BoxRec

This result has taken a lot of the shine from Hattons win over Collazo - Even at 35, Mosley was super against a very ineffective Collazo.

To try and keep things in perspective, I do think we have seen the best of Mosley, this isnt a second coming which makes Hattons result even more devalued.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

dopey wrote:

SticknMove wrote:Body shape and frame can dictate whether fighters can become great muli weight champions. Hatton’s physicality confines him to an extent to the LWW division, where his natural strength and skillset is suited.

Mosley is 5’ 8/9 and looks like a natural WW. ODLH is 5’ 10 and looks a natural LMW. These guys have exceptional all round boxing skills that they were able to bring with them when they moved up. Hatton brings natural aggression and strength to the LWW division which is nullifed at the higher weight. Azumah Nelson was a truly great SFW, whose natural strength and power didn’t translate against the very best at LW. There are just some fighters that will only ever be suited to a single weight division and I think that Hatton falls into that category.

He should concentrate on trying to clean up LWW to secure any lasting legacy. But, alas, I think a big money offer will see him attempting another foray at WW, where he will come undone IMO.

Great post

Bollox what about Tyson (5'9), Henry Armstrong (5'5), Whitaker(5'6), Hamed (5'3), Duran (5'7). They were short and dominated far taller men above their weight divisions.

Hattons very good just never in Mosleys league and theres a reason hes kept away from many a top 10 140lb fighter

You missed the point entirely my friend. I was not comparing Hatton to the names you mentioned above just makng a point that no matter how good a fighter is there is a limit, for even SOME great fighters, in what they can achieve at higher weight divisions. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and these exceptions make up the ATG list of fighters which Hatton isn’t part of and never will be. I used Nelson as an example, because he was a truly great SFW who reigned supreme over his division for 10 years. But what made him a great SFW was lost when he moved up to LW. It doesn’t detract from his greatness but his style and physicality limited him from being a great LW champion. Hatton, because of his style and size is evidently more suited to sticking at LWW. As many people have said, Hatton, for the moment, is just a very good champion and has it all to prove if he is to be considered anything more. His legacy (if he has any over and above beating Tzsyu) will be at LWW IMO, because his skillset will fall short (pardon the pun) at the higher weights.

So to reiterate, there are just SOME fighters and I emphasise SOME fighters that will only ever be suited to a single weight division. Hagler was one and he was great and I think that Hatton is another and he isn’t great, just very good.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

rhino222 wrote:

DG. wrote:Bollox what about Tyson (5'9), Henry Armstrong (5'5), Whitaker(5'6), Hamed (5'3), Duran (5'7). They were short and dominated far taller men above their weight divisions.

Hattons very good just never in Mosleys league and theres a reason hes kept away from many a top 10 140lb fighter

Hatton is just a decent fighter - HYPED TO THE HILLS!

tyson was 5ft 11 actually....

I know hes listed as 5'11 but supposedly his real height is 5'9[/quote]

I've seen footage of him being measured and he was 5' 11 and a half...

I think its clear either:

Hatton peaked before or during the Tszyu fight and is on the slide.

OR

Hatton is not as good as we thought after he had beaten Tszyu.

nickd wrote:I think its clear either:

Hatton peaked before or during the Tszyu fight and is on the slide.

OR

Hatton is not as good as we thought after he had beaten Tszyu.

OR

A move up in weight negated Hatton's main strengths at light welter.

OR

He always has trouble with lefties, or fighters who can match him physically.

My take is that a combination of all four is true.

Ooo a 7lbs move up In weight affected him!

SticknMove wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

dopey wrote: Great post

Bollox what about Tyson (5'9), Henry Armstrong (5'5), Whitaker(5'6), Hamed (5'3), Duran (5'7). They were short and dominated far taller men above their weight divisions.

