BoxRec

viciousmaussa wrote:

Taki... wrote:It would be nice to see Witter actually score a win of some substance before he goes shouting about Hatton ducking or avoiding him. Morua was a 100% gimme.

he wants opponents of substance but the only two (big world class names) that were offered were late notice fights with Judah and Cotto, sadly. But by keeping this title, they will come eventually. Roll on Harris.

There are 4 titles. You don't get big fights by holding onto a title (see any number of 'world champions') you have to take big risks and go looking for them.

Taki... wrote:It would be nice to see Witter actually score a win of some substance before he goes shouting about Hatton ducking or avoiding him. Morua was a 100% gimme.

Well Witters going after Corrales and Hatton, hopefully 1 of those comes off this year. If not the Harris/Lazcanno mandatory is a tougher opponent as anyone at 140.

Morua was pretty much as big a gimme as Urango/Ndouja but Witter at least did what your supposed to against a gimme

viciousmaussa wrote:

Taki... wrote:It would be nice to see Witter actually score a win of some substance before he goes shouting about Hatton ducking or avoiding him. Morua was a 100% gimme.

he wants opponents of substance but the only two (big world class names) that were offered were late notice fights with Judah and Cotto, sadly. But by keeping this title, they will come eventually. Roll on Harris.

If Hatton took Judah at short notice after 12fights he would have lost too.

Against Cotto, Witter thought there was no point in losing his WBC mandatory position to Mayweather for a very dangerous fight without any prep. After seeing what Torres did that night Witter must have been klicking himself because Cotto would have been knocked out.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Taki... wrote:It would be nice to see Witter actually score a win of some substance before he goes shouting about Hatton ducking or avoiding him. Morua was a 100% gimme.

Well Witters going after Corrales and Hatton, hopefully 1 of those comes off this year. If not the Harris/Lazcanno mandatory is a tougher opponent as anyone at 140.

Morua was pretty much as big a gimme as Urango/Ndouja but Witter at least did what your supposed to against a gimme

Are you being serious? Urango and Ngoudju may have been big underdogs, but Morua presented ZERO risk.

Taki... wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Taki... wrote:It would be nice to see Witter actually score a win of some substance before he goes shouting about Hatton ducking or avoiding him. Morua was a 100% gimme.

Well Witters going after Corrales and Hatton, hopefully 1 of those comes off this year. If not the Harris/Lazcanno mandatory is a tougher opponent as anyone at 140.

Morua was pretty much as big a gimme as Urango/Ndouja but Witter at least did what your supposed to against a gimme

Are you being serious? Urango and Ngoudju may have been big underdogs, but Morua presented ZERO risk.

Morua beat Maussa, Augustus, Weis - he obviously has some skills he just was unable to exploit them aainst Witter.

As if Witter can just pick and choose and decide, 'oh, there's not much progress with the WBC right now so let's have a look at the WBO, perhaps Mick...if there's no luck we'll try a different one next week, hmmm??'

Witter is an avoided fighter. He got his WBC #1 ranking and he held onto it until he got his title. Why would he restart another slow climb up the rankings for a different belt - that's nonsense!

Now with the title - which he doesn't take for granted, doesn't disgrace by blowing up like a darts player - he figures the big fights will come.

Still, if Hatton had been pencilled in to fight Morua, we all know he would have been slated to high heaven for it.

Witter has gotten away quite lightly with critiscm of this opponent and has gained quite a lot of credibility for beating him.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Morua beat Maussa, Augustus, Weis - he obviously has some skills he just was unable to exploit them aainst Witter.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Witter would have struggled but I don't think Witter did anything to make him unable to exploit his skills. He froze from the opening bell, IMO.

He tried nothing offensively - not even swings the Witter would probably evade easily. He did nothing but try and survive and Witter, to his credit, did the job eventually.

stujones wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Morua beat Maussa, Augustus, Weis - he obviously has some skills he just was unable to exploit them aainst Witter.

Now, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying Witter would have struggled but I don't think Witter did anything to make him unable to exploit his skills. He froze from the opening bell, IMO.

He tried nothing offensively - not even swings the Witter would probably evade easily. He did nothing but try and survive and Witter, to his credit, did the job eventually.

The thing is Morua is usually an aggressive pressure fighter, he knew Witter could bang, took Barreras advice on how he beat Hamed and looked for countering opportunities. Morua isnt Barrera and didnt get those opportunities.

