BoxRec

I can tell that it's still a sore spot for Aussies that Nelson ultimately retired Fenech and in a very ugly manner, but go back and read all of the articles from the time of they're first fight...it all speaks pretty clear about Nelson's illness!!!

>>>he was just beaten, and beaten good to. and he knows it<<<

Funny...it doesn't say that in the record books...in fact when looking at the record books I see a D 12 and LKO 8 in Fenech's bouts with Nelson...wow...you must be right...Nelson must have knew it...must have been why he gave Fenech an immediate rematch and retired him, but I don't have to rely on record books...I saw the fights...the first was a very, very close fight that Fenech seemed to have the edge in and in the second Fenech took a beating that ruined his career...I'd say advatage Nelson!!!

barry wrote:I loved watching Fenech fight. He was very, very exciting and had heart galore, but his record just is not that impressive, especially when compared to someone like Lopez.

Thing is...Lopez was simply too powerful for Fenech. Fenech was a monster at 118, or so it seemed...he never really fought anyone at that weight who could really test him...same would go at 122, but moving up to his last weight at 126, well as was demonstrated...he was not so durable and going in against one of the very hardest hitting featherweights of all time...a truly solid featherweight...well as the old saying goes...a good bigger man will almost always beat a good smaller man!

As to Nelson...it was pretty well documented that Nelson had been dealing with malaria and as to whether Fenech had a cold in the second, well before the fight Fenech stated that he was 100% ready and 100% fit going in, but afterward it was said that he had a cold...it was known tjhat Nelson had malaria before the first fight and instead of post-poning the fight like he should have Nelson went on through with it and he still put up a fair performance for a man with that type of illness.

As I said earlier I edge towards Lopez overall in this but I think youre underrating Fenech a huge amount here, to say that Torres and Ayala and Haffey were as good as Fenech is to ignore how good Fenech was, Mccrory, Zaragoza and Villiasana were all very good fighters, you also forgot Callejas, who was an excellent boxer that Fenech beat... Villasama gave a peak Nelson two tough fights and we all know what a toughie Zaragoza was... these guys measure up very well with most of Dannys opponents... many of Lopezs opponents were weak, but Dannys vulnerbility often made them look better than they were to be frank... Ayala was hardly a ko puncher yet had Danny in all sorts of trouble in their fight... O'grady was just a kid when Danny fought him and was hardly an all time great in his prime, Haffey was tough but limited and about half the size of Fenech, Oliveres was past his best, and Chacon beat Danny by fighting the sort of fight that Fenech would have fought against him, using pressure and crowding tactics to out fight and wear down Lopez.... all in all Lopez and Fenechs opposition compares fairly equally and Jeff only looked vulnerble in his 2nd fight with Nelson while Lopez looked vulnerble in many of his fights against opposition that fenech would have had an easier time with... would Ayala have had Fenech in trouble for instance?... I think not, Jeff would have had a pretty easy time against him imo... and I could state a number of instances where Lopez struggled against fighters I think wouldnt have troubled Fenech....
imo Fenech was without doubt the better fighter p4p and he has to be given a chance against Lopez....

barry wrote:Fenech was the IBF trinket in his eighth fight, but you failed to mention that the opponent in that fight was one, Satoshi Shingaki, a non-entity with an 8-1-1 record...nothing to brag about there...he then won the WBC trinket against Samart Payakaroon, a lot better fighter than Satoshi Shingaki, but still nothing special and then Fenech won his last trinket against Victor Callejas, a pretty solid fighter, but none were actual "world champions" just trinket holders, so in reality...Fenech never was an actual world champion...just an abc trinket holder.

Lopez' record is a hell of a lot more solid than Fenech's. Among the fighters Lopez fought who were on par with Fench...Bobby Chacon, Ruben Olivares, David Kotey and Mike Ayala are all on Fenech's level and other's that are not far off would be Octavio Gomez, Art Hafey, Sean O'Grady and Jose Torres.

Fenech's biggest wins were against Daniel Zaragoza and Marcos Villasana, but the rest, well they were all fights that Fenech should have won...nothing real special there and Fenech had a cold in the second Nelson fight...Nelson had malaria in the first...I think Malaria out-duels a cold. Being stopped by Calvin Grove is pretty weak and if the light hitting Grove can get the job done I guarantee that the brutal punching Lopez could!

A third fight with Nelson would have looked much like the second one, but Nelson ruined Fenech so much in the second that a third bout would have been like sending a lamb to slaughter.

