Rocky Marciano vs Evander Holyfield Cruiserweight(195lbs)

[Tantum]

Rocky will be on his ass all night.

Why? Holyfield is not a little boy...

[dempseyfire]

Looking through the history books, Marciano was a chronic fouler and we know that Holyfield has been a big fan of the headbutt in the past so I would expect a rough contest with point dockings and possible a DQ either way...

However, should nobody get thrown out, i'll settle for a Holyfield win.

Mmm-hmm

You need to get a grip, dempseyfire. Holyfield was an Olympic light-heavy (probably the best ever) and a three time heavyweight champ. Walcott and Charles were a higher class, you say? You know, they might be a class lower. Holyfield could KO either of them, late in his career at that. DEFINITELY earlier in his (heavyweight) career he could KO either of them. HOLYFIELD IS MUCH STRONGER THAN CHARLES AND MUCH FASTER THAN WALCOTT WITH THE COMBINATIONS. And watching Dempsey throw combinations against Willard compared to watching Holyfield throw combinations against, say, Foreman is like watching a wild amateur (Dempsey) and a smooth professional (Holyfield). Can't you tell the difference?

Holyfield stops Rock on cuts.

Make that 2-time HW champ (Tyson was just a paper champ . . .were Bruno and Seldon really the top guys in 1996?? . . keep it real pardna!)

First off, I think Walcott and Charles are definetely in Holyfield's league in terms of athletic ability i.e. punching power and speed.

2ndly, boxing is a lot more than dancing around the ring and throwing 4 punch combos. Walcott and Charles were MASTERS at feinting, counter-punching, in-fighting, punch placement, and pacing themselves. Holyfield, while a very entertaining fighter to watch, just did not possess anywhere near the tool-chest of Walcott and Charles skill-wise. He wasn't crude, but no-one ever watched Evander and praised his slickness in the ring.

[cosand]

While I usually discount these cross era match ups, this one is actually a rare case where the question has some validity.
What makes it interesting, is that neither fighter ever faced a fighter with the long term sustained firepower that the other would bring to that table.
But... I think dempseyfire nailed it.
Holyfield, as he so often did, stops to take a breather, and then wakes up a minute or so later looking at the arena ceiling. Plus, as has alreqady been stated, performance enhancing drugs were not readily available in the 50s
Marciano wins by KO-TKO in the middle rounds

[bill.lockhart]

As I have said before, Nobody could beat him when he was alive. Now that he's dead, it's amazing how many can. He was all about the intangibles. He would find a way. Everbody looked better, looked like they could beat him. He was quiet, humble, never blew his own horn. They were all bigger, stronger, faster, prettier. They all looked better. It seems every one wants to tear him down. Look at the hall of famers he beat. He wasn't pumped up on roids. What you saw, was what you got.
Joe Louis said he could never have beaten him. Thanks, but I'll take Joe's opinion over all you experts. 49 & 0. Pretty enough record for you ?

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Marciano by late round KO.

Guys like Archie Moore and Ezzard Charles are up higher than Holyfiled in all time P4P greats lists. If Rocky can handle them why not Evander?

Yes Evander is a legend, but his status as an all time great is overated at times... i would put him in the latter areas of an all time great list.

Rocky would eaily make a top 20 P4P all time great list

[Ezzard]

Whilst I believe that Evander met and overcame bigger challeneges in his career, and also tend to go against Rocky in many of these fantasy match ups, I go with Marciano here. Evander would brawl and that would mean it was a slugfest. Marciano and Holy were a similar size and both could be hit. I see it as a points win for Marciano (though close).

[zuru]

As I have said before, Nobody could beat him when he was alive. Now that he's dead, it's amazing how many can. He was all about the intangibles. He would find a way. Everbody looked better, looked like they could beat him. He was quiet, humble, never blew his own horn. They were all bigger, stronger, faster, prettier. They all looked better. It seems every one wants to tear him down. Look at the hall of famers he beat. He wasn't pumped up on roids. What you saw, was what you got.
Joe Louis said he could never have beaten him. Thanks, but I'll take Joe's opinion over all you experts. 49 & 0. Pretty enough record for you ?

