BoxRec

Max Molyneux wrote:Even though Witter's not a huge draw, who outside of hardcore fans In Britain would choose Hatton/Mayweather over Hatton/Witter? Even casuals here have heard of Witter more than Mayweather

Hatton fought in front of about 3,000 against Urango.

There HAS to be as much if not more money in Hatton v Witter at City of Manchester Stadium than Hatton v Castillo in front of 4-5,000 in Vegas. I appreciate you get the Vegas site fees but HBO would show Hatton v Witter no doubt about it so there is no argument there, and a 30-40,000 gate would bring in massive amounts. Witter also has a title Hatton could unify. Castillo looks shot to shit so no doubt that will be the next step before the easy pickings of N'dou.

Maussa
Collazo
Urango
Castillo
N'dou

I'd say thats a disappointing schedule post Tszyu.

One minute the titles are important the next he's discarding them when it suits. Which is it??

nickd wrote:Hatton fought in front of about 3,000 against Urango.

There HAS to be as much if not more money in Hatton v Witter at City of Manchester Stadium than Hatton v Castillo in front of 4-5,000 in Vegas. I appreciate you get the Vegas site fees but HBO would show Hatton v Witter no doubt about it so there is no argument there, and a 30-40,000 gate would bring in massive amounts. Witter also has a title Hatton could unify. Castillo looks shot to shit so no doubt that will be the next step before the easy pickings of N'dou.

Maussa
Collazo
Urango
Castillo
N'dou

I'd say thats a disappointing schedule post Tszyu.

One minute the titles are important the next he's discarding them when it suits. Which is it??

Who are you Ross Greenburg? I don't know where you get your confidence that HBO would approve Witter, I've seen no indications to back that statement up.

Site fees are a massive part of the equation, were talking millions of dollars here. You have to bear in mind as well, that not many fights in Vegas do a massive amount at the gate. Vegas crowds aren't really big boxing officianados as such. The Paris casino doesn't even have a big arena as far as I am aware. Although Casino's attract a lot of high rollers during a big fight, that doesn't neccessarily mean they get a massive crowd in the arena, many people turn up just to catch the big atmosphere around the fight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

nickd wrote:Hatton fought in front of about 3,000 against Urango.

There HAS to be as much if not more money in Hatton v Witter at City of Manchester Stadium than Hatton v Castillo in front of 4-5,000 in Vegas. I appreciate you get the Vegas site fees but HBO would show Hatton v Witter no doubt about it so there is no argument there, and a 30-40,000 gate would bring in massive amounts. Witter also has a title Hatton could unify. Castillo looks shot to shit so no doubt that will be the next step before the easy pickings of N'dou.

Maussa
Collazo
Urango
Castillo
N'dou

I'd say thats a disappointing schedule post Tszyu.

One minute the titles are important the next he's discarding them when it suits. Which is it??

Who are you Ross Greenburg? I don't know where you get your confidence that HBO would approve Witter, I've seen no indications to back that statement up.

Site fees are a massive part of the equation, were talking millions of dollars here. You have to bear in mind as well, that not many fights in Vegas do a massive amount at the gate. Vegas crowds aren't really big boxing officianados as such. The Paris casino doesn't even have a big arena as far as I am aware. Although Casino's attract a lot of high rollers during a big fight, that doesn't neccessarily mean they get a massive crowd in the arena, many people turn up just to catch the big atmosphere around the fight.

Well HBO approved Urango and you think they wouldn't approve a unification fight with Witter? HBO were actually looking to televise Witter against Demetrius Hopkins not so long ago the HBO thing is not an issue.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

Taki... wrote:Give Britain what it wants: Er, surely that's Hatton/Mayweather... not Hatton/Witter.

>> I am a British fighter holding the WBC belt. The most prestigious belt. A belt he has never won.

Actually the WBC belt means sod all at 140.

>> We could achieve one of the biggest gates in British Boxing history if we went somewhere like the near 50,000 capacity City of Manchester Stadium.

