Cooper/Ali(Clay)

[evrenb]

What I believe to be true is this...as boxing news researched it a few years ago..using original tv and radio broadcast...it was 65 seconds...also the glove was proved to be torn prior to the knockdown (photo and film stills)...the most honest reasoning I heard/read was from angelo who said that he made referee tommy little aware of the glove to distract the referee, a ruse. This allowed the corner to use smelling salts under ali's nose (which can be seen in the film). I have the original unedited bbc broadcast obtained 20 years ago...all the timings match...cooper/british were looking for an excuse..a story..which...intermingled with Dundee, the greatest spinner of Ali yarns, storytelling made this an 'urban legend'....a great nite for british boxing history...cooper the most loved fighter in british boxing history. I met him in 1993 when ali came to london town..he was gracious, courteous and a gentleman we unfortunately see so few of these days...an old time londoner...he was also a client of my uncle and unc always regaled me with stories of 'enrys storys...like how he used to keep an 'edgar alan' in the living room of his family house when he was growing up...many stories. He lost his twin brother and then his wife in close succession and after that he threw in the towel to be with them again...a fighter of the people.

[Brutu]

Would you have a link to the boxing news research conclusions?

[evrenb]

Hi

It wasn't online...possibly 40th anniversary in boxing news magazine....i have every weekly boxing news since 1988...how sad lol

[Roars Like Me]

Just for the Mods as I didn't post this thread, very strange

[yancey]

"Cooper had a fantastic left hook, which was nicknamed 'ENRYS 'AMMER. This punch ended many of his 27ko's out of 40 wins. If you get a chance watch Cooper flattening Joe Erskine, great left hook KO. Just goes to show that size doesn't always matter. A 185lb Cooper had Ali in more trouble than Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc... ever did." Controversial



Cooper had Ali in more trouble than Frazier ever did, eh?




You are either insanely biased or quite insane, I'm not sure which.

Thanks for the laugh.

[HomicideHenry]

Cooper's left hook is living proof that if you catch a man at the right place, at the right time, you can make even the toughest of men fall to the canvas. No, it didnt keep Ali there, but his knockdown is more remebered and debated than Frazier's. Sometimes all it takes is a moment to make you a permanent fixture in boxing history, and this fight was Cooper's moment. Jesus bless.

[Brutu]

Yes,that punch,left hook looked shorter then most of Cooper's but it caught Ali right under the right mandibular ramus which would have "jaw-jacked" just about anyone.

[evrenb]

Yes,that punch,left hook looked shorter then most of Cooper's but it caught Ali right under the right mandibular ramus which would have "jaw-jacked" just about anyone.

Sounds like cosell!!

[Brutu]

FACT the delay was measured in seconds not minutes.....this has been debunked many times with the genuine footage. Dundee did bugger with a glove hole to make it worse than it already was....didn't buy him much in the final reel. This fight was not going to go Cooper's way regardless of optimistic revisionism by those with a soft spot for the Union Jack.

Would you please post a link to the "genuine footage"?

[Brutu]

Common sense would believe that Angelo Dundee would have waited and then went to the ref about the torn glove just before the bell was to ring for the Fifth round to maximize the delay they needed to have,
not bring it to the refs attention immediately after Ali sat down on the stool when he was still trying to regain his senses.

[Controversial]

"Cooper had a fantastic left hook, which was nicknamed 'ENRYS 'AMMER. This punch ended many of his 27ko's out of 40 wins. If you get a chance watch Cooper flattening Joe Erskine, great left hook KO. Just goes to show that size doesn't always matter. A 185lb Cooper had Ali in more trouble than Shavers, Foreman, Liston, Frazier etc... ever did." Controversial



Cooper had Ali in more trouble than Frazier ever did, eh?




You are either insanely biased or quite insane, I'm not sure which.

Thanks for the laugh.

Yes as the result of a single punch Cooper did have Ali in more trouble, I didn't mean in general. Ali was all over the place and I still think if Cooper had landed that punch 2 minutes earlier he would've stopped Ali. Of course Frazier gave him a harder fight, I'm not denying that, but as the result of a single punch I can't think of any other fighter that hurt Ali to the same extent.


.

[Brutu]

Henry Cooper remembers and looks back to the fight.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RjHuaW ... pg=PT37&dq

[Controversial]

If you go online and read any of the old newspaper reports after the fight not one mentions any delay between rounds, not that I can find anyway.

[Brutu]

If you go online and read any of the old newspaper reports after the fight not one mentions any delay between rounds, not that I can find anyway.