Fenech was a solid brawler who dominated average opposition. The only true "big" fights that Fenech had, well he drew in a very close bout that I thought he should have won on points and he was absolutely destroyed in the second. Fenech simply was not able to rise to the occasion, which Lopez did on a number of occasions.

I don't agree with you here - On a number of points -

You list Lopez having defeated the following....which you suggest are better compeition then Fenech defeated (those being...Bobby Chacon, Ruben Olivares, David Kotey and Mike Ayala ).

Facts are he fought a washed up version of Ruben Olivares...who had lost 2 of 4 fights heading in...and was 3 YEARS past being KO'd from his BW title...which was cleary Olivares best weight).

As for Bobby Chacon.....Chacon KO'd him in 9rds...and Chacon was a young 23 at the time ...

Mike Ayala - Are you kidding me - He was fun to watch but as for talent...plenty of Fenech's resume would have beat him.....Ayala chin was weak....he could be outboxed or out banged...can you name one big win he ever had??...He lost every time he went up in competiton....Though he did almost beat Lopez....(outside of Lopez perhaps an average Nicky Perez...was his biggest win).

As for Kotey......he was solid....but I've often thought overrated.


Back to Lopez and Fenech at FW....Fenech was never beaten nor stopped at FW or below...(not sure if he was ever kd??..perhaps once)....Danny was stopped 4 or 5 times...

Fenech clealry beat Azumah in their first fight....and lost to the HOF in their second.....(not really destoryed however...as the fight was close on all three cards at the time of stoppage).

barry wrote:I can tell that it's still a sore spot for Aussies that Nelson ultimately retired Fenech and in a very ugly manner, but go back and read all of the articles from the time of they're first fight...it all speaks pretty clear about Nelson's illness!!!

BS! - While Nelson did suggest he sufferd from malaria way BEFORE the first Fenech fight....he was cleared to fight and had an excellent training camp going into the fight........It was not as if Nelson HAD malaria during the first Fenech fight.

Facts are facts....

>>>but I think youre underrating Fenech a huge amount here, to say that Torres and Ayala and Haffey were as good as Fenech<<<

I did not say that...I said Ayala was, but I said the other two were nearing Fenech and they were, jeez, I wish people could just pay a little attention to what they read before commenting wrongly on something.

Face it...Fenech beat a steady diet of average fighters, there were no greats, nor were there any near greats on his list and after he moved up to 126 he was not the same kind of fighter who could just take punches without worry as featherweights hit a lor harder than bantams...as Fenech would learn...not to mention that he was stopped by two very light hitting fighters in Grove and Holiday and when he really stepped up to face a true great, well we saw what happened...his career was ended...and his chin, as good as it was at 188 and 122, simply would not be able to stand up to a bomber like Lopez...facts are facts!!!


>>>While Nelson did suffer from malaria way BEFORE the first Fenech fight....he was cleared to fight and had an excellent training camp going into the fight........It was not as if Nelson HAD malaria during the first Fenech fight.<<<

It is just as relevant as you trying to claim that Fenech had a cold when Nelson destroyed him, but the big difference between the Nelson's malaria and the cold is that Nelson's was verified and documneted while Fenech's claim of a cold was just bullshit...trying to savce face for the embarrassing beating that he took from Nelson the rematch. Also, for the record, which you probably fail to realize...Malaria is an illness that effects a person for up to nine months...it's not like a typical flu, or a typical cold which lasts 7, or 8 days...no malaria can last for months!

Also...for the record...Nelson did not have Malaria "way" before the bout...in fact, Nelson had no symptoms of Malaria when he fought Daniel Mustapha only three months prior to his bout with Fenech, so you see, the Malaria fact is very relevant...even though you might wish that it wasn't!!! FACTS are FACTS!!!

barry wrote:>>>but I think youre underrating Fenech a huge amount here, to say that Torres and Ayala and Haffey were as good as Fenech<<<I>>>While Nelson did suffer from malaria way BEFORE the first Fenech fight....he was cleared to fight and had an excellent training camp going into the fight........It was not as if Nelson HAD malaria during the first Fenech fight.<<<

It is just as relevant as you trying to claim that Fenech had a cold when Nelson destroyed him, but the big difference between the Nelson's malaria and the cold is that Nelson's was verified and documneted while Fenech's claim of a cold was just bullshit...trying to savce face for the embarrassing beating that he took from Nelson the rematch. Also, for the record, which you probably fail to realize...Malaria is an illness that effects a person for up to nine months...it's not like a typical flu, or a typical cold which lasts 7, or 8 days...no malaria can last for months!