If Morua was aggressive it would have been over faster, fighting a fighter been negative and been defensive is not going to make a counter puncher look good.

Twinkle Toes wrote:Still, if Hatton had been pencilled in to fight Morua, we all know he would have been slated to high heaven for it.

Witter has gotten away quite lightly with critiscm of this opponent and has gained quite a lot of credibility for beating him.

Well as Hatton fought Maussa hes fought someone worse than Morua 2 fights ago.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Twinkle Toes wrote:Still, if Hatton had been pencilled in to fight Morua, we all know he would have been slated to high heaven for it.

Witter has gotten away quite lightly with critiscm of this opponent and has gained quite a lot of credibility for beating him.

Well as Hatton fought Maussa hes fought someone worse than Morua 2 fights ago.

True, but that didn't exactly go uncriticised though, not to mention it was a unification.

viciousmaussa wrote:
Now with the title - which he doesn't take for granted, doesn't disgrace by blowing up like a darts player - he figures the big fights will come.

viciousmaussa wrote:

DG. wrote:Witter ONLY EVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT HATTONS WORKRATE.

Hatton does not have thay any more, WITTER beats the shit out of Hatton and Hatton knows it.

Witter has some great footwork when he uses it - pivots, sidesteps, subtle little moves that'd get him out of Hatton's range. I think Witter hurts him badly with that weird right hand.

We should be proud to have Witter. He deserves all his success and has proven that the Ingle style works at world class if you stick to boxing.

His body of work is looking good for an avoided fighter. I know it's not a HOF roster, but there's nothing wrong with wins over Morua, Ndou, Corley, and Kotelnik.

I hope he gets the fights that he wants.

Agree with you guys, especially that Hatton would be not so special at all without his trademark relentless workrate...I'll take Witter for this one, and he deserves the opportunity.

Hatton has a beeter fan base, but that doesn't make him a better fighter!

caster wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:

DG. wrote:Witter ONLY EVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT HATTONS WORKRATE.

Hatton does not have thay any more, WITTER beats the shit out of Hatton and Hatton knows it.

Witter has some great footwork when he uses it - pivots, sidesteps, subtle little moves that'd get him out of Hatton's range. I think Witter hurts him badly with that weird right hand.

We should be proud to have Witter. He deserves all his success and has proven that the Ingle style works at world class if you stick to boxing.

His body of work is looking good for an avoided fighter. I know it's not a HOF roster, but there's nothing wrong with wins over Morua, Ndou, Corley, and Kotelnik.

I hope he gets the fights that he wants.

Agree with you guys, especially that Hatton would be not so special at all without his trademark relentless workrate...I'll take Witter for this one, and he deserves the opportunity.

Hatton has a beeter fan base, but that doesn't make him a better fighter!

Beating Kostya Tszyu makes Hatton a better fighter.

Just playing devils advocate but do we think Witter could have beaten Tszyu that night?

I reckon he would have lost a points decision but hurt Tszyu a bit with some bombs on the way in.

caster wrote:[Agree with you guys, especially that Hatton would be not so special at all without his trademark relentless workrate

Thats like saying Pacquaio would not be special without his trademark relentless work rate, Jorge Arce as well. Or Mayweather would not be that special without his speed....

Theres more to Hatton that relentless workrate, you need more than that to be at his level in the sport of Boxing.

Hatton cuts off the ring well with good footwork, he uses good angles to set up his punch's thinking ahead of his first shot and has an array of punch's in every fight.

YES Hatton's relentless workrate is a brilliant asset of course, but he brings more than that to the table with a good Boxing brain and he's proven that by were he is today.

Boxers like Ray Oliveira have relentless workrate, but you need to be able to complement the workrate with more skills to succeed at the top level.

Goz wrote:Just playing devils advocate but do we think Witter could have beaten Tszyu that night?

I reckon he would have lost a points decision but hurt Tszyu a bit with some bombs on the way in.

You want to see what Kostya Tszyu does to fighters who stand off him then check out Judah and Mitchell. I doubt Witter would've gone more than 6 rounds.

Taki... wrote:

Goz wrote:Just playing devils advocate but do we think Witter could have beaten Tszyu that night?

I reckon he would have lost a points decision but hurt Tszyu a bit with some bombs on the way in.

You want to see what Kostya Tszyu does to fighters who stand off him then check out Judah and Mitchell. I doubt Witter would've gone more than 6 rounds.

Fair point.

Goz wrote:Just playing devils advocate but do we think Witter could have beaten Tszyu that night?