Hatton could achieve that gate with no help from Witter.

>> The Sky Pay Per View figures could potentially break all records.

Yeah, people tuning in to watch Hatton...

>> HBO could still be accommodated on either a live or delayed basis.

And?

>> Hatton will make far more money fighting me than Castillo or N’Dou.

N'dou yes, but Castillo?

>> We have the longest rivalry in boxing today.

Even though Witter's not a huge draw, who outside of hardcore fans In Britain would choose Hatton/Mayweather over Hatton/Witter? Even casuals here have heard of Witter more than Mayweather.

Hatton's a millionare already doesn't matter If he makes more fight Witter or Castillo.

Hatton wouldn't achieve a 50,000 gate without the right opponent and thats Witter, even Hatton said he ever got to fight at that staduim an opponent like Witter would do It.(He said It on a video interview off his own website)

Outside of Mancs, who would mostly tune In for Hatton? I'd tune In for both.

Is the WBC better than the WBA and IBF?

HBO would choose Witter If they stick Fana fighting Barrera on PPV.

Thank christ you're not a promoter mate, you'd lose your shirt.

Hatton v Mayweather would be a far bigger sell than Hatton v Witter.
Most people didn't know who Kostya Tszyu is either, but that didn't stop them flocking to the MEN to see Hatton fight did it? It's about selling the fight, not neccesarily the fighters, you really think that Hatton couldn't draw a crowd to fight the guy regarded by many as the #1 fighter on the planet right now?

Hatton isn't going to get a 50,000 gate anywhere, there isn't an active fighter in the world who can draw a crowd like that, well, perhaps Barrera could in Mexico City, but those days for British fighters are long gone, and in Vegas they are lucky to get 10,000 in an arena.

I'm not a promoter, but your biased for Hatton as usual.

Witter v Hatton In Britain would sell more In Britain, two British world champions fighting each other at a staduim like Man Cities which Hatton supports would be huge!

J-C wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Even though Witter's not a huge draw, who outside of hardcore fans In Britain would choose Hatton/Mayweather over Hatton/Witter? Even casuals here have heard of Witter more than Mayweather

You know It's true.

Witter will smack down Hatton.

Its clear as day Hatton wants the path of least resistance. Castillo is the easiest 'big name' fight out there for Hatton by a long way hence why they are targetting him. Castillo is well past his best.

Surely its time for the Hatton huggers to face up to reality.

I have been a Hatton fan in the past but enough is enough.

Well past his best Nick? He COULD be fading or it could be down to underestimating Njoudjo. However, he didn't look bad KO'ing Diego Corrales in his fight previous - or beating Ronaldo Reyes the fight before (or Julio Diaz and Diego Corrales 1 before that).

I would define someone who is well past his best as someone who has shown a lesser performance for at least 2 fights running.

Max Molyneux wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote: Even though Witter's not a huge draw, who outside of hardcore fans In Britain would choose Hatton/Mayweather over Hatton/Witter? Even casuals here have heard of Witter more than Mayweather.

Hatton's a millionare already doesn't matter If he makes more fight Witter or Castillo.

Hatton wouldn't achieve a 50,000 gate without the right opponent and thats Witter, even Hatton said he ever got to fight at that staduim an opponent like Witter would do It.(He said It on a video interview off his own website)

Outside of Mancs, who would mostly tune In for Hatton? I'd tune In for both.

Is the WBC better than the WBA and IBF?

HBO would choose Witter If they stick Fana fighting Barrera on PPV.

Thank christ you're not a promoter mate, you'd lose your shirt.

Hatton v Mayweather would be a far bigger sell than Hatton v Witter.
Most people didn't know who Kostya Tszyu is either, but that didn't stop them flocking to the MEN to see Hatton fight did it? It's about selling the fight, not neccesarily the fighters, you really think that Hatton couldn't draw a crowd to fight the guy regarded by many as the #1 fighter on the planet right now?