Also...for the record...Nelson did not have Malaria "way" before the bout...in fact, Nelson had no symptoms of Malaria when he fought Daniel Mustapha only three months prior to his bout with Fenech, so you see, the Malaria fact is very relevant...even though you might wish that it wasn't!!! FACTS are FACTS!!!

Barry...First off settle down a little bit...You come off like a angry women.

Furthermore...This fight would take place at FW.....Fenech was NEVER stopped at FW or below ...That Fenech was stopped at LW or JLW late in his career.... is too a large degree not relevant at all to this discussion....Yet the FACT that Danny Lopez was stopped at FW....In fact 4 or 5 times...and knocked down many more.....is very relevant. (since these two would be fighting at said FW division).

Additionally Fenech fought better competition then did Lopez. Lopez feasted on guys that weren't anywhere near Top-50 guys in their division...The majority of Lopez first 20 some fights had losing records....Fenech was fighting championship and contender rated fighters since his 5th pro fight (for the most part....with a tune-up type fight thrown in here or there).

As for Nelson not having malaria 3 months prior during his fight with Daniel Mustapha.......first off you don't know that....(secondly....IF infected....those with rescources are easliy treated (at hospitals) with chloroquine...and recovery is less then 3 weeks...... Azumah passed his physical with flying colors heading into the first Fenech fight.....his training camp was great.....other then an elbow issue that was bothering him some (but not too bad.....all fighters have such dings)..

Furthermore Azumah Nelson has only ever CLAIMED he had malaria prior to the first Fenech fight.......He has never said "where" he was treated for malaria...which he would have had to have been treated.....when asked....In fact in one interview...he said he wasn't treated...(which is complete BS!...meaning he simply had the flu 2 months prior to the fight and it cleared up on its own in 2 days)......In another interview he has claimed he was on the drip just 3 days prior to the fight. Officals in Vegas say they know for certain that is not true....Azumah was not being treated 3 days before the fight....SO that leaves us with what??....He either never had malaria...or had it long before the bout took place... several months prior if at all...

Your assertion that his malaria was documented is well.... BS......The first anyone ever heard about him having malaria was AFTER the fight (he did not declare this prior to the fight to ANY boxing officals...which is MANDATED).....Facts are Facts....Azumah never said he had malaria until AFTER their first fight! It was NEVER documented....nor was there any knowledge or indication PRIOR to their first fight that he had malaria....(he simply asserted this after the fight took place).

The Professor was always a class act and I loved watching him fight. You clearly try to come off as someone with little class.

Lastly your list of a washed up / blown up R. Olivares....M. Ayala (you had to be kidding here) and Bobby Chacon (who KO'd Danny at FW!)...as evidence that Danny would beat Fenech (or faced better competition)...is flat out laughable.

I do play attention to what is written and to say that Torres, Haffey and Ayala are in the same class as Fenech is just plain silly to be honest, what did Ayala do in his career besides the Lopez fight???
The fact is that Lopez fought a string of fairly mediocre fighters when he was champ and managed to have wars with all of them, thats not really a sign of great ability... Lopez had a great heart and punch but other than that he was pretty limited as a fighter and vulnerble, far more so than Fenech, who was by far the better all round fighter.
Also Barry why do you always get heated up in these discussions?... you seem to think if someone disagrees with you its because they havent read the posts or theyre dim or something, we actually agree here on most points except that Lopezs opposition was much better than Fenechs, which is just not true... I'm a huge fan of both fighters but if youre debating a point like this you should be concentrating on ability of the fighters involved rather than how much you like that fighter... also you shouldnt take it personally when people dont agree with you... sometimes you just have to agree to disagree, the world would be a much better place if we could all learn to do that... 8)

Regarding the malaria, Nelson must have been affected by the illness when he fought Fenech in their first fight, he was notably sluggish, but having said that if he was in the 100% grip of the illness he never would have been able to get in the ring, let alone take Fenech the distance in such a tough fight... Nelson probably had the illness a month or so before the fight and hadnt recovered totally by the time of the fight, having said that it was still a great performance by Fenech that night, even at less than 100% Nelson was a hell of a fighter....

>>>>Fenech was fighting championship and contender rated fighters since his 5th pro fight<

AHHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAAHA...Wayne Mulholland...ranked...AHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAH!!!!