Hattons very good just never in Mosleys league and theres a reason hes kept away from many a top 10 140lb fighter

You missed the point entirely my friend. I was not comparing Hatton to the names you mentioned above just makng a point that no matter how good a fighter is there is a limit, for even SOME great fighters, in what they can achieve at higher weight divisions. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and these exceptions make up the ATG list of fighters which Hatton isn’t part of and never will be. I used Nelson as an example, because he was a truly great SFW who reigned supreme over his division for 10 years. But what made him a great SFW was lost when he moved up to LW. It doesn’t detract from his greatness but his style and physicality limited him from being a great LW champion. Hatton, because of his style and size is evidently more suited to sticking at LWW. As many people have said, Hatton, for the moment, is just a very good champion and has it all to prove if he is to be considered anything more. His legacy (if he has any over and above beating Tzsyu) will be at LWW IMO, because his skillset will fall short (pardon the pun) at the higher weights.

So to reiterate, there are just SOME fighters and I emphasise SOME fighters that will only ever be suited to a single weight division. Hagler was one and he was great and I think that Hatton is another and he isn’t great, just very good.

Fair enough a good post but I just don't think the reason for Hattons poor showing against Collazo was because of the move up in weight and any difference in size but because he just can't handle that style - at 140 he would have had even tougher outings against Mayweather/Judah/Witter/Mbaiye than Collazo could provide and Mitchell also would have given him similar problems a few years ago. those fights didnt happen and I think it is evident why they didnt happen. Fighters that are faster and better schooled than Hatton give him problems and hes fought few fighters faster than him despite Mayweather/Judah/Witter/Corley/Mbaiye/Mitchell all available for fights none of these ever happened - coincidence?

Regarding Hagler he didnt move up in weight so maybe he would have reigned at a higher weight maybe not. Regarding Nelson he had 2 outings at lightweight 1 against Whitaker who was just too good and another against Leija when he was shot to pieces

glittermonkey wrote:

nickd wrote:I think its clear either:

Hatton peaked before or during the Tszyu fight and is on the slide.

OR

Hatton is not as good as we thought after he had beaten Tszyu.

OR

A move up in weight negated Hatton's main strengths at light welter.

OR

He always has trouble with lefties, or fighters who can match him physically.

My take is that a combination of all four is true.

Or he has problems when hes beaten to the punch by a faster puncher and yes a combination of all those factors could be the case

viciousmaussa wrote:

DG. wrote:

hitman_hatton1 wrote: they both had the frame to go thru the weights.

oscar is 5"11 and shane is 5"9.

hatton is 5"6 and a stocky slugger in style.

julio cesar chavez won world title's in 3 weights and took 9 yrs to get to his 3rd weight.

Let it go Hitman, HATTON is just not THAT good.


Pernell Whittaker was 5ft 6 and went as high as light middle and best THE champ.


Hatton is a good fighter - but not an elite fighter.

You don't struggle with Collazo and Urango if you are the ELITE.

Fact.


Hattons career was summed up last night and he wasn't even fighting.

Whitaker didn't beat THE champ at light midlde. He beat A CHAMP. Norris was the man. Not Vazquez. And Whitaker never faced Norris.

You are being a bit harsh on Hatton - it's clear he's bad against southpaws (Thaxton, Magee anyone?) - but right now he has it all to prove and is getting outshone by a 35 year old.

Mosley is a fighter who will face anyone, take on the toughest to advance his career. Whereas Hatton has to have this and that in his favor, apparently makes last minute financial demands in WBU fights that convinces whomever to not bother coming over (Pinto?), etc.

My apologies - I should have said A REAL CHAMPION at 154lbs.

Vasquez made something like 10/11 defences and how many did Urango and Maussa and Coillazo make between them?.

0 defences???

Hatton is just not that good.

chief wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

rhino222 wrote:

Hatton is just a decent fighter - HYPED TO THE HILLS!

tyson was 5ft 11 actually....