Hatton isn't going to get a 50,000 gate anywhere, there isn't an active fighter in the world who can draw a crowd like that, well, perhaps Barrera could in Mexico City, but those days for British fighters are long gone, and in Vegas they are lucky to get 10,000 in an arena.

I'm not a promoter, but your biased for Hatton as usual.

Witter v Hatton In Britain would sell more In Britain, two British world champions fighting each other at a staduim like Man Cities which Hatton supports would be huge!

There's no bias involved, I just don't believe they would sell out Man City Stadium by any stretch, I cannot see Hatton getting 40,000 plus people to turn up, and where is Witter going to find 15,000 people to watch him in Manchester?

I don't think your proposition is at all realistic.

Probably around 20,000 would turn up at Man City.

In Britain Witter v Hatton would be bigger than Hatton v Floyd, around the rest of the world of Boxing Hatton V Floyd would be bigger.

stujones wrote:Well past his best Nick? He COULD be fading or it could be down to underestimating Njoudjo. However, he didn't look bad KO'ing Diego Corrales in his fight previous - or beating Ronaldo Reyes the fight before (or Julio Diaz and Diego Corrales 1 before that).

I would define someone who is well past his best as someone who has shown a lesser performance for at least 2 fights running.

Castillo is on the slide no question about that for me. Where are the big fights with Cotto, Mayweather etc? Barely mentioned since they saw Castillo as a more attractive and easier option.

If Hatton fights N'dou will his fans still defend him tooth and nail?

Since beating Tszyu he has been on big money fighting average opposition. Hatton fans were quick to jump on Mayweather when he was fighting Bruselles, Gatti, Corley etc but Hatton's last few have been worse on the whole.

What's good for the goose and all that!

Nobody could defend an N'Dou fight.

Unless your a Man City fan.

Well those who defended Urango (note I WASN'T one of them) should be able to defend an Ndou match. Ndou is better than Urango.

stujones wrote:Well those who defended Urango (note I WASN'T one of them) should be able to defend an Ndou match. Ndou is better than Urango.

That'll be Terrence and James then.

stujones wrote:Well those who defended Urango (note I WASN'T one of them) should be able to defend an Ndou match. Ndou is better than Urango.

Much of a muchness.

Hatton himself has said he only has a few fights left so beats me why he is wasting them fighting average guys like Urango. And looks like N'dou either before or after Castillo.

I honestly think Hatton realises he peaked at the Tszyu fight and is on the wane. The cracks were showing againt Maussa but allowances were made, then pretty average showings against Collazo and Urango. Very rarely do fighters find peak form again once they start slipping.

I do seem to be defending Hatton alot recently, but I didn't think his performance vs Urango was that bad - just smart. Just as Mayweather was smart as opposed to Mr Exciting vs Baldomir.

Urango couldn't do a thing when Hatton was clinching no idea, and the ref wasn't even warning Hatton - so why not continue - better than staying in punching range and risk getting nailed.

Well Ndou KO'd a fighter who I thought gave Urango a boxing lesson. Urango vs Rabah was one of the worst decision I have ever seen. I aint seen the Ndou fight, but no-one is saying he (Ndou) was down on the cards at the time of the stoppage.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Thank christ you're not a promoter mate, you'd lose your shirt.

Hatton v Mayweather would be a far bigger sell than Hatton v Witter.
Most people didn't know who Kostya Tszyu is either, but that didn't stop them flocking to the MEN to see Hatton fight did it? It's about selling the fight, not neccesarily the fighters, you really think that Hatton couldn't draw a crowd to fight the guy regarded by many as the #1 fighter on the planet right now?

Hatton isn't going to get a 50,000 gate anywhere, there isn't an active fighter in the world who can draw a crowd like that, well, perhaps Barrera could in Mexico City, but those days for British fighters are long gone, and in Vegas they are lucky to get 10,000 in an arena.

