BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

SticknMove wrote:Nope, I disagree Pacman will beat Guzman inside the distance. Guzman has great handspeed and may have a bunch of tricks, but I think Pacman's handspeed and heavy combination punching will be the difference. Guzman likes to lean over the front foot and pot shot showboat fashion. That will not work on Pacman.

Anyway, given that Pacman is considered by many on this thread to be at least No.2 P4P in the world at present, why is Guzman suddenly more fancied to win?

Styles make fights. Marquez boxed his ears off for 10 of 12 rounds despite being dropped three times. Guzman is more fluid than Marquez, and more of a puncher.

Of course styles make fights. That’s why I can see no other result other than Pacman TKO'ing this guy. People are making a case for Guzman based on excellent boxing skills and Pacquaio’s fight against Marquez.

Firstly, Guzman has looked very good against the opposition he has faced so far. None of these guys are elite level fighters in the way that Pacman is. His best work is done on the front foot backing his opponents up and firing quick combos, often times leaning over his front foot and giving up height and distance. His power came at a lower weight and is not as evident at SFW. He has great reflexes and gets out the way either by good upper body movement or moving with quick feet. But he tends to move, not lateraaly, but in straight lines. This IMO is made for measure for Pacman’s style.

Secondly, Pacman has improved, not in a general boxing sense, but in what he does best relentlessly coming forward from out of range with quick feet firing fast heavy combos within his own range but with more strength, power and variety, than was evident since the Barrera fight. This makes him a very formidable fighter at what he does.This is something that Guzman will not have faced before. And coupled with my doubts that he will be able to back Pacman up by hurting him in the way he has against previous opponents then I think he may be found, not exposed, but wanting.

Thirdly, I see parallels with people’s opinions that Quintana would outpoint Cotto. What happened? People revised Qintana’s resume and said he was exposed, and that the Julio fight didn’t count for shit. No, Cotto was just too strong and powerful on the night. I think that Pacman is right at the peak of his powers and has developed to such an extent that only an exceptional boxer with real power wll beat him right now. I have my doubts that Guzman is that man.

Obvously, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that, as all of what have written is just that; opinion. But it seems incongruous at best and contraditory at worse to be stating on the one hand that Pacman is P4P top 2, by a distance with the rest of the pack, and then suggesting a guy, within his own weight division, could beat him. But hell that’s what these forums are all about.

I agree with the above. Guzman is good, but he's not good enough for Pacquiao, and he's a very different style of fighter to Marquez.

Yes, there's a case to be made for that. Pacman has undoubtedly improved since the Marquez fight, he's learnt some new tricks, and is working his way in behind the jab more and his body shots are very effective. He is however, just as devastating and aggressive as ever before, just more effective.

However, Guzman is a very fluid and relaxed fighter, with a slightly unorthodox and open stance. I think he will present a style that Pacman won't really have seen before, Guzman has a relaxed look about him, which gives me the impression he is very very confident and smart in the ring. My main question is the differential in power, perhaps as you say, Guzman's shots just won't have the authority to keep Manny honest, and if he can't do that, then he's got big big problems.

As for P4P business, Pacman is rightly either in top spot or just below, based on ACHIEVEMENT. Guzman hasn't achieved anything near what Manny has, and therefore whether or not I believe he could beat Pacman, he doesn't deserve to be rated anywhere in the top 10, not yet.

Yeah, of course based on results Manny is out and out superior - just like Barrera was before the Pacman fight.

But Guzman does has something about him, that makes some think he's headed for the very top.

And for those doubting his hitting power, just take a look at the shocked expression on Barrios' face in the first round; and that was his first real test at a higher weight, against a fighter with one of the best chins around.

Guzman however has a much richer body of work than Quintana. Quintana is a well rounded southpaw and it's to Cotto IMMENSE credit that he stopped him in 5. Guzman was a WBO champ at 122-pounds, absolutely destroyed Agapito Sanchez, skipped feather after Scott Harrison pissed him about and then outpointed the rugged Barrios. That's nothing to scoff at and his ability should serve him well in the elite fights.


Let's not forget, Pac went very quiet after Marquez found a way to avoid his shots and counter him. He was hesitant to come in. Pac forgot about all those combos that did away with Barrera, and this was after he dropped JMM three times.


Who knows what will happen? Pac's power and reflexes are impressive. Meanwhile Guzman is great at rising shots and is a venomous - if not concussive - hitter.

All I can say is, Pac better have his good socks on if he fights Guzman.

Years ago Guzman was a probable(one of 3 presented by MM) opponent for Pacquiao but Roach&Company decided to face some easy guy.

Roach did the same thing with B Pacquiao. Guzman wanted to fight him and Roach turned it down.