I know hes listed as 5'11 but supposedly his real height is 5'9

I have met Tyson twice. He is about 6 foot tall. His build makes him look shorter. My brother is 5'11" dead and Tyson looked the same if not a shade taller.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

SticknMove wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Bollox what about Tyson (5'9), Henry Armstrong (5'5), Whitaker(5'6), Hamed (5'3), Duran (5'7). They were short and dominated far taller men above their weight divisions.

Hattons very good just never in Mosleys league and theres a reason hes kept away from many a top 10 140lb fighter

You missed the point entirely my friend. I was not comparing Hatton to the names you mentioned above just makng a point that no matter how good a fighter is there is a limit, for even SOME great fighters, in what they can achieve at higher weight divisions. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, and these exceptions make up the ATG list of fighters which Hatton isn’t part of and never will be. I used Nelson as an example, because he was a truly great SFW who reigned supreme over his division for 10 years. But what made him a great SFW was lost when he moved up to LW. It doesn’t detract from his greatness but his style and physicality limited him from being a great LW champion. Hatton, because of his style and size is evidently more suited to sticking at LWW. As many people have said, Hatton, for the moment, is just a very good champion and has it all to prove if he is to be considered anything more. His legacy (if he has any over and above beating Tzsyu) will be at LWW IMO, because his skillset will fall short (pardon the pun) at the higher weights.

So to reiterate, there are just SOME fighters and I emphasise SOME fighters that will only ever be suited to a single weight division. Hagler was one and he was great and I think that Hatton is another and he isn’t great, just very good.

Fair enough a good post but I just don't think the reason for Hattons poor showing against Collazo was because of the move up in weight and any difference in size but because he just can't handle that style - at 140 he would have had even tougher outings against Mayweather/Judah/Witter/Mbaiye than Collazo could provide and Mitchell also would have given him similar problems a few years ago. those fights didnt happen and I think it is evident why they didnt happen. Fighters that are faster and better schooled than Hatton give him problems and hes fought few fighters faster than him despite Mayweather/Judah/Witter/Corley/Mbaiye/Mitchell all available for fights none of these ever happened - coincidence?

Regarding Hagler he didnt move up in weight so maybe he would have reigned at a higher weight maybe not. Regarding Nelson he had 2 outings at lightweight 1 against Whitaker who was just too good and another against Leija when he was shot to pieces

Hatton’s move up in weight may not be the only reason for his unimpressive showing against Collazo, but I think it played an important part and suggests to me that he has no signifcant role to play in this division. As for all the rest of what you say, I wouldn’t disagree with as it is open to claim, counterclaim, speculation and opinion. The fact is Hatton still has it all to prove in terms of any lasting legacy.

As regards Hagler do you really think he would have achieved at LHW what he achieved at MW? And do you think what Nelson achieved at SFW would have been replicated at LW if he had moved up sooner? These guys were naturalised in the divisions they dominated and the size/style issue is an essential ingredient as to why they wouldn’t have been able to make the transition IMO.

Hatton is simply just not has good has most think. I myself was giving Zoo too much credit, but hindsight is a great thing , and in hindsight Zoo was way too inactive and coming o0ff serious injuries for a boxer.

In fact Zoo the more I think about it had been showing signs off slipping in a few previous fights where he was getting outboxed and his punch saved him.

Hatton or rather Warren showed world class matchmaking ability and got Zoo at the right time, But even then he needed the benefit of a very very leniant ref,

Since then Hatton has just kept adding to the list off people ,he is blatently ducking, call it whatever reason you want but lets have it right , The list is a who's who, off boxing, ALL the top notch off his division want a crack at him, simply because of his fan base ,but Ricky ALWAYS has a reason,

We can debater till the cows come home has too wether or not its his fault or Mayweathers fault or Harriss fault or Witter's fault the fights don;t happen,but theres one thing for sure Hatton has the fan base and the backing to be able to have got ANYONE with the exception of Oscar in the ring and even Oscar has expressed a willingness too do it.

