just a thought.. did vann cost earl the fight...

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 19 Feb 2007, 08:26

I just seen the fight it was a real good one not unlike most of Katsides other 22 fights, I think the ref was a bit biased one of the low blows was bullshit and the other borderline. I think Earl is getting to much praise he got his ass kicked from start to finish apart from the second round when he caught Katsides off gaurd. I will say this but Earl has a big heart and good chin as many of Katsides opponents have folded after 1 shot never mind the 50 or so he took. I have to disagree with the ref throwing out the towel Earl might never be the same fighter after that fight and he took a hell of a beating in the last 3 rounds after the towel was disallowed.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:11

I thought Kat was taking just as much punishment and his face showed It.

I feel Earl was pulled out too early though, Kat was looking gassed.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:18

Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:23

I thought Katsides was a bit more controlled than in other fights, he's obviously worked on shortning up his hooks, as they were not that wild on Saturday night.
Will be interesting when someone takes him past 7-8 rounds, he puts so much into his shots early on that he's got to be shattered late on.

some good matches out there for Katsides, you've got Lara , Raheem , Barrios and Peterson all ranked inside the top 15, like to see any of those against Katsides.

Willie Limond is ranked 10, so he may even get a shot, couldn't see him winning , but it would be a good payday.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:29

Willie Limond is ranked 10, so he may even get a shot, couldn't see him winning , but it would be a good payday.

Why not? Kat's mostly strong and hits hard.

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 19 Feb 2007, 09:54

I don't think Earl can have any complaints. Katsides was the better man in the night.

If the alphabet boys had world titles for courage, Graham would already be a champion. I knew Earl had guts but he went above and beyond reason.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 19 Feb 2007, 10:04

Yeah I don't think you can compare the damage Katsides' punches were doing to Earl and vice versa. Katsides may have been gassed but it was worrying how many times Earl's head was being snapped back.

salaco · Post by **salaco** » 19 Feb 2007, 10:26

Max Molyneux wrote:I thought Kat was taking just as much punishment and his face showed It.

I feel Earl was pulled out too early though, Kat was looking gassed.

You must be joking, enerytime katsidis caught up with him and they started to trade, Katsidis looked like the stronger and bigger guy, Katsidis obviously didn't think a great deal of earl's power since he completely abandoned all defence and just tried to steamroll him...Earl was (un)lucky he was allowed to stay in so long....

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 11:12

TerribleTerry wrote:
bennie wrote:How good is Katsidis? The new Fenech.
He was exciting in the same way that Fenech was but if he equals the Marrickville Mauler's acheivements of world titles at 3 (nearly 4!) weights then I will eat my hat.

He is strong, hard hitting with a high punch output but I will reserve judgemet until I see him in with a world class fighter with an effective jab.

He's certainly not up to Fenech yet, still very raw, a good boxer could give him trouble and also a fighter who can take his punches and then come back may grind him down but having said that he's a great talent and great to watch... if he;s developed right he could really be big imo, the Yanks would love him..... I thought Vanns performance abysmal really, his counts were as slow as treackle and ignoring the corners towel could have been foolhardy, Earl took a terrible drubbing, I havent seen a fighter take so many headshots since Gatti vs Ward 1 ...huge heart but painful to watch at times, all credit to Earls corner for pulling him out when they did, makes a welcome change to what usually goes on and may well have saved Earls career in the longterm...

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 19 Feb 2007, 13:05

what??? why didnt they pull him out at the end of the round that the towel came in then?
vann got it right - eames got it wrong

Andy Mac · Post by **Andy Mac** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:00

nickd wrote:Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.

Nailed.

Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:11

Andy Mac wrote:
nickd wrote:Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.
Nailed. Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.

OK then. Bearing in mind that Earl almost sparked the lad seconds after Vann rejected the towel, don't you think that was a good reffing call?