In a couple of different occassion, people mentioned to me they spoke to Roach at the gym and he admitted that Guzman would give Pacquiao the toughest fight.

Roach is not in a hurry to have Pacquiao face Guzman. He keeps mentioning MAB and JMM or even Valero.

Most recently, Roach actually mentioned Guzman as an opponent. But then he went on and said he wanted to fight MAB, JMM then Valero! In that order!

About his (Guzman) power...

Well...

Agapito Sanchez said Guzman hits harder than Pacquiao...

Barrios said what most surprised him about Guzman was his power...

I'd put money down on Guzman. . .

Unknown wrote:Years ago Guzman was a probable(one of 3 presented by MM) opponent for Pacquiao but Roach&Company decided to face some easy guy.

Roach did the same thing with B Pacquiao. Guzman wanted to fight him and Roach turned it down.

In a couple of different occassion, people mentioned to me they spoke to Roach at the gym and he admitted that Guzman would give Pacquiao the toughest fight.

Roach is not in a hurry to have Pacquiao face Guzman. He keeps mentioning MAB and JMM or even Valero.

Most recently, Roach actually mentioned Guzman as an opponent. But then he went on and said he wanted to fight MAB, JMM then Valero! In that order!

About his (Guzman) power...

Well...

Agapito Sanchez said Guzman hits harder than Pacquiao...

Barrios said what most surprised him about Guzman was his power...

I'd put money down on Guzman. . .

Aint Guzman been avoided by a lot of fighters for years?....this is why it's taken him so long and he had to move up to corner the big boys.

I even think that Guzman has been holding back in his last few fights just to not show everthing he's got.

Guzman has very thick legs, is fast and punches correctly, that where his power comes from.

Ya.

I can give you an extensive list of people that avoided him...

About legs...

Ya know...

I think that's what helped Pacquiao. I still think Pacquiao has a shaky chin but he started to work on his legs and it helped him out a bit...

When you said Guzman'll stop Pacquiao...

I can def. see that. . .

Guzman's biggest knock is his stamina...

And though he has a more than decent chin...

He seems to be bothered by body shots. . .

The fact that Guzman jumped two weights and was able to hurt Barrios, who is one tough bugger, would indicate that Guzman didn't belong at the lower weights he was fighting at, which would probably explain his stamina issues in the past.

Ha! Talking of people avoiding Guzman, didn't he duck a certain Scot with a liking for the costa del clink?

Taki...

Are you out of your mind?

Guzman would STILL be waiting for the Scott Harrison fight to happen if he didn't move on!

Who has Scott Harrison fought since he was suppose to fight Guzman?

Are ya jokin' around?

Heh...

Unknown wrote:Taki...

Are you out of your mind?

Guzman would STILL be waiting for the Scott Harrison fight to happen if he didn't move on!

Who has Scott Harrison fought since he was suppose to fight Guzman?

Are ya jokin' around?

Heh...

The Guzman fight was good to go when Joan decided to move up a weight. That boy was ducking Super Scot.

It was not "Good to go"...

allegedly/Scott Harrison postponed it a 3rd time and scheduled it for another date and Guzman basically said, "Hell with it" and moved on.

Then what happened to Scott after? He ended up in jail pretty soon...

Who was that other guy he postponed it to? The freakin' man was STRIPPED from the belt...

Come on who has he fought since Nedal?

If you honestly think Guzman ducked him you are freakin'...

Somewhat nuts? I'd like some reasons/pointers why Guzman ducked Harrison! I find this funny...

Harrison hasn't fought in over a year... Been in and out of jail/trouble...

I guess Guzman, JMM and some no-name boxer he was suppose to fight are all ducking Harrison (and everyone else since he hasn't fought in over a year).

Note: Scott Harrison isn't ranked by any of the Belts.

Unknown wrote:It was not "Good to go"...

allegedly allegedly/Scott Harrison postponed it a 3rd time and scheduled it for another date and Guzman basically said, "Hell with it" and moved on.

Then what happened to Scott after? He ended up in jail pretty soon...

Who was that other guy he postponed it to? The freakin' man was STRIPPED from the belt...

Come on who has he fought since Nedal?

If you honestly think Guzman ducked him you are freakin'...

Somewhat nuts? I'd like some reasons/pointers why Guzman ducked Harrison! I find this funny...

Harrison hasn't fought in over a year... Been in and out of jail/trouble...

I guess Guzman, JMM and some no-name boxer he was suppose to fight are all ducking Harrison (and everyone else since he hasn't fought in over a year).

Note: Scott Harrison isn't ranked by any of the Belts.

It was good to go! True it had been postponed before, but finally things were sorted out... and just at that moment Guzman gets cold feet and hot-foots it up a division.