Tell you what genius, if you can find one top 20 ranked fighter in his first 11 fights I'll agree with you, but we both know you cannot do that. I have the rankings if you need some help...fighting championship and contender rated fighters in jhis 5th fight...LOL!!!

Also, If you think Fenech faced better opposition than Lopez then all I can say is you need to do a hell of a lot of research, but then again...perhaps you think Greg Richardson is better than Bobby Chacon, or that Victor Callejas is better than Salvador Sanches, or that Zaragoza is better than Olivares, etc...ect...need I go on...because I can?

It's funny, you try to disclaim the fighters that Lopez faced, of whom you clearly know nothing about, yet I bet you probably try to claim that Zarate was near his prime when Fenech fought him...LOL!!!

Man, this forum has really, really went down hill over the last few months in terms of quality!

>>>As for Nelson not having malaria 3 months prior during his fight with Daniel Mustapha.......first off you don't know that<<<

Oh yes I do know that!!! Nelson's malaria was talked about...get the fights, or actually get the interviews leading up to the fights and read some magazine articles leading up to the fight...have you actually ever even seen the fights to begin with? I'm having doubts...especially if you think that Fenech was a hands-down, clear cut winner in the first...that sounds like someone who has just read a couple of overly biased articles in favor of Fenech because if you had actually seen the fight you certainly would not be claiming that Fenech beat Nelson handily, but then again...you think Fenech was facing rated opposition by his fifth fight...LOL!!!

>>>you seem to think if someone disagrees with you its because they havent read the posts or theyre dim or something<<

I don't give a shit if someone disagrees with me...what I don't l;ike is when someone half-ass reads something and then claims that I stated something that I didn't, which is what you have now done twice!

>>> I do play attention to what is written and to say that Torres, Haffey and Ayala are in the same class as Fenech is just plain silly to be honest<<<

Obviously you clearly do not pay attention...I clearly pointed it out to you that I never said what you claim, yet here you are yapping the exact same clueless nonsense. Read the thread and then respond!!! What I get heated about is people yapping incorrect nonsense simply because they did not take the time to read what I said, or simply because they cannot come up with anything better than a lie. As I have already told you once, I never said that Hafey and Torres were as good as Fenech, I said they were not far off and they are not far off, if you do not realize that then you to need to do a hell of a lot more research...and for the record, Hafey was more successful against top competition than Fenech ever was. Fenech made a career out of beating B level fighters and he looked real good in doing it, which A level fighters are suppose to look good when fighting obviously weaker opposition.



When Fenech truly stepped up we saw what happened...Nelson absolutely ruined him and afterwards the supposed Iron-jawed Fenech was stopped by two of the lightest hitting fighters in history in Grove and Holiday. Sorry, but taking solid shots against weak opposition does not an iron jaw make and really...can you present any examples of fights that would warrant Fenech as having such an iron jaw...what are those fights that demonstrate that titanium jaw of his...Greg Richardson...LOL? Can you present something, or will it be more made up nonsense?

Fenech is now claimed as being a three division champion when the reality of the issue is that he is not even a one division champion...he was a belt holder, a trinket owner who fought weaker opposition in order to look better than he really was...that is unless you consider the Greg Richardson's of the world to be elite fighters like meade, sorry, but I see them for what they really are and I don't let idolism cloud my judgment.

Sure a good fighter can look great against weak opposition...what I look into is how a fighter handles top notch, A level opposition and when facing A level opposition Jeff Fenech looked very ordinary, in fact he was spanked in quite brutal fashion! Sorry, but holding three ABC belts does not make one a great fighter, especially when the belts were won against the kind of opposition that Fenech faced.

Here's a good challenege for you meade...are you up to it?

Explain how and why Fenech's competition is so much better than that of Lopez...give of some examples and comparisions of they're oppsotion...can you do that...or are you just full of empty words with no substance to back it? But remember, there are many here that truly do know about the competition of both fighters, so made up bullshit and guess-work just won't cut it, but here's a big chance to prove me wrong...lets see how good of a response you can form on the two and then I'll top it, or try to anyway!!!

barry wrote:>>>>Fenech was fighting championship and contender rated fighters since his 5th pro fight<AHHAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAHAAHA>>>As for Nelson not having malaria 3 months prior during his fight with Daniel Mustapha.......first off you don't know that<<<Oh>>>you seem to think if someone disagrees with you its because they havent read the posts or theyre dim or something<<

I don't give a shit if someone disagrees with me...what I don't l;ike is when someone half-ass reads something and then claims that I stated something that I didn't, which is what you have now done twice!