I'm not a promoter, but your biased for Hatton as usual.

Witter v Hatton In Britain would sell more In Britain, two British world champions fighting each other at a staduim like Man Cities which Hatton supports would be huge!

There's no bias involved, I just don't believe they would sell out Man City Stadium by any stretch, I cannot see Hatton getting 40,000 plus people to turn up, and where is Witter going to find 15,000 people to watch him in Manchester?

I don't think your proposition is at all realistic.

Witter would be lucky to find 1500 people who would pay to watch him.

stujones wrote:I do seem to be defending Hatton alot recently, but I didn't think his performance vs Urango was that bad - just smart. Just as Mayweather was smart as opposed to Mr Exciting vs Baldomir.

Urango couldn't do a thing when Hatton was clinching no idea, and the ref wasn't even warning Hatton - so why not continue - better than staying in punching range and risk getting nailed.

Well Ndou KO'd a fighter who I thought gave Urango a boxing lesson. Urango vs Rabah was one of the worst decision I have ever seen. I aint seen the Ndou fight, but no-one is saying he (Ndou) was down on the cards at the time of the stoppage.

Styles make fights, I think N'dou v Urango is a 50-50 fight. N'dou isn't going to get on his bike all night, and if Urango could hurt Hatton you bet he could hurt N'dou. Kind of proves my point here, we're splitting hairs over a couple of guys who Hatton really should be nowhere near fighting at this stage. Big fights were the order of the day according to Hatton's team and now nearly 2 years on from his breakout win he still hasn't had another big fight.

Taki... wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote: I'm not a promoter, but your biased for Hatton as usual.

Witter v Hatton In Britain would sell more In Britain, two British world champions fighting each other at a staduim like Man Cities which Hatton supports would be huge!

There's no bias involved, I just don't believe they would sell out Man City Stadium by any stretch, I cannot see Hatton getting 40,000 plus people to turn up, and where is Witter going to find 15,000 people to watch him in Manchester?

I don't think your proposition is at all realistic.

Witter would be lucky to find 1500 people who would pay to watch him.

This is Bullshit stop defending Hatton, He could unify the division instead he is going to fight Ndou what crap.
The reason this fight won't happen is because Hattons camp is scared shitless of Witter he has big power and seems to be getting better and better over the last few years.

Hatton Said that Witter brings nothing to the table CRAP Witter is a top fighter at 140 now and all the excuses Hatton made in the past are now crap, Mayweather isnt going to fight Hatton so at least fight the man who wants the fight and has offered to do it for fuckall

I think this has gone from the debate. I think if you asked James, Taki, Myself and those others defending Hatton who would they rather see Ricky fight Witter or Ndou then none of us would hesistate that it would be Junior - for the obvious reason you stated in your last post, Nick.

However, the original debate is what was the bigger fight - Hatton vs Castillo or Hatton vs Witter. I'm sorry but its the former by quite some way. Yes, HBO (eventually) accepted Urango - but he was a belt holder (which is all Witter is at the moment, not champion) who has based his career in the states - been showcased (in good fights) on Showtime (Shobox) and ESPN.

Witter IS a much more dangerous fight than Urango, but STILL Joe public in the states don't know he is a champion (cause none of his fights have been showcased since a few brief highlights of Ndou). Due to a lack of opportunity more than anything else but Witter needs to get showcased in the states before HBO will consider him. He needs a high profile win of his own - now any combination of Lazcano/Harris/Corrales/Castillo (which are likely to be Junior's next opponent) should be that high profile win. If Hennessey/Golden Boy cannot secure TV rights for Witter vs one of those four then they need their heads testing. Yes it sounds odd that there is more of a chance of Witter vs a lesser known fighter getting TV rights than Witter vs Hatton, but thats the way it works. Rabah vs Hatton was originally rejected, but had Rabah beaten Urango (which was live on ESPN) then he would have been accepted.