Jesus, I'm the last person to pour cold water on Sports Network conspiracy theories but come on.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:14

harrygreb wrote:what??? why didnt they pull him out at the end of the round that the towel came in then?
vann got it right - eames got it wrong

Eames got it wrong?... how did you work that out?.... did you see Earl at the end of the fight, dased and walking to the wrong corner!... I think eames did the right thing pulling him out when he did... ok Vann throwing the towel back out earlier gave us all a better fight but Earl took a hell of a lot more shots after that and still lost the fight, it would probably have been better for him if he'd been pulled out in the 2nd.... How can you criticise a trainer for looking after his fighter?...

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:14

Andy Mac wrote:
nickd wrote:Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.
Nailed. Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.

im not convinced that the standing 8 count is still applicable in the pro game, im happy to be proved wrong...

where is howard foster posting when we need him !!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:16

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Andy Mac wrote:
nickd wrote:Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.
Nailed. Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.
OK then. Bearing in mind that Earl almost sparked the lad seconds after Vann rejected the towel, don't you think that was a good reffing call?

Jesus, I'm the last person to pour cold water on Sports Network conspiracy theories but come on.

More the case of the ref being lucky that Earl has such a big heart, rather than Vann doing a great job reffing!... if Earl had got hurt in there what would your view be then??......

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:19

What are the rules concerning the towel?... is the ref obliged to ignore it or is it at his discresion?. I've heard that the ref can ignore the doctors advise as well if he wants?.. ...is this true?.... sounds rather irregular to me, surely a corner knows the condition of their man better than the ref, are we to put entertainment and winning before safety??...

ciscokid · Post by **ciscokid** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:21

rhino222 wrote:good pic, maybe his arsed touched down...maybe not...

His ass did touch the floor - you can see the bounce in the video - I have the video at home (I am working away else I would have put it on youtube), also you can see his left leg is touching the floor - i thought that if any part of the leg touches the canvas then this is classed as a knockdown.

One thing that did strike me was Earl's apperance - he seemed distance even before the fight and much more after - not sure if he's took one too many blows to the head??

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:23

rhino222 wrote:
Andy Mac wrote:
nickd wrote:Vann's counts for Earl were pretty slow, and then giving him a few extra seconds after the count to compose himself. He is the SN house referee no doubt about that he always gives the home corner every advantage he can.
Nailed. Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.
im not convinced that the standing 8 count is still applicable in the pro game, im happy to be proved wrong...

where is howard foster posting when we need him !!

I'm sure that a fighter can only be given a standing 8 count if he's touched down or been caught up on the ropes... the Aussie didnt touch down as far as I saw and he certainly wasnt caught on the ropes, so why was he given a count?.... :x

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Feb 2007, 15:26

ciscokid wrote:
rhino222 wrote:good pic, maybe his arsed touched down...maybe not...
His ass did touch the floor - you can see the bounce in the video - I have the video at home (I am working away else I would have put it on youtube), also you can see his left leg is touching the floor - i thought that if any part of the leg touches the canvas then this is classed as a knockdown.

One thing that did strike me was Earl's apperance - he seemed distance even before the fight and much more after - not sure if he's took one too many blows to the head??

Yeah, yet theres still some saying that he shouldnt have been pulled out!!... he was certainly badly dazed at the end of the fight... and didnt seem 100% in the post fight interview...

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 20 Feb 2007, 06:59

silkov wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Andy Mac wrote: Nailed. Plus a ref can give a standing 8 count whether a fighter is on the ropes or not, so i dont see the point rhino is trying to make in his 1st post.
OK then. Bearing in mind that Earl almost sparked the lad seconds after Vann rejected the towel, don't you think that was a good reffing call?

Jesus, I'm the last person to pour cold water on Sports Network conspiracy theories but come on.
More the case of the ref being lucky that Earl has such a big heart, rather than Vann doing a great job reffing!... if Earl had got hurt in there what would your view be then??......

Answer the question - if Eames was right to throw the towel in during the second round, why didn't he pull him out at the end of the round when he had the chance?