The Hatton camp has had no intention off ever cementing a legacy has alltime great , simply because they already think his undeafeted record and his win over an aging Zoo will go down in History has the greatest British boxer ever. and you know what with the win record he has he probably will, and too all the fans its just a case of get facked and show us the money.

KO Artist wrote:

chief wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: tyson was 5ft 11 actually....

I know hes listed as 5'11 but supposedly his real height is 5'9

I have met Tyson twice. He is about 6 foot tall. His build makes him look shorter. My brother is 5'11" dead and Tyson looked the same if not a shade taller.

Somehow I'm quoted as saying he's 5'9 above, however, I've seen him measured and he was 5'11 and a half.. just for the record

Fair enough I'll take Tyson at 5'11, I always thought he was 5'11 until I saw a thread debating his height where people were saying I'm 5'9 stood next to him and was just as tall, or I'm 5'11 and far taller. The point remains he dominated much taller men.

coneye wrote:Hatton is simply just not has good has most think. I myself was giving Zoo too much credit, but hindsight is a great thing , and in hindsight Zoo was way too inactive and coming o0ff serious injuries for a boxer.

In fact Zoo the more I think about it had been showing signs off slipping in a few previous fights where he was getting outboxed and his punch saved him.

Hatton or rather Warren showed world class matchmaking ability and got Zoo at the right time, But even then he needed the benefit of a very very leniant ref,

Since then Hatton has just kept adding to the list off people ,he is blatently ducking, call it whatever reason you want but lets have it right , The list is a who's who, off boxing, ALL the top notch off his division want a crack at him, simply because of his fan base ,but Ricky ALWAYS has a reason,

We can debater till the cows come home has too wether or not its his fault or Mayweathers fault or Harriss fault or Witter's fault the fights don;t happen,but theres one thing for sure Hatton has the fan base and the backing to be able to have got ANYONE with the exception of Oscar in the ring and even Oscar has expressed a willingness too do it.

The Hatton camp has had no intention off ever cementing a legacy has alltime great , simply because they already think his undeafeted record and his win over an aging Zoo will go down in History has the greatest British boxer ever. and you know what with the win record he has he probably will, and too all the fans its just a case of get facked and show us the money.

Well said, I have to agree its just a shame that some of the big fights cant be made like Witter or Cotto or Mayweather.

coneye wrote:Hatton is simply just not has good has most think. I myself was giving Zoo too much credit, but hindsight is a great thing , and in hindsight Zoo was way too inactive and coming o0ff serious injuries for a boxer.

In fact Zoo the more I think about it had been showing signs off slipping in a few previous fights where he was getting outboxed and his punch saved him.

Hatton or rather Warren showed world class matchmaking ability and got Zoo at the right time, But even then he needed the benefit of a very very leniant ref,

Since then Hatton has just kept adding to the list off people ,he is blatently ducking, call it whatever reason you want but lets have it right , The list is a who's who, off boxing, ALL the top notch off his division want a crack at him, simply because of his fan base ,but Ricky ALWAYS has a reason,

We can debater till the cows come home has too wether or not its his fault or Mayweathers fault or Harriss fault or Witter's fault the fights don;t happen,but theres one thing for sure Hatton has the fan base and the backing to be able to have got ANYONE with the exception of Oscar in the ring and even Oscar has expressed a willingness too do it.

The Hatton camp has had no intention off ever cementing a legacy has alltime great , simply because they already think his undeafeted record and his win over an aging Zoo will go down in History has the greatest British boxer ever. and you know what with the win record he has he probably will, and too all the fans its just a case of get facked and show us the money.

Summed him up - we should ignore him niw until he fights someone DECENT and cuts all the PR rubish.


The Boys a decent fighter and that is IT!


All time great? - don't make me laugh.

An old KT inactive for years and he is an all time great?.

Lovemore N;dou would most lkely have beaten that version of KT.

N'dou is a good figther and NOT a al time great.