>>> I do play attention to what is written and to say that Torres, Haffey and Ayala are in the same class as Fenech is just plain silly to be honest<<<

Obviously you clearly do not pay attention...I clearly pointed it out to you that I never said what you claim, yet here you are yapping the exact same clueless nonsense. Read the thread and then respond!!! What I get heated about is people yapping incorrect nonsense simply because they did not take the time to read what I said, or simply because they cannot come up with anything better than a lie. As I have already told you once, I never said that Hafey and Torres were as good as Fenech, I said they were not far off and they are not far off, if you do not realize that then you to need to do a hell of a lot more research...and for the record, Hafey was more successful against top competition than Fenech ever was. Fenech made a career out of beating B level fighters and he looked real good in doing it, which A level fighters are suppose to look good when fighting obviously weaker opposition.



When Fenech truly stepped up we saw what happened...Nelson absolutely ruined him and afterwards the supposed Iron-jawed Fenech was stopped by two of the lightest hitting fighters in history in Grove and Holiday. Sorry, but taking solid shots against weak opposition does not an iron jaw make and really...can you present any examples of fights that would warrant Fenech as having such an iron jaw...what are those fights that demonstrate that titanium jaw of his...Greg Richardson...LOL? Can you present something, or will it be more made up nonsense?

Fenech is now claimed as being a three division champion when the reality of the issue is that he is not even a one division champion...he was a belt holder, a trinket owner who fought weaker opposition in order to look better than he really was...that is unless you consider the Greg Richardson's of the world to be elite fighters like meade, sorry, but I see them for what they really are and I don't let idolism cloud my judgment.

Sure a good fighter can look great against weak opposition...what I look into is how a fighter handles top notch, A level opposition and when facing A level opposition Jeff Fenech looked very ordinary, in fact he was spanked in quite brutal fashion! Sorry, but holding three ABC belts does not make one a great fighter, especially when the belts were won against the kind of opposition that Fenech faced.

Barry you are rambling fool -

First, everyone on the PPV (including all announcers) thought Fenech had clearly won....the whole Vegas crowd booed the decision for several minutes afterwards (undercard fight of Tyson - Ruddock....I WAS THERE!) - Hell even Don King...Azumah's man....said Fenech won the fight....and told the crowd a rematch would happen....

Additonally you are LYING plain and simple regarding ANY NOTION that it was known that Azumah had malaria PRIOR to their first fight!....Azumah mentioned this only AFTER the fight took place (and did so in the ring to the announcer).

You have shown yourself to be a 100% liar.....Azumah himself admits he NEVER mentioned anything about having malaria prior to the fight taking place......(and the reality is IF he did have malaria it was long before their second fight...and all signs were completely gone)....Yet your claim that everyone knew Azumah had malaria prior to the fight...or that it was a known fact.....is utter BS.....and shows you can't handle a grown up discussion without making sh*t up....and yelling like an angry women while doing so...

I love talking boxing.....and discussing all aspects of it.....but I don't waste my time with children or liars......you are without question the latter....and act like the former quite often to boot....

Lastly you keep ignoring the reality that Lopez Vs Fenech would have fought at FW.....At FW and below Fenech was NEVER stopped .....only when he moved up to LW and JLW.....On the other hand Lopez was STOPPED 4 or 5 times at FW........and yes Fenech faced better competition (but nice silly strawman argument regarding Zarate).

I'm done with you.....

Fenech's punch resistance started to wane at 126 / 130 which is no surprise, the guy started pro at flyweight He would have beaten Lopez by late stoppage. Not much doubt in my mind about that. Conditioning and relentless pressure

barry wrote:I loved watching Fenech fight. He was very, very exciting and had heart galore, but his record just is not that impressive, especially when compared to someone like Lopez.

Thing is...Lopez was simply too powerful for Fenech. Fenech was a monster at 118, or so it seemed...he never really fought anyone at that weight who could really test him...same would go at 122, but moving up to his last weight at 126, well as was demonstrated...he was not so durable and going in against one of the very hardest hitting featherweights of all time...a truly solid featherweight...well as the old saying goes...a good bigger man will almost always beat a good smaller man!

