Who is the Best P4P Peurto Rican fighter ever?

[pundit]

amazing how, as time goes by, reputations change so much

30 years ago ...if you asked this question- most people would've said Jose Torres. Carlos Ortiz back then was considered a hot and cold fighter whose best wins came against smaller fighters: Elorde-Laguna-Ramos etc.

my vote goes to Felix Trinidad, Gomez, Torres, Benitez, Ortiz, Dejesus

Good point. Torres shold be top 5. Benitez, Ortiz, Gomez, Torres, Tito, Torres, Dejesus, Rosario.

[theone]

Good point. Torres shold be top 5. Benitez, Ortiz, Gomez, Torres, Tito, Torres, Dejesus, Rosario.

Torres doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame nor on this particular top 5 either. He held the lightheavyweight title for barely two years and successfully defended it 3 times. His only wins of note was a victory over another undeserving HOFamer, Willie Pastrano and an arguable entrant in Bobo Olsen, who happened to be way past his prime.
Then he ends up losing his title to a true HOFamer in Dick Tiger who himself was a bit passed his prime when the fight took place.

Trinidad seems to be getting really underrated here. On accomplishment alone, the only two guys you can even make an argument for being greater than him is Gomez and Benitez.

[silkov]

Duran when he was 21? Sure. Duran didn't peak until five or six years later, when he started adding more boxing to his game. If DeJesus had beaten the Duran who fought him in the rubber match, that would've been something. Duane Bobick beat a 21-year-old Larry Holmes. Marty Marshall beat a 21-year-old (?) Sonny Liston. Tiger Brown beat a 21-year-old Archie Moore. Sure, Duran was already a great lightweight at age 21 and a champion, but he hadn't yet become the all-time great that he would be five or ten years later.

I'm not talking about Liston/Moore though, Duran at 21 had already been fighting 5 years as a pro and while not at his 'peak' was still a helluva fighter... you cant really compare him to Moore and Liston at that age... I dont see Ortiz beating even the 21 yearold Duran... I've seen lots of fights of both Ortiz and Dejesus and though Ortiz has the more impressive record on paper I think Dejesus was the better boxer and would have beaten Ortiz had they fought... the opponent who troubled Ortiz the most was Laguna and Dejesus had a simular style to Laguna, comparable speed and skill but much better punch power...

[pundit]

Good point. Torres shold be top 5. Benitez, Ortiz, Gomez, Torres, Tito, Torres, Dejesus, Rosario.

Torres doesnt deserve to be in the hall of fame nor on this particular top 5 either. He held the lightheavyweight title for barely two years and successfully defended it 3 times. His only wins of note was a victory over another undeserving HOFamer, Willie Pastrano and an arguable entrant in Bobo Olsen, who happened to be way past his prime.
Then he ends up losing his title to a true HOFamer in Dick Tiger who himself was a bit passed his prime when the fight took place.

Hmmm.... somehow this looks still like a rather impressive record to me. 2:1 against 3 HOFers.

[Borinken25]

What about Cocoa Kid? Alfredo Escalera deserves to be mention.

[JAHamilton77]

What about Cocoa Kid? Alfredo Escalera deserves to be mention.

I had Cocoa Kid on my list of possibilities, but seems like I remember someone saying there were questions about his true ethnicity. I am not saying there is, because I dont know, just seems like someone told me this once.

[JAHamilton77]

How about the 2 undefeated Puerto Rican stars today (Cotto & Calderon) if each gets a true marquee win on their resume and fills out with a few more solid wins, do you think they could crack a PR top 10?

[Borinken25]

What about Cocoa Kid? Alfredo Escalera deserves to be mention.

I had Cocoa Kid on my list of possibilities, but seems like I remember someone saying there were questions about his true ethnicity. I am not saying there is, because I dont know, just seems like someone told me this once.

You are correct nobody is sure of his true ethnicity, but the Ring Magazine listed him not too long ago on a list of great Puerto Rican fighters. Also Boxrec.com, and http://www.cyberboxingzone.com (Born: Louis Hardwick, Jan 17, 1913, Puerto Rico Height: 5-10).