I agree Bill.Marciano was a baaad dude,that did his talking in the ring.Holyfield could fight,box,slug,etc.BUT,his downfall is he could be hit,and quite easily.He would just forget defense during the heat of a battle,and go toe-to-toe.Anybody doing that against Marciano is going to pay a heavy price,Holyfield included.
zuru

[Controversial]

As I have said before, Nobody could beat him when he was alive. Now that he's dead, it's amazing how many can. He was all about the intangibles. He would find a way. Everbody looked better, looked like they could beat him. He was quiet, humble, never blew his own horn. They were all bigger, stronger, faster, prettier. They all looked better. It seems every one wants to tear him down. Look at the hall of famers he beat. He wasn't pumped up on roids. What you saw, was what you got.
Joe Louis said he could never have beaten him. Thanks, but I'll take Joe's opinion over all you experts. 49 & 0. Pretty enough record for you ?

I have to disagree. Holyfield is a better all round boxer, taller, faster and just as iron chinned as Marciano. Marciano may have had the edge in power. What big puncher did Marciano ever face? Anyone comparible to Lewis, Cooper, Bowe, Tyson or Foreman?

The biggest punchers Marciano fought were probably Louis and Moore. Louis was past it, he had lost the fast, accurate, combination punching that made him so deadly. Moore although he had a great KO record was not really a huge one punch hitter like a Tyson or Foreman was. Moore managed to deck Marciano. Moore was a natural light-heavy, not a great heavyweight and at 42 (or whatever age he was) was no spring chicken.

I think peoples judgement on Holyfield gets clouded because he is still fighting years past his best. He struggles now and people forget how good a fighter he was in his hey day.

Remember Holyfield fought and won the cruiserweight title after 11 fights and by the of his first loss in his 29th fight he had fought and beat around 14-15 contenders. Marciano didn't have his first real test until his 25th fight against Vingo and by the time Marciano was 38-0 there were only four decent opponents on his record, Louis (past it), LaStarza, Layne and Vingo.

Holyfield walked through Tysons best punches without flinching, could Marciano have done that, I doubt it.

People have said Holyfield would slug it out with Marciano and loose. Remember Marciano pounded the well below average Cockell for nine rounds, using every foul in the book to win. If Cockell could have lasted that long Holyfield would have no problem. Holyfield would be punching back not covering up taking a beating.

Rose tinted glasses I think for many people. Holyfield to classy, fast, strong and just as tough. Holyfield by UD.

[AndreWardFan2006]

Marciano was a patient fighter and would keep the pressure on Holyfield all the way through the last round....if it made it that far because Marciano could catch Holyfield and well....down goes Holy. Holyfield would have nothing to answer back against a guy thats work rate was extremely consistent and were all punches with cruel intentions in them.

Marciano,KO,10,2X

[muray]

I see this fight similar to Marciano-Charles, where Charles gave a very good account of himself before being stopped. However I give Holyfield a better chance since he was a better all around boxer than Charles. Holyfield wins 12 round decision

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

similiar to qawi-holyfield except marciano's power/volume of punches/strength is too much for evander. marciano late round TKO

[dempseyfire]

I see this fight similar to Marciano-Charles, where Charles gave a very good account of himself before being stopped. However I give Holyfield a better chance since he was a better all around boxer than Charles.

What????

[JC]

I see this fight similar to Marciano-Charles, where Charles gave a very good account of himself before being stopped. However I give Holyfield a better chance since he was a better all around boxer than Charles.

What????

Maybe he means Walcott?

[dempseyfire]

I see this fight similar to Marciano-Charles, where Charles gave a very good account of himself before being stopped. However I give Holyfield a better chance since he was a better all around boxer than Charles.

What????

Maybe he means Walcott?

Either one is bad.

I was re-watching Bowe-Holyfield II last night. Great fight, very entertaining . . .but Holyfield's lack of defense and package of ring tricks was very evident. He was a great fighter with a great heart, but he did not possess great skills. Good boxer, but not in Charles' or Walcott's class in terms of skill.

