BoxRec

Have you forgotten Henry Armstrong?

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:Where does Mayweather Jr. rank among the fastest hands P4P of all time?

To be honest Floyd is very quick but I think he is highly skilled and has very sound fundamentals. He also has excellent timing and his accuracy gets better as the fight goes on. I believe all these things make him seem faster than he is. IMO there are quite a few fighters who have faster hands.

Ezzard wrote:

AndreWardFan2006 wrote:Where does Mayweather Jr. rank among the fastest hands P4P of all time?

To be honest Floyd is very quick but I think he is highly skilled and has very sound fundamentals. He also has excellent timing and his accuracy gets better as the fight goes on. I believe all these things make him seem faster than he is. IMO there are quite a few fighters who have faster hands.

Very true. Mayweather's hand speed looks quicker when he hits on target and can perfect his timing, a lot like Tyson with his punching power...he had the timing and accuracy. Although Tyson ranks amongs everyone top 10 when you ask for the hardest punchers of all-time.

Heavyweights...Mike Tyson followed closely by Ali. Other weights...Roy Jones was about as fast as anyone that I have seen.

Ali Vs Patterson is an interesting question...and I have done some examinng of the evidence. I have not taken a graphic calculator to this which some have claim to have done. (Those who have done that have calculated that on the fastest examples they can find that Patterson outspeeds Ali) But I have noticed "general body of work" trends.

I have to say that Patterson's hands were as fast or faster than Ali HOWEVER...When you factor body movement and leg speed and overall dexterity/mobility/speed....Ali was a faster cat in an overall sense.

Pure hanspeed? Patterson may well have been as fast but since his artillery was stationed on a less dexterious vehicle his possibly equal handspeed was not as overall effective. What I did notice is that Ali's hands could travel from a distance in a seemingly more surprising fashioned because his entire body may have been in motion in a working ensemble of movement. So his handspeed gets a boost from body and legs that Patterson does not equal.

I sure as hell hope that made some kind of physics sense. I think I'm saying it clumsily but I sure know what the hell I'm TRYING to get said.

elmersalsa wrote:Also James Dusgate of The Ring, did an article on Laguna. He wrote that when Carlos Ortiz came to Panama to defend his title aganist him, that Jersey Joe Walcott advised him to go back home to NYC, postpone the fight and prepare much better and come back to Panama for the fight. Even though Carlos did this, still lost. Laguna was a very fast boxer.

The other fast boxer was Ken Buchanan. At least it seemed to me that at his best, he had that incredible fast jab. That is why I want to see his both fights with Laguna to appreciate their boxing skills which were strictly, super world class!!!

Buchanan said he underestimated Roberto Duran because Laguna had told him how easy he had handled Duran in sparring.

wouter wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Also James Dusgate of The Ring, did an article on Laguna. He wrote that when Carlos Ortiz came to Panama to defend his title aganist him, that Jersey Joe Walcott advised him to go back home to NYC, postpone the fight and prepare much better and come back to Panama for the fight. Even though Carlos did this, still lost. Laguna was a very fast boxer.

The other fast boxer was Ken Buchanan. At least it seemed to me that at his best, he had that incredible fast jab. That is why I want to see his both fights with Laguna to appreciate their boxing skills which were strictly, super world class!!!

Buchanan said he underestimated Roberto Duran because Laguna had told him how easy he had handled Duran in sparring.

Laguna one time sparred with Duran, according to the old timers that were there watching. They said that Laguna took a raw Duran to school, and bled his nose and everything. They had to stop the sparring because it was getting very violent. Duran was a top contender at the time, and Laguna already was a two-time world lightweight champion.

BoxBuzz wrote:Ali Vs Patterson is an interesting question...and I have done some examinng of the evidence. I have not taken a graphic calculator to this which some have claim to have done. (Those who have done that have calculated that on the fastest examples they can find that Patterson outspeeds Ali) But I have noticed "general body of work" trends.

I have to say that Patterson's hands were as fast or faster than Ali HOWEVER...When you factor body movement and leg speed and overall dexterity/mobility/speed....Ali was a faster cat in an overall sense.

Pure hanspeed? Patterson may well have been as fast but since his artillery was stationed on a less dexterious vehicle his possibly equal handspeed was not as overall effective. What I did notice is that Ali's hands could travel from a distance in a seemingly more surprising fashioned because his entire body may have been in motion in a working ensemble of movement. So his handspeed gets a boost from body and legs that Patterson does not equal.

I sure as hell hope that made some kind of physics sense. I think I'm saying it clumsily but I sure know what the hell I'm TRYING to get said.

Interesting take on things.

If we were to take the definition of speed in a physics sense, the time it takes to travel a certain distance, and apply it to the boxing, then the supposed edge Floyd had in speed over Ali would be explained. I say they had near the same speed, but I give the slight edge to Ali based on his superior reach. If both fighters were to stand back and hit a heavy bag, and lets say in theory they both hit the bag in 4/100ths of a second (or however fast they are). You would also have to take into account the distance travelled to acquire the overall speed. Ali had a 9 inch reach advantage over Floyd, which means his punch would have to travel that much further than Floyd's. So although, it looks like they are going at the same speed, Ali would have a slight edge.