So the argument comes, "well Hatton vs Witter would sell out the City of Manchester stadium" - yes it would, but then so would Hatton vs Castillo or Hatton vs Peter Buckley. So if you think there is more money made in the UK - they can always have it here. Obviously there isn't otherwise all of Hatton's fights would be in the UK.

As for what is the most dangerous fight Hatton vs Witter or Hatton vs Castillo - thats open to debate. We are criticising Ndou / Urango style opponents, but Junior struggled vs Ndou - Ricky was FAR more convincing (yet getting slated) vs Urango than Junior was vs Ndou. Then against a similar level opponent (Kotelnik) he also struggled - lack of motivation? lack of ability? fading? - all could be factors - cause Witter aint proved himself (Demarcus Corely frankly sucked and fought with no ambition or no big win in a number of years). However, Castillo puts in ONE similar effort vs a similar level fighter and he is "definately shot" (according to the Witter fans anyway).

I personally think Castillo is a still a more difficult fight for Hatton than Witter. Witter has got a lot to prove - what he is doing now is kinda like Enzo Maccarinelli accusing O Neil Bell of ducking him.

I concur Stu. This debate has become polarised and divided between the Junior Witter apologists, and the Hatton nut huggers. I am neither.

What we are talking about is which is the bigger fight. There are some people here who are extremely optimistic/naive about what Witter would bring to the table financially.

Personally, I don't think Hatton could fill the City of Manchester Stadium fighting Witter, I don't even think a Mayweather fight would fill it, I doubt there are 40,000 people who are prepared to shell out for a fighter anywhere in this country. The only fight I could possibly see selling like that would be Hatton v Oscar DeLaHoya, and let's face it, that would never happen in Manchester.

I would like to see Hatton and Witter get it on, I really would, I believe Hatton would win pretty convincingly, but that's just an opinion, and I'd like to find out by watching the fight rather than discussing it on a forum. Realistically however, unless Witter manages to get himself showcased on American TV soon, it's not going to happen. Witter has not turned in a single dazzling performance since losing to Judah, nothing he has done has convinced American TV execs that he is a hot property, and whilst this remains the case, there is little to be gained for Hatton in fighting him other than bragging rights. That's just how it is. If you want to convince yourselves that Hatton v Witter is the modern Benn v Eubank 1 and 2, so be it, but you are so wide of the mark it is untrue.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ...Realistically however, unless Witter manages to get himself showcased on American TV soon, it's not going to happen. Witter has not turned in a single dazzling performance since losing to Judah, nothing he has done has convinced American TV execs that he is a hot property...

Lets cut the bollocks. Come on, lets ask ourselves - had Urango, Maussa and Collazo all genuinely been showcased on US tv? Or had their previous performances really dazzled US tv execs? The answer to both questions is No!

For example; Urango's last fight was a scrappy, no-frills fight for the vacant IBF title. And there is a strong consensus that the lad was lucky to get the decision in what was a far from spectatcular fight. Im also sure that the fight wasnt some grand HBO PPV event, that subsequently made Urango a house-hold name in the US and thus some mass ticket-selling product.

It is not a pre-requisite for Ricky Hatton opponents to have dazzled US tv execs or to have been showcased by them on US tv in order to secure a fight with Ricky Hatton. Therefore why it is condition/issue that is always thrown at Junior Witter By Team Hatton and his supporters?

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ...there is little to be gained for Hatton in fighting him other than bragging rights.

Have you forgotten that Witter is a holder of one of the 'main three' world titles? A belt (interestingly) that Hatton has yet to win! So to answer the question - for the very same reason that Hatton fought Urango, Maussa and Collazo, and for the very same reason that HBO sanctioned them as Hatton opponents, a fight with Witter would gain Hatton a geuine world title, he would be fighting a defending world champion.

Genuinely, why should Witter be made to jump through hoops by Hatton, when the same seemingly doesnt apply to other fighters? Double-standards can not be justified!