[granberry]

Is thist the same grantie chinned Holyfield who was almost knocked out by Bert Cooper and stopped by Riddick Bowe?

Yes the very same. Are you implying because he was stunned by Cooper and stopped by Bowe he isn't granite chinned? No offense, but thats ridiculous.

Holyfield the Billygoat would have been knocked out by drug addict Bert Cooper if referee Mills Lane had not come to Holyfield's rescue.

Lane's refereeing in that bout was a disgrace.

[bill.lockhart]

As I have said before, Nobody could beat him when he was alive. Now that he's dead, it's amazing how many can. He was all about the intangibles. He would find a way. Everbody looked better, looked like they could beat him. He was quiet, humble, never blew his own horn. They were all bigger, stronger, faster, prettier. They all looked better. It seems every one wants to tear him down. Look at the hall of famers he beat. He wasn't pumped up on roids. What you saw, was what you got.
Joe Louis said he could never have beaten him. Thanks, but I'll take Joe's opinion over all you experts. 49 & 0. Pretty enough record for you ?

I have to disagree. Holyfield is a better all round boxer, taller, faster and just as iron chinned as Marciano. Marciano may have had the edge in power. What big puncher did Marciano ever face? Anyone comparible to Lewis, Cooper, Bowe, Tyson or Foreman?

The biggest punchers Marciano fought were probably Louis and Moore. Louis was past it, he had lost the fast, accurate, combination punching that made him so deadly. Moore although he had a great KO record was not really a huge one punch hitter like a Tyson or Foreman was. Moore managed to deck Marciano. Moore was a natural light-heavy, not a great heavyweight and at 42 (or whatever age he was) was no spring chicken.

I think peoples judgement on Holyfield gets clouded because he is still fighting years past his best. He struggles now and people forget how good a fighter he was in his hey day.

Remember Holyfield fought and won the cruiserweight title after 11 fights and by the of his first loss in his 29th fight he had fought and beat around 14-15 contenders. Marciano didn't have his first real test until his 25th fight against Vingo and by the time Marciano was 38-0 there were only four decent opponents on his record, Louis (past it), LaStarza, Layne and Vingo.

Holyfield walked through Tysons best punches without flinching, could Marciano have done that, I doubt it.

People have said Holyfield would slug it out with Marciano and loose. Remember Marciano pounded the well below average Cockell for nine rounds, using every foul in the book to win. If Cockell could have lasted that long Holyfield would have no problem. Holyfield would be punching back not covering up taking a beating.

Rose tinted glasses I think for many people. Holyfield to classy, fast, strong and just as tough. Holyfield by UD.

Tearing down Marciano is like pissing on the flag. Bert Cooper? That hall of famer? Louis, Charles & Moore were 3 of the greatest in all the history of boxing. Walcott, could take Evander to school. How old are you? To compare Holyfield to Marciano is silly. Even on roids he would be no match for Rocky. Rocky would show him who was boss. In a battle of will nobody beats Rocky. Nobody.

[BoxBuzz]

Keeping Evander under 200 I would give Rocky the edge but as Evander put on the weight I'd start leaning the other way.

[Crease]

Professor X said:

"HOLYFIELD IS MUCH STRONGER THAN CHARLES AND MUCH FASTER THAN WALCOTT"....

:o HMMMMM.

That's a bold statement to make.... I'm really not sure that I agree with that...


IN MY OPINION:

Rocky would floor Holyfield late on in the fight...ROCKY wins by KO!!!

***But bu no-means a routine win***

[Controversial]

As I have said before, Nobody could beat him when he was alive. Now that he's dead, it's amazing how many can. He was all about the intangibles. He would find a way. Everbody looked better, looked like they could beat him. He was quiet, humble, never blew his own horn. They were all bigger, stronger, faster, prettier. They all looked better. It seems every one wants to tear him down. Look at the hall of famers he beat. He wasn't pumped up on roids. What you saw, was what you got.
Joe Louis said he could never have beaten him. Thanks, but I'll take Joe's opinion over all you experts. 49 & 0. Pretty enough record for you ?