No objections whatsoever to Earl being pulled out and it was correct to do so - but if Eames was right to throw in the towel when he did, he would have pulled him at the end of the second.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Feb 2007, 07:11

I think if Earl hadn't nailed Kastidis with that shot and hurt him then Eames would have pulled him out at the end of the second.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Feb 2007, 07:39

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
silkov wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote: OK then. Bearing in mind that Earl almost sparked the lad seconds after Vann rejected the towel, don't you think that was a good reffing call?

Jesus, I'm the last person to pour cold water on Sports Network conspiracy theories but come on.
More the case of the ref being lucky that Earl has such a big heart, rather than Vann doing a great job reffing!... if Earl had got hurt in there what would your view be then??......
Answer the question - if Eames was right to throw the towel in during the second round, why didn't he pull him out at the end of the round when he had the chance?

No objections whatsoever to Earl being pulled out and it was correct to do so - but if Eames was right to throw in the towel when he did, he would have pulled him at the end of the second.

Well its not rocket science, Eames let Earl go out for the 3rd because he had shaken the Aussie with a punch, but that doesnt mean that Eames wasnt correct in trying to pull Earl out just moments earlier, ....the fact that Earl was eventually pulled out bears this out... other than entertaining the fans the only thing Earl gained from going those extra rounds was taking a couple more dozen punches to the head which will most likely do him no good at all in the long run... he would have been better off had the fight been stopped in the second....

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 20 Feb 2007, 07:40

silkov wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
silkov wrote: More the case of the ref being lucky that Earl has such a big heart, rather than Vann doing a great job reffing!... if Earl had got hurt in there what would your view be then??......
Answer the question - if Eames was right to throw the towel in during the second round, why didn't he pull him out at the end of the round when he had the chance?

No objections whatsoever to Earl being pulled out and it was correct to do so - but if Eames was right to throw in the towel when he did, he would have pulled him at the end of the second.
Well its not rocket science, Eames let Earl go out for the 3rd because he had shaken the Aussie with a punch, but that doesnt mean that Eames wasnt correct in trying to pull Earl out just moments earlier, ....the fact that Earl was eventually pulled out bears this out... other than entertaining the fans the only thing Earl gained from going those extra rounds was taking a couple more dozen punches to the head which will most likely do him no good at all in the long run... he would have been better off had the fight been stopped in the second....

Couple more dozen? And the rest!! ;)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Feb 2007, 08:08

nickd wrote:
silkov wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote: Answer the question - if Eames was right to throw the towel in during the second round, why didn't he pull him out at the end of the round when he had the chance?

No objections whatsoever to Earl being pulled out and it was correct to do so - but if Eames was right to throw in the towel when he did, he would have pulled him at the end of the second.
Well its not rocket science, Eames let Earl go out for the 3rd because he had shaken the Aussie with a punch, but that doesnt mean that Eames wasnt correct in trying to pull Earl out just moments earlier, ....the fact that Earl was eventually pulled out bears this out... other than entertaining the fans the only thing Earl gained from going those extra rounds was taking a couple more dozen punches to the head which will most likely do him no good at all in the long run... he would have been better off had the fight been stopped in the second....
Couple more dozen? And the rest!! ;)

Yeah, exactly... what about when he was caught on the ropes, must have taken about 30+ punches then alone... to be honest I didnt enjoy seeing that, too onesided for my liking... good job for Earl that Eames isnt as brave as Vann... thank Christ for commonsense

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 20 Feb 2007, 09:03

'It's not rocket science' yet you can't seem to grasp it. Stop making Eames out to be a saint. He let his man go another three rounds after the round in which he threw in the towel.

Eames had several opportunities to stop the contest and let several go past before calling a halt.

Vann was right to refuse the towel because

1 Earl wasn't in DEEP trouble at that point
2 He was fighting back
3 Soon after Earl nearly knocked him out

Yet Vann is the twat in all this?