As to Nelson...it was pretty well documented that Nelson had been dealing with malaria and as to whether Fenech had a cold in the second, well before the fight Fenech stated that he was 100% ready and 100% fit going in, but afterward it was said that he had a cold...it was known tjhat Nelson had malaria before the first fight and instead of post-poning the fight like he should have Nelson went on through with it and he still put up a fair performance for a man with that type of illness.

I read that before the second Fenech-Nelson fight Fenech had a rib injury he sustained in sparring with Kostya Tszyu, I will try to find were i read it.
That being said i think that Nelson was simply the better fighter in there second fight and Fenech thought he would just fight the same fight as the first time.
I think both Fenech and Nelson are a step above Lopez and would beat him inside the distance.

Ben---Well stated, though I have to disagree about Fenech beating Lopez...Danny just had too much fire-power for the smaller Fenech to withstand and was more durable at the higher weight.

Meade---Blah...blah...blah...I didn't figure you had what it took to give forth a solid comparison of the opposition Fenech and Lopez faced...I guess it is rather difficult when a person knows very little about said fighters, but more importantly...they're opposition...oh well...maybe one day !

Lopez would beat Fenech, most likely by late KO in a war. Fenech`s downfall would be his aggression, as coming in a straight line towards Lopez is suicide for any fighter. Fenech doesn`t have the firepower to get Danny out of there, and he isn`t going to outbox him either as that wasn`t his style. And if Mario Martinez could drop him like a ton of bricks courtesy of one left hook, I would hate to see what Danny`s atomic rigt hand would do to him after it lands flush, which it inevitably will.

And whoever it is that said Chacon outhustled and pressured Lopez couldn`t be more wrong. First off, no one and I do mean NO ONE outhustled Danny who was one of the most overbearing attackers I have ever seen. Chacon beat Lopez by giving him angles, boxing beautifully and countering Danny with the right hand repeatedly during the fight. Either way one looks at it, this is one matchup that does not favour Fenech.

The Raging B(_)LL wrote:Lopez would beat Fenech, most likely by late KO in a war. Fenech`s downfall would be his aggression, as coming in a straight line towards Lopez is suicide for any fighter. Fenech doesn`t have the firepower to get Danny out of there, and he isn`t going to outbox him either as that wasn`t his style. And if Mario Martinez could drop him like a ton of bricks courtesy of one left hook, I would hate to see what Danny`s atomic rigt hand would do to him after it lands flush, which it inevitably will.

And whoever it is that said Chacon outhustled and pressured Lopez couldn`t be more wrong. First off, no one and I do mean NO ONE outhustled Danny who was one of the most overbearing attackers I have ever seen. Chacon beat Lopez by giving him angles, boxing beautifully and countering Danny with the right hand repeatedly during the fight. Either way one looks at it, this is one matchup that does not favour Fenech.

Couldn't disagree more. At FW Fenech chin was more then solid ...That he was droppd by Martinez doesn't mean anything other then good fighters get dropped once in a while. .... (Lopez was dropped numerous times...and KO'd / TKO'd 4 or 5 times at FW).....Fenech was never stopped at FW or below.......Fenech got up to beat Martinez....by taking the fight to him the rest of the way.....(Hell and Martinez could bang....He had iron-chinned Azumah in a world of hurt....and lost a SD to him at FW).

Fenech was physically stronger and his workrate would earn him a Dec if he didn't stop Lopez late (which I think he would).

But agreeing to disagree is what makes this forum.....

"Little Red" wins this . Danny wins it while wearing his head dress when fighting Fenech, never taking it off after the intros.

>>>Fenech was never stopped at FW or below<<

No but he was stopped by Calvin Grove, who hit like a flyweight and Phillip Holiday, who hit like a bantamweight...what say's you on that...that Grove and Holiday were really one-punch knockout artists...LOL!

One big difference between Fenech and Lopez, when Lopez was dropped he got up to win in spectacular fashion...when Fenech was dropped, by fairly top rated opposition, he folded...go figure!!

Fenech had a chin that was built out of light-hitting punchers. He was tough, but a great chin...well...the actual evidence and facts from the bouts in his career would suggest otherwise...I mean, how man granite chinned fighters get stopped by light-weight hitters like Grove and Holiday...really?

meade95 wrote: Couldn't disagree more. At FW Fenech chin was more then solid ...That he was droppd by Martinez doesn't mean anything other then good fighters get dropped once in a while. .... (Lopez was dropped numerous times...and KO'd / TKO'd 4 or 5 times at FW).....Fenech was never stopped at FW or below.......Fenech got up to beat Martinez....by taking the fight to him the rest of the way.....(Hell and Martinez could bang....He had iron-chinned Azumah in a world of hurt....and lost a SD to him at FW).