I have to disagree. Holyfield is a better all round boxer, taller, faster and just as iron chinned as Marciano. Marciano may have had the edge in power. What big puncher did Marciano ever face? Anyone comparible to Lewis, Cooper, Bowe, Tyson or Foreman?

The biggest punchers Marciano fought were probably Louis and Moore. Louis was past it, he had lost the fast, accurate, combination punching that made him so deadly. Moore although he had a great KO record was not really a huge one punch hitter like a Tyson or Foreman was. Moore managed to deck Marciano. Moore was a natural light-heavy, not a great heavyweight and at 42 (or whatever age he was) was no spring chicken.

I think peoples judgement on Holyfield gets clouded because he is still fighting years past his best. He struggles now and people forget how good a fighter he was in his hey day.

Remember Holyfield fought and won the cruiserweight title after 11 fights and by the of his first loss in his 29th fight he had fought and beat around 14-15 contenders. Marciano didn't have his first real test until his 25th fight against Vingo and by the time Marciano was 38-0 there were only four decent opponents on his record, Louis (past it), LaStarza, Layne and Vingo.

Holyfield walked through Tysons best punches without flinching, could Marciano have done that, I doubt it.

People have said Holyfield would slug it out with Marciano and loose. Remember Marciano pounded the well below average Cockell for nine rounds, using every foul in the book to win. If Cockell could have lasted that long Holyfield would have no problem. Holyfield would be punching back not covering up taking a beating.

Rose tinted glasses I think for many people. Holyfield to classy, fast, strong and just as tough. Holyfield by UD.

Tearing down Marciano is like pissing on the flag. Bert Cooper? That hall of famer? Louis, Charles & Moore were 3 of the greatest in all the history of boxing. Walcott, could take Evander to school. How old are you? To compare Holyfield to Marciano is silly. Even on roids he would be no match for Rocky. Rocky would show him who was boss. In a battle of will nobody beats Rocky. Nobody.

I'm not tearing Marciano down he is a favourite of mine. I'm just saying it how it was, he gets way to overated IMO just because he was undefeated.

I used Bert Cooper as an example of a big hitter that Holyfield faced. Cooper was a helluva hitter and probably punched harder than anyone Marciano fought. He may not have been an ATG or even particurly good, but a big puncher he was. Someone doesn't have to be a great fighter to be a big puncher (Shavers, Bruno etc....).

Please name the long list of big punchers Marciano fought. You won't find many. As I said Louis was one, but he was way past it, thats no secret, and what made Louis so deadly was his quick accurate combination punching, something he didn't have when he fought Marciano.

All the great fighters Marciano fought were past their best. Marciano was very cleverly managed. He fought a lot of nobodies and fighters near the end of their careers. Holyfield fought the best around, no carefully selected opposition for him. You talk of the steroids story around Holyfield, how about the Mob influence in Marcianos career and the close ties his manager had with the Mob?

No fighter in history gets the sort of blind praise than Marciano. Louis is still named as being a great win for Marciano when its a known fact that Louis was broke and was forced to fight. He was podgy, bald and nowhere near the fighter he was. Yet when Tyson flattened Holmes every one says, 'Holmes was old' !!! No praise for Tyson. Marciano ko's Louis and its classed as a great ko, even though Louis had been ko'ed before. Tyson ko's Holmes who hadn't been stopped before and Holmes is past it !!! Geeze....give me a break.

[granberry]

[
Please name the long list of big punchers Marciano fought.

Were you ever hit by Jersey Joe Walcott?

Walcott won the title with a single punch, left hook KO of Ezzard Charles.
Charles was out for well over five minutes.

Walcott knocked Joe Louis down in BOTH of their fights.

Walcott knocked Marciano down in the first round of their title fight.

Marciano took enough to knock out fifty fighters in that fight.

If Walcott couldn't knock him out in that fight with the punches he landed, then it is doubful if anyone ever could.

The Marciano-Walcott first fight was one of the great fights in the history of the heavyweight title.