Guzman went the full 12 again last night, against a decent but unspectacular voluntary. His power is clearly not enough to trouble Pacquiao at this weight.

What a spectacle this would be. A great advert for boxing. Two of the toughest guys out there with a reputation for putting it all on the line.

Guzman can bang at superfeather for sure. I couldn't believe how convincingly he beat Barrios, who is as hard as nails. Just becuase Barrios lasted the full course only proves how tough and game Jorge is.

This would be a "white-knuckle" ride of the boxing world.

Unknown wrote:It was not "Good to go"...

allegedly allegedly/Scott Harrison postponed it a 3rd time and scheduled it for another date and Guzman basically said, "Hell with it" and moved on.

Then what happened to Scott after? He ended up in jail pretty soon...

Who was that other guy he postponed it to? The freakin' man was STRIPPED from the belt...

Come on who has he fought since Nedal?

If you honestly think Guzman ducked him you are freakin'...

Somewhat nuts? I'd like some reasons/pointers why Guzman ducked Harrison! I find this funny...

Harrison hasn't fought in over a year... Been in and out of jail/trouble...

I guess Guzman, JMM and some no-name boxer he was suppose to fight are all ducking Harrison (and everyone else since he hasn't fought in over a year).

Note: Scott Harrison isn't ranked by any of the Belts.

Think Taki was having a laugh mr unknown

THEBUTCH wrote:What a spectacle this would be. A great advert for boxing. Two of the toughest guys out there with a reputation for putting it all on the line.

Guzman can bang at superfeather for sure. I couldn't believe how convincingly he beat Barrios, who is as hard as nails. Just becuase Barrios lasted the full course only proves how tough and game Jorge is.

This would be a "white-knuckle" ride of the boxing world.

Having said that, Freitas stopped Barrios, so I think we can conclude that his power, whilst hard enough certainly to get a fighter's respect, but not quite on a par with Acelino at Sr Featherweight.

Yes, I quite agree, but Frietas at Super feather is an elite puncher. Very few will compare favourably with Acelino at 9st 4lbs. Don't forget that Jorge had Freitas in plenty of bother himself a few times before finally being nailed in a classic encounter. Guzman held the upper hand over Barrios for large spells of the fight, and Jorge had to fight for his survival a few times, so Joan obviosuly whacks hard.

Yes, that's true, I'm certainly not saying Guzman cannot punch, but I think he is a guy who 'has a dig' rather than being a concussive one punch KO artist, which is precisely what Freitas was. At the lower weights, Guzman was nuking people but since moving up, those stoppages haven't come.

Guzman might have to outbox Pacquaio to win, because I think that Pacman has a pretty solid chin judging by his form since moving through the weights. Morales never really had him in any trouble, and Marquez and Barrera both nailed him with hard shots and didn't budge him.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, that's true, I'm certainly not saying Guzman cannot punch, but I think he is a guy who 'has a dig' rather than being a concussive one punch KO artist, which is precisely what Freitas was. At the lower weights, Guzman was nuking people but since moving up, those stoppages haven't come.

Guzman might have to outbox Pacquaio to win, because I think that Pacman has a pretty solid chin judging by his form since moving through the weights. Morales never really had him in any trouble, and Marquez and Barrera both nailed him with hard shots and didn't budge him.

They didn't have him in serious trouble, but I'm sure I remember Pacquaio's legs being stiffened a little by Marquez and Morales (the first time round). There's no doubt that his chin is excellent, but he's far from invulnerable. And, I'd have said that Guzman has just a little more pop than both Morales and Marquez.

Pacman was halted in his tracks at times, but he was straight back into his boxing. At no point was he hanging on. Marquez has a bit more pop than his record suggests as well, he has been throwing a lot more into his recent fights, perhaps because his legs aren't what they were at 34, he has to stand and trade more.

Guzman also has a little more than his record suggests, if his hands weren't so damn fragile he'd certainly have a few more stoppages there. I'm sure that there's more to come from him in this department. He strikes me as someone who has to have the really good performances dragged out of him.

As I said, Pacquiao was never that troubled, but I've seen his legs have a little dip on occasion. I'm not saying that Guzman will stop him, but it's not a possibility that should be discarded entirely.

Guzman is an incredibly confident fighter and with good reason. He is one of the most gifted athletes in the game today and could surely stand the heat at the very top. Excellent match potentially but it has to follow Pac v Barrera 2, which regardless of whether Barerra goes safety first IS the fight at 130. Absolutely massive.

From what I've seen of Valero his hands are way too low, Pacquiao would beat him at his own game IMO.

Well Pacquiao against either Valero or Guzman looks even more on the cards as it seems Barrera is going to fight JMM.