HATTON IS HYPE HYPE HYPE and I hpe he loses Castillo then he either retires or fights some decent fighters.

viciousmaussa wrote:

KO Artist wrote:

viciousmaussa wrote:One hell of a fighter, Mosley. I think we sometimes take him for granted.

Yes, it does cement the idea that Hatton isn't a superstar. Because yes, who was Collazo before Hatton and who was Collazo after Hatton.

Obviously size had a big part in both fights, Hatton not being able to bully Collazo after 4 rds, Mosley being able to beat on Collazo.

But Mosley's an outstanding boxer and it's good that he's back strong.

You talk about size. Mosley's peak was as a lightweight. He turned pro at 130lbs

he was a massive lightweight who outgrew the division and ended up winning a title at 154!

Mosley may have been a massive Lightweight, but nonethless, he was a Lightweight. Hatton has never scaled 135lbs for a pro fight. Therefore, I do not think there can be so much emphasis on Mosley's so-called size advantage.

Molsey may be muscular, but I doubt he extremely big or anything or the sort. Must remember, muscularity & build are two different things.

Mosley is nowhere near as big as Hatton frame wise. He's nowhere near as broad across the shoulders or back, and his legs are like pipe cleaners compared to Hatton's. He has piled a lot of muscle onto his frame over the years, but hatton is by far the naturally bigger man.

Mosley must have some bloody strong legs though if he truly deadlifts 500-600lbs, I train at a steroid head gym and only 1 of the roid users has done over 500lbs on that lift, I did 540lbs for a single at my peak at it went up very slowly. Deadlifts are true a measure of strength and the name is very descriptive - after a session of deads ive had blackouts

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Mosley must have some bloody strong legs though if he truly deadlifts 500-600lbs, I train at a steroid head gym and only 1 of the roid users has done over 500lbs on that lift, I did 540lbs for a single at my peak at it went up very slowly. Deadlifts are true a measure of strength and the name is very descriptive - after a session of deads ive had blackouts

He does not dead lift that weight.


Apparently he can bench press about 140kg - but tht is not THAT great as
I can do over 110kg and I walk around at 11st 5lbs.


Yes - he is strong - but I doubt he can deadlift 500lbs.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Mosley is nowhere near as big as Hatton frame wise. He's nowhere near as broad across the shoulders or back, and his legs are like pipe cleaners compared to Hatton's. He has piled a lot of muscle onto his frame over the years, but hatton is by far the naturally bigger man.

I agree - remember that hatton steppedn into the ring at 162 on his Welterweight debut. Mosley weighted 154 the other night.


Hatton is much bigger than Mosley and PBF - those guys are all time greats - hatton is not.


Just look at who they have fought and you will see Hatton is STILL living off the KT fight.



Pathetic.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Mosley must have some bloody strong legs though if he truly deadlifts 500-600lbs, I train at a steroid head gym and only 1 of the roid users has done over 500lbs on that lift, I did 540lbs for a single at my peak at it went up very slowly. Deadlifts are true a measure of strength and the name is very descriptive - after a session of deads ive had blackouts

Here's a vid of Ronnie Coleman Deadlifting 800lbs scary shit

DG. wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Mosley must have some bloody strong legs though if he truly deadlifts 500-600lbs, I train at a steroid head gym and only 1 of the roid users has done over 500lbs on that lift, I did 540lbs for a single at my peak at it went up very slowly. Deadlifts are true a measure of strength and the name is very descriptive - after a session of deads ive had blackouts

He does not dead lift that weight.

Apparently he can bench press about 140kg - but tht is not THAT great as
I can do over 110kg and I walk around at 11st 5lbs.

Yes - he is strong - but I doubt he can deadlift 500lbs.

A balanced athlete can deadlift 150% of their bench press so if he does 315lbs (140kg) bench he can pull a 500lb deadlift theoretically.

However the 3 most common things men lie about about is 1. Penis Size 2. Bench Press 3 Sexual Partners