I take it you are referring to the "sanitised,censored and edited press releases
sent over from the )possibly)biased Yank reporters( if not Angelo Dundee himself )who covered the fight)along with
the film that was mysteriously cut in several sections and had to be spliced together before being broadcast on American television).

[Brutu]

Twenty Years after the fact Angelo Dundee Confesses!!!


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mB ... 6562970&dq

[Controversial]

Brutu are you saying there was a delay or not?

http://www.sport-magazine.co.uk/radar/f ... -clay-4280

A link to an article by UK sportswriter Norman Giller, ringside at the fight and very good friend of Cooper. He said he watched the unedited version and it was only a 66 second break and he admits the length of time gets exaggerated.

[Brutu]

Brutu are you saying there was a delay or not?

http://www.sport-magazine.co.uk/radar/f ... -clay-4280

A link to an article by UK sportswriter Norman Giller, ringside at the fight and very good friend of Cooper. He said he watched the unedited version and it was only a 66 second break and he admits the length of time gets exaggerated.

If Enrey said so then I believe it.
BTW Whose Television archive years later did Norman Giller get into and when did he do it?
The BBC Archives?
They were wiped almost entirely in the early 1970's and I would imagine
the print that they had to get to replace it was the edited American print thay had to obtain
later from Big Fights Inc.to replace their own wiped out copy.
Please show me the original BBC tape(with introductions) of Clay vrs Cooper 1963.

[evrenb]

Brutu are you saying there was a delay or not?

http://www.sport-magazine.co.uk/radar/f ... -clay-4280

A link to an article by UK sportswriter Norman Giller, ringside at the fight and very good friend of Cooper. He said he watched the unedited version and it was only a 66 second break and he admits the length of time gets exaggerated.

If Enrey said so then I believe it.
BTW Whose Television archive years later did Norman Giller get into and when did he do it?
The BBC Archives?
They were wiped almost entirely in the early 1970's and I would imagine
the print that they had to get to replace it was the edited American print thay had to obtain
later from Big Fights Inc.to replace their own wiped out copy.
Please show me the original BBC tape(with introductions) of Clay vrs Cooper 1963.

The comment that the archive was wiped out in the early 70's is not entirely correct. BBC has massive amounts of british fighter based footage...I have the complete version but i am sorry I cannot load it onto web...

[Brutu]

Twenty Years after the fact Angelo Dundee Confesses!!!


http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=mB ... 6562970&dq

"I didn't know how many minutes I gained"
Angelo Dundee(1983)

[Brutu]

Brutu are you saying there was a delay or not?

http://www.sport-magazine.co.uk/radar/f ... -clay-4280

A link to an article by UK sportswriter Norman Giller, ringside at the fight and very good friend of Cooper. He said he watched the unedited version and it was only a 66 second break and he admits the length of time gets exaggerated.

If Enrey said so then I believe it.
BTW Whose Television archive years later did Norman Giller get into and when did he do it?
The BBC Archives?
They were wiped almost entirely in the early 1970's and I would imagine
the print that they had to get to replace it was the edited American print thay had to obtain
later from Big Fights Inc.to replace their own wiped out copy.
Please show me the original BBC tape(with introductions) of Clay vrs Cooper 1963.

The comment that the archive was wiped out in the early 70's is not entirely correct. BBC has massive amounts of british fighter based footage...I have the complete version but i am sorry I cannot load it onto web...

LOL Would you also download Joe Bugner vrs Ray Patterson that appeared on the BBC-1 show GRANDSTAND April.21.1970 while you are at it please?

[evrenb]

The comment that the archive was wiped out in the early 70's is not entirely correct. BBC has massive amounts of british fighter based footage...I have the complete version but i am sorry I cannot load it onto web...[/quote]

LOL Would you also download Joe Bugner vrs Roy Patterson that appeared on the BBC-TV show Grandstand while you are at it please?[/quote]


lol - I dont get that one ???

[Brutu]

Why the World wide search for Doctor Who episodes?
That show was practically a British Institution.

[Brutu]

Actually Joe Bugner vrs Ray Patterson may still exist,I think there is a brief clip of it
on the Bugner and Henry Cooper documentary.

[evrenb]

Why the World wide search for Doctor Who episodes?
That show was practically a British Institution.

Yeah that was tragic...if you are a fan of Doctor Who!! They done the same with Steptoe and Son.
Boxing wise they have much footage...I know this first hand for a fact..

evren

[Brutu]

The BBC-TV also wiped out the video-tapes of their live coverage of the Apollo 11 Moon landings
of July 1969.