[elmersalsa]

I pick:

1. Wilfrfedo Gomez
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Wilfred Benitez
4. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
5. Esteban DeJesus
6. Wilfredo Vazquez
7. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
8. Hector "Macho" Camacho
9. Pedro Montanez
10. Samuel Serrano

Was Cocoa Kid Puerto Rican???

[elmersalsa]

Oh man, How could I forget Sixto Escobar???

1. Wilfredo Gomez
2. Carlos Ortiz
3. Wilfred Benitez
4. Felix "Tito" Trinidad
5. Sixto Escobar
6. Esteban DeJesus
7. Wilfredo Vazquez
8. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
9. Hector "Macho" Camacho: had all the tools to be the greatest LATIN EVER.
10. Pedro Montanez

[vagabundo55]

It's a very difficult pick. I'd have to go with Gomez but a strong case can be made for all the fighters in the poll.

[vagabundo55]

It's a very difficult pick. I'd have to go with Gomez but a strong case can be made for all the fighters in the poll.

Not Trinidad. The only people who voted for him are the nuthuggers who check this forum out when there's no action in the General Discussion forum.

At first I didn't realize his name was on the poll to be quite honest when I posted that I only remembered Benitez, Gomez and Ortiz were on the poll. Those are the three fighters I was thinking about when I posted that. I probably forgot Trinidad simply because I thought about who the best of those three were for a minute or two. It is after all a difficult pick when it comes to those three. As for Trinidad, I do believe he is in the top 10 fighters of all-time when it comes to Puerto Rican fighters, but Benitez, Gomez and Ortiz, those fighters belong in top 10 all-time lists for not only Puerto Rican fighters, but for their weigth classes, except for maybe Ortiz, but that's only because there has been so many great fighters in the weightclasses he fought at.

[vagabundo55]

Actually, about Ortiz, if I made a list of lightweights, i'd probably add him, but if he wasn't added on to other people's list I would understand if it was a good top 10 list.

[vagabundo55]

1. Roberto Duran
2. Benny Leonard
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Pernell Whitaker
5. Ike Williams
6. Barney Ross
7. Alexis Arguello
8. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
9. Julio Cesar Chavez
10. Joe Gans
11. Lou Ambers
12. Tony Canzoneri
13. Carlos Ortiz
14. Jack Blackburn
15. Beau Jack
16. Bob Montgomery
17. Shane Mosley
18. Dave Holly
19. Joe Brown
20. Nicolino Loche
21. Bob Montgomery
22. Esteban DeJesus
23. Lew Jenkins
24. Lew Tendler
25. Oscar de la Hoya

Some people might want to kill me for having Gans, Blackburn and Holly so low, and Mayweather and Mosley so high, but they can suck my cock.

Those are the type of lists i'd respect even if they don't have Ortiz in the top 10.

[theone]

Very good list Decagon. Am i right to assume this is based mainly on accomplishment?

[elmersalsa]

Carlos Ortiz, the great lightweight champion, should be in anyone's list in the top 10 greatest lightweights of all time.

[theone]

So does that mean you believe Benny Leonard would have defeated Armstrong head to head? Or that Dave Holly would have defeated Oscar Delahoya?

[Sheera2000]

Don't forget Jose "Monon" Gonzalez who has wins over Luis Rodriguez, Florentino Fernandez, Vicente Rondon, Hurricane Carter, Bobby Cassidy and a bunch of other good fighters.

Incidentally, his record is not complete. It is my understanding that promoterRafito Cedeno hired him to teach an undefeated upstart with an attitude a lesson and although retired for some time, Monon travelled to Venezuela and beat the prospect blue. I have no more info, but if someone finds that fight it deserves to be added.

This fight is in you tube. Florentino vs Jose Monon Gonzalez, is his daughter writing Bechy Gonzalez. He died 24 jul 13. 73 yrs. :(

[CNorkusJr]

Carlos Ortiz today. 2012 New York State Boxing HOF Induction.

[King Carlos]

1. Ortiz
2. Gomez
3. Benitez
4. Montanez
5. Basora

Wouldn't have a problem with someone putting Tito in there, though. He'd be next on my list.