I hope you never get hit by anyone who hits one one hundredth as hard as Walcott, controversial.

[walshb]

Two all time greats so instead if dissing one or the other, which I could never do I'll say that Holy has the edge plainly because he was a more polished and accurate puncher. Great chin, very good stamina and a definite edge in speed. He is also an underrated puncher and when both are going to weigh in at 195-200lbs, I think Rocky may just have a slight edge in punch power. I see Holy just being that bit too precise and busy for Rocky and will see him win a decision. No KO over 12 in this fight.
Over 15 I favor Rocky by possibly 14-15th rd stoppage

[Ezzard]

Holyfield, as he so often did, stops to take a breather, and then wakes up a minute or so later looking at the arena ceiling. Plus, as has alreqady been stated, performance enhancing drugs were not readily available in the 50s

cosand

In this line (and I know you're just being frivolous here but...) you seem to be applying the same criteria to both Holyfield and Marciano. By putting them back in the 1950s Holy's enhancers are being taken away. In many other cross-era match ups you are not so willing to do this.

You make good points about nutrition etc... but applying the logic you use to Holyfield wouldn't it take these advancements out of the equation and allow both men the benefit (or not) of the same technologies to prepare for the fight?

[Controversial]

[
Please name the long list of big punchers Marciano fought.

Were you ever hit by Jersey Joe Walcott?

Walcott won the title with a single punch, left hook KO of Ezzard Charles.
Charles was out for well over five minutes.

Walcott knocked Joe Louis down in BOTH of their fights.

Walcott knocked Marciano down in the first round of their title fight.

Marciano took enough to knock out fifty fighters in that fight.

If Walcott couldn't knock him out in that fight with the punches he landed, then it is doubful if anyone ever could.

The Marciano-Walcott first fight was one of the great fights in the history of the heavyweight title.

I hope you never get hit by anyone who hits one one hundredth as hard as Walcott, controversial.

You been hit by Tyson or Foreman? I'd pick Walcott every time if I had the choice. Walcott was a solid puncher, he wasn't a big hitter, hardly comparible to Tyson, Foreman or even Lennox Lewis.

[Controversial]

Two all time greats so instead if dissing one or the other, which I could never do I'll say that Holy has the edge plainly because he was a more polished and accurate puncher. Great chin, very good stamina and a definite edge in speed. He is also an underrated puncher and when both are going to weigh in at 195-200lbs, I think Rocky may just have a slight edge in punch power. I see Holy just being that bit too precise and busy for Rocky and will see him win a decision. No KO over 12 in this fight.
Over 15 I favor Rocky by possibly 14-15th rd stoppage

I agree, I wasn't dissing Marciano, just putting my case forward as to why I think Holyfield would beat him. UD for Holyfield.

[Ezzard]

[
Please name the long list of big punchers Marciano fought.

Were you ever hit by Jersey Joe Walcott?

Walcott won the title with a single punch, left hook KO of Ezzard Charles.
Charles was out for well over five minutes.

Walcott knocked Joe Louis down in BOTH of their fights.

Walcott knocked Marciano down in the first round of their title fight.

Marciano took enough to knock out fifty fighters in that fight.

If Walcott couldn't knock him out in that fight with the punches he landed, then it is doubful if anyone ever could.

The Marciano-Walcott first fight was one of the great fights in the history of the heavyweight title.

I hope you never get hit by anyone who hits one one hundredth as hard as Walcott, controversial.

You been hit by Tyson or Foreman? I'd pick Walcott every time if I had the choice. Walcott was a solid puncher, he wasn't a big hitter, hardly comparible to Tyson, Foreman or even Lennox Lewis.

It's not as quite as starightforward as you might think.

Walcott was a mover. He boxed and made his openings. Tyson, Foreman and Lewis were looking to land their big punch from the very start. Walcott's left hook though was as good a KO punch as there was. I'd say his left hook is right up there with Dempsey's and Frazier's.

Whilst the guys you list are more known for their punch power Walcott had a great shot in his arsenal.