Fenech was physically stronger and his workrate would earn him a Dec if he didn't stop Lopez late (which I think he would).

But agreeing to disagree is what makes this forum.....

Actually, Fenech did not take the fight to Martinez after getting dropped, rather he backed off and only occasionally engaged him for the next few rounds. Only in the last round did he really take the fight to Martinez again. I also disagree with your assertion that Fenech was physically stronger than Lopez, I never saw anyone outhustle Danny and I doubt Fenech would be the one to do it. Your entitled to your opinion, but we will agree to disagree on this.

The Raging B(_)LL wrote:

meade95 wrote: Couldn't disagree more. At FW Fenech chin was more then solid ...That he was droppd by Martinez doesn't mean anything other then good fighters get dropped once in a while. .... (Lopez was dropped numerous times...and KO'd / TKO'd 4 or 5 times at FW).....Fenech was never stopped at FW or below.......Fenech got up to beat Martinez....by taking the fight to him the rest of the way.....(Hell and Martinez could bang....He had iron-chinned Azumah in a world of hurt....and lost a SD to him at FW).

Fenech was physically stronger and his workrate would earn him a Dec if he didn't stop Lopez late (which I think he would).

But agreeing to disagree is what makes this forum.....

Actually, Fenech did not take the fight to Martinez after getting dropped, rather he backed off and only occasionally engaged him for the next few rounds. Only in the last round did he really take the fight to Martinez again. I also disagree with your assertion that Fenech was physically stronger than Lopez, I never saw anyone outhustle Danny and I doubt Fenech would be the one to do it. Your entitled to your opinion, but we will agree to disagree on this.

I just rewatched the tape (of Fenech Vs Martinez) and we are seeing different things....Hell Fenech won on the score cards 120-109, 117-111 and 116-112 (even with Martinez's 10-8 6th round).....Fenech also threw over 80 punches in the 8th, 9th and 10th and 12th rounds...(how is that not taking the fight to someone?)....

Additionally if one remembers Fenech broke his right hand in this fight to boot (his long knuckles issues)...and retired after this fight......before coming back a year and a half or so later....(to take on Azumah).

And again we are talking about a tough guy in Martinez who took Azumah Nelson to a SD loss...and fought him to another 12 round war before being TKO'd......

It was also Fenech's first fight at JLW.......Fenech's workrate in his prime was better (more volume) then Danny's....

It would have been one hell of an exciting match-up between two guys who loved to bring it none the less......but I firmly believe it would be Fenech's fight...

Take it easy...

barry wrote:>>>Fenech was never stopped at FW or below<<

No but he was stopped by Calvin Grove, who hit like a flyweight and Phillip Holiday, who hit like a bantamweight...what say's you on that...that Grove and Holiday were really one-punch knockout artists...LOL!

One big difference between Fenech and Lopez, when Lopez was dropped he got up to win in spectacular fashion...when Fenech was dropped, by fairly top rated opposition, he folded...go figure!!

Fenech had a chin that was built out of light-hitting punchers. He was tough, but a great chin...well...the actual evidence and facts from the bouts in his career would suggest otherwise...I mean, how man granite chinned fighters get stopped by light-weight hitters like Grove and Holiday...really?

Utter nonsense, not supported by the facts. Fenech was dropped in the first round of fight against Samart Payakarun (WBC juniorfeather title fight). He got up and proceeded to hammer the guy (the same guy that won the title from Lupe Pintor although to be fair Pintor was at the end of a long career)

Then Look up Victor Callejas (Fenech's WBC featherweight title fight victim) and especially what he did to Loris Stecca in with his power punching display (specifically look up the reports of the day that whilst exaggerated, stated that Callejas lifted Stecca off the ground with a left hook), then look up what effect that same power had on Fenech (ie it didn't budge him)

Yes the light hitting Calvin Grove ko'd Fenech. Now go look up the reports where Grove was offered a Fenech fight in the late 80's and report back on Grove's response. I think you'll find the answer will be something along the lines of Grove saying "are you serious? you want to see me killed?"

Fenech started his pro career as a flyweight. Getting ko'd a couple of times at 130-135 at the end of his career means very little when put in proper context