto, I think he looked pretty awesome at 147lbs while Hatton admitted he wasn't at his best when he fought there. The difference is Ricky's current best weight is at '40 while Cotto's is clearly at '47.

5. And Ricky will fight 3 times next year, Jan v Urango, June time v Castillo and then again in October/November/December. As Ricky
insists on only fighting fellow world champs or geninue top tier fighters like Castillo, if he wins all three I think he'll have the year of his career in 2007.

1. Bollox, Witter-Hatton would top any opponent including Castillo (who isn't a big draw himself). The British PPV and British Gate would be huge. Every British fight fan wants this fight and every Hatton fans knows Witter. It would also be a unification fight.

Witter would make him less than none top 10 Urango who lost his last fight? Are you having a laugh?

2. Bollox, if they'll have Winky 'The Cure to Insomnia' Wright they'll take any champ

3. He'd also loath to see his son KTFO by Witter I'm sure

4. And why did Ricky turn down Cotto, Mayweather, Judah, Witter, Harris, Mitchell, Corley when he was offered fights with them at 140 over the space of 6years?

5. Correction, Hatton fights only the worst P4P champions that probably aren't top10 in their divisions.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Well this argument could go on and on because as a Hatton fan you'll defend his career choices to the hilt and critisise Witter without objectivity. And in turn I'll be a critic until I see the man fully proven. Hatton is a fantastic pressure fighter, maybe the best at 140, maybe not, as a boxing fan I'd like to see put to the test, that is all.

The point about being undisputed is Hatton does not seem to be looking to fight the best (the top5 fighters in his division). Tyszu in his exile was stripped because he didnt fight the best contenders for years.

Top 10s Witters fought - Corley (obvious 1 hes been top10 for about 6years), Kotelnik (beat Abdulev), Ndou (edged Mitchell but got robbed). Witter proved himself at least top4 at 140lbs, maybe hes the best, only 1 way to find that out - see him fighting Hatton.

When was Hatton nearly stopped - Magee, Tackie, Thaxton and to a lesser extent Phillips. All had him close at 1 stage.

My point about Witter is he made foolish mistakes in punching himself out in 2 of his fights, which he will be unlikely to make again.

Castillo is a top fighter but 140 is a different league so he can't be ranked top5 in the division yet. Especially as his last title shot he lost to former Super-Feather Corrales who got outboxed by former past prime Super Feather Cassamoya, who Castillo in turn received a gift against. The funny thing is when Cassamoya was been mentioned as a possible Mayweather opponent after Gatti everyone said Mayweather was taking easy challenges

And you mention Corrales - well Castillo lost to him when all was equal, but out of Witter, Harris, Mbaiye, Judah - I'd expect them all to KO the weaker chinned battle scard Corrales at 140.

Hatton-Castillo is a top fight it just irks me to see Witter, Judah, Mbaiye, Harris frozen out of the world scene. How do these fighters get a shot at the linear champ? Because beating top10 contenders isn't enough it seems.

Another thing about Castillo is that whenever hes fought the best at 135 its been very close - Corrales/Cassamoya/Johnson - when he moves upto 140 surely he should be a level below against the best? Maybe not, maybe he'll be revived at 140

Castillo/Hatton is the best fight at 140 in every single way possible.

Taki... wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Well this argument could go on and on because as a Hatton fan you'll defend his career choices to the hilt and critisise Witter without objectivity. And in turn I'll be a critic until I see the man fully proven. Hatton is a fantastic pressure fighter, maybe the best at 140, maybe not, as a boxing fan I'd like to see put to the test, that is all.

The point about being undisputed is Hatton does not seem to be looking to fight the best (the top5 fighters in his division). Tyszu in his exile was stripped because he didnt fight the best contenders for years.

Top 10s Witters fought - Corley (obvious 1 hes been top10 for about 6years), Kotelnik (beat Abdulev), Ndou (edged Mitchell but got robbed). Witter proved himself at least top4 at 140lbs, maybe hes the best, only 1 way to find that out - see him fighting Hatton.

When was Hatton nearly stopped - Magee, Tackie, Thaxton and to a lesser extent Phillips. All had him close at 1 stage.

My point about Witter is he made foolish mistakes in punching himself out in 2 of his fights, which he will be unlikely to make again.

Castillo is a top fighter but 140 is a different league so he can't be ranked top5 in the division yet. Especially as his last title shot he lost to former Super-Feather Corrales who got outboxed by former past prime Super Feather Cassamoya, who Castillo in turn received a gift against. The funny thing is when Cassamoya was been mentioned as a possible Mayweather opponent after Gatti everyone said Mayweather was taking easy challenges

And you mention Corrales - well Castillo lost to him when all was equal, but out of Witter, Harris, Mbaiye, Judah - I'd expect them all to KO the weaker chinned battle scard Corrales at 140.

Hatton-Castillo is a top fight it just irks me to see Witter, Judah, Mbaiye, Harris frozen out of the world scene. How do these fighters get a shot at the linear champ? Because beating top10 contenders isn't enough it seems.

Another thing about Castillo is that whenever hes fought the best at 135 its been very close - Corrales/Cassamoya/Johnson - when he moves upto 140 surely he should be a level below against the best? Maybe not, maybe he'll be revived at 140

Why would I defend Hatton's career choices to the hilt? As long as it's not one of those 'hater' arguments I'm more than happy to motor along the highway of objectivity...
Hatton's made plenty of mistakes in career choice. For a start he should've dumped allegedly allegedly 2 years earlier than he did, but earning big money for relatively easy fights has its attractions I guess.
If memory serves Harris pulled out of a signed and sealed fight with Hatton. Opting to take Kostya Tszyu was pretty damn ballsy (for Warren as well as Hatton), however that stroke of career genius went off the rails when nothing came of the proposed fight between Corrales and Hatton. Maussa was (clever) opportunism.
As for Tszyu being stripped for not fighting the best contenders... Gatti (WBC) ; nothing better than decent, Harris (WBA); horribly exposed by the limited Maussa, and Sharmba Mitchell (IBF); destroyed in moments by Tszyu. If Kostya Tszyu had managed to avoid injury none of those men would've dented him. Can you imagine Tszyu/Gatti?.. makes me feel sorry for poor old Arturo just thinking about it.

Corley was a top 10 fighter, but in the last 3 years his only wins are against Tyson (50-13), Carter (9-45) and Walker (18-17), how exactly does that make him top 10?
Kotelnik is a top 10 fighter, but Witter got a home town decision in a fight Kotelnik clearly won.
N'dou loses to top 10 fighters whether that makes him top 10 is debatable. N'dou was also clearly passed his best when Witter beat him. Top 15? Perhaps... top 10? Doubtful.

Magee scored a flash KD... thats no more 'almost getting stopped' than Amir Khan falling over in the ropes the other night. Tackie, Thaxton, Phillips... so now getting caught with a decent shot is almost a stoppage?

The old 'he beat him, and he lost to him, and he beat this other guy, so this means this and that means that' reasoning never works, and proves absolutely nothing... Castillo and Hatton are #1 and #2 at 140, no matter that neither was even in the division in their last fight. I doubt you'll find anyone who will argue that point.

Harris blew his chance to 'get a shot' when he lost to Maussa, M'baye has hardly set the division on fire has he... Balbi? Witter, for all your protests, isn't in Castillo's league. And Judah has lost two on the trot.

Castillo/Hatton is the best fight at 140 in every single way possible.