I reckon he would have lost a points decision but hurt Tszyu a bit with some bombs on the way in.

I'm beggining to believe Tyszu wasn't himself that night. In first watching the fight I thought hatton would always have outboxed, outworked and beat any version of Tyszu. But now I come to think about it Tyszu didn't seem as sharp, prepared for a real fight, or like been up at 2am. ON top of that he couldnt. I think he expected an easy fight and paid for it.

I'm really not sure how good the Tyszu of that night was but I believe its a 50-50 between him and Witter. Witter and Tyszu are both massive counter punchers. Witter may beat Tyszu to the punch but Tyszu would punnish any mistake fdrom Witter. Tyszu proved that night (and many times in his career) very easy to hit, his defense is his weakness. Hes been hurt by Judah, knocked down by Hurtado, ko'd by Phillips and Hatton and those are the only punchers hes faced. So Witter would hurt Tyszu I'm sure of it.

And just because you stand off doesn't mean you'd lose to him. Would Sugar Ray Robininson, Leonard, Hearns, Whitaker all lose to Tyszu aswell because they fight standing off him Witter wouldnt be as weak as Mitchell or as complacent and weak chinned as Judah

However now Witter beats Hatton and easily. Witter would outbox and throw big counters anytime Hatton is aggressive.

Taki... wrote:

Goz wrote:Just playing devils advocate but do we think Witter could have beaten Tszyu that night?

I reckon he would have lost a points decision but hurt Tszyu a bit with some bombs on the way in.

You want to see what Kostya Tszyu does to fighters who stand off him then check out Judah and Mitchell. I doubt Witter would've gone more than 6 rounds.

Tszyu would've had time to think, and probably break down Witter, I agree there. Though it could've been as difficult as the first Sharmbah fight. & it has no bearing on how Witter and Hatton match up.

At no point in either man's career (and on no night) would Tszyu/Witter have been a 50/50 fight. Witter's style is absolutely tailor made for Kostya! He stands off, carries his hands low and doesn't have a high work-rate. Tszyu would follow him around finding his range for a few rounds and eventually catch him with one of those long right hands... goodnight Junior.

Have to say I agree, Witter would have found it very difficult to get away with that low workrate and posing style. Tszyu always struggled with pressure fighters who could close the gap, that's how Vince and Ricky beat him, by sticking on him. Urkal, although noted as more of a technical boxer did the same, and came close to beating him also.

Tszyu was never quick, but what he had was incredible timing and accuracy, which enabled him to exploit openings to devastating effect.

James,

Ultimately I think Witters lack of workrate would be a downfall but I think Speedsters did give Tszyu some problems (especially later) untill he caught them up. I remember the first round of the Chinny Zab Judah and also the questions an aged and smaller Leijla was posing untill he got injured.

Yes, the two ways Kostya was beaten was through outworking him down the stretch - but I think if you were strong chinned and had a good workrate you could out speed Tszyu. Like I would favour Mayweather over Tszyu by running his way and pitta-pattaring his way to success.

Taki... wrote:At no point in either man's career (and on no night) would Tszyu/Witter have been a 50/50 fight. Witter's style is absolutely tailor made for Kostya! He stands off, carries his hands low and doesn't have a high work-rate. Tszyu would follow him around finding his range for a few rounds and eventually catch him with one of those long right hands... goodnight Junior.

Why would the right hand necessarilly put Junior away? Because 2 of them put Judah away who was put down by Spinks and is known for a dodgy chin? Judah wouldn't have been put away if he hadn't jumped straight back up. Or would he definately put Witter away because an older frightened Mitchell didn't have the heart or legs or punch for a fight? Witter is different from both.

So what if Junior may get hit, Tyszu was easy to hit too. He got put down twice by Hurtado and he went down HARD. An older Tyszu may get put away by Witter or may get outboxed like Mitchell did in the first fight.

Mitchell and Judah were easier to tag clean than Junior too. What if Tyszu misses the right? He leaves himself open to a big Witter counter.

Tyszu may be able to KO Witter, but Witter may also be able to KO Tyszu.

The fact of Witter-Tyszu is Tyszu would get beat to the punch and outboxed and would need a KO. Witter can win by points or UD, old Tyszu can only win by KO.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: So what if Junior may get hit, Tyszu was easy to hit too. He got put down twice by Hurtado and he went down HARD.

Bullshit. He was up at 1 for each count, watch the fight.