McClellan article inaccuracies

[Autobarn]

I think it was a fussy ref, no doubt there. But this round one has been turned into a scandal that never was.

I've just watched it again. Benn was back in the ring around the 10 mark after going down. McClellan sprinted at the ref and therefore made to go back a ways to restart the action. This is normal.

McClellan pummels away with Benn on the ropes, as the action resumes. It gets messy, they clinch hard, the ref Asaro seperates them. McClellan right behind Asaro again, trying to push him out the way, for which he's again made to get back. Nothing out of the ordinary.

MCC tees off again, they clinch, Asaro breaks them same time as McC sidesteps.

Action resumes, Benn starts to meet McClellan's fire. Tangle. Get seperated. Benn gets warned for holding/pushing. Action resumes quickly.

Benn lands a corker of a left hook off the ropes, as McClellan struggles to punch down with long punches. Wrestle a bit, Benn attacked on ropes again, clinch. Seperated & Asaro warns Benn for holding.

(Okay, ref didn't need to do that, but this took up a second or two & by this time Benn wasn't exactly on the verge of a KO loss)

With 30 secs left of rd 1, Benn lands 2 terrific left hooks, they tangle, Benn pushes him back, and starts tearing into the body...


*only points of contention I see are when McClellan is straight behind the ref and made to get back.

[jamesmcdonnell]

McClellan did say "I have a tremendous headache" after that 1st Jackson fight. But I think anyone would.

I think Nigel deserved the benefit of the doubt in round 1. He wasn't spent the way he was vs Watson or Eubank 1 - that was Benn helpless.

Here he was shellshocked having taken hard shots on the top of the head, and needing to get his legs under him. He also appeared to be outweighed by a lot and was hit while he was down.

Not seen the fight for a while. The ref did some breaks - plenty - but I recall the action being messy. Was Benn ducking too low or was that exaggerated by McClellan being 6' 2?

Benn was almost kissing the bloody canvas mate, you make it sound like McClellan was Valuev or something.

Benn was entitled to do whatever he needed to do to survive, the guy was trying to smash his head in, but the refereeing in that fight in my opinion, was inept and seemed geared to extending the fight beyond the first round. There were way too many inexplicable breaks in the action, with the referee intervening as McClellan tried to close in and finish Benn off. You can see Gerald's frustration when he shoves the referee out of the way.

This takes nothing away from Benn's achievement, very few men would have come back to win that fight.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Well, here we shall have to beg to differ Terrence mate. I do agree that McClellan was smothering his own work, but I've watched the fight many times, and come to the conclusion that the ref provided an irksome obstacle, and without that obstacle, Gerald would have landed enough clean shots to finish it. Bear in mind it's hard to land clean punches when someones head is by their knees.

[Autobarn]

McClellan did say "I have a tremendous headache" after that 1st Jackson fight. But I think anyone would.

I think Nigel deserved the benefit of the doubt in round 1. He wasn't spent the way he was vs Watson or Eubank 1 - that was Benn helpless.

Here he was shellshocked having taken hard shots on the top of the head, and needing to get his legs under him. He also appeared to be outweighed by a lot and was hit while he was down.

Not seen the fight for a while. The ref did some breaks - plenty - but I recall the action being messy. Was Benn ducking too low or was that exaggerated by McClellan being 6' 2?

Benn was almost kissing the bloody canvas mate, you make it sound like McClellan was Valuev or something.

Benn was entitled to do whatever he needed to do to survive, the guy was trying to smash his head in, but the refereeing in that fight in my opinion, was inept and seemed geared to extending the fight beyond the first round. There were way too many inexplicable breaks in the action, with the referee intervening as McClellan tried to close in and finish Benn off. You can see Gerald's frustration when he shoves the referee out of the way.

This takes nothing away from Benn's achievement, very few men would have come back to win that fight.

It was low, but each sequence was quite brief. 6' 2 is pretty big for a super middle

IMO Benn was clearly the better fighter, winning most of the rds apart from 1, 3 and 8.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yes, Gerald definetly got overanxious to get the finish, had he stepped back he could have made things easy on himself, but i think also he possibly was anxious because the ref kept standing between the two of them, so wanted to get in close and do the business.

[Autobarn]

There were 4 big 'seperations.'

2 can be interpreted as you will. McClellan was @ the ref's back and made to retreat which is standard as far as I know. 2nd time he pushed Asaro, which can lead to a ticking off.

3rd and 4th times, Benn was already firing back left hooks. Interestingly, it was BENN who got warnings both these times for holding. He'd already survived the worst of it, and though McC was irritated, these were very brief and the KO chance had already gone.

It's a bit of a myth that Nigel should have beeen KO1'd!

[Autobarn]

Thik, paranoid and weird, to boot!

Have you seen how he's been deleting posts (along with his Mickey Vann let Benn survive charge)?

I wonder how many innocents Pedro helped put away! Would hate to trust his hunches. The guy thinks he's Popeye Doyle.

[Andy Mac]

The ref really did keep pushing McClellan off for no reason whatsoever in the opening round, that really is an inescapable fact to anyone who watches the video. Im not saying that with any axe to grind, i just dont see how anyone can say otherwise unless it fits in with whatever agenda on.

And im not being pro-Gman or anti-Benn, just anti-ref. Guy was crooked and/or inept from what i can see.

That was simply because it is illegal to hit the back of your opponents head and neck. Nigel was ducking lower than the belt line, and should have been stopped from doing that, but the ref was right to stop McClellan from hitting Benn with illegal blows.

By the way does anyone know the rule regarding being knocked out of the ring, as opposed to being pushed. Has there been a change, as I was under the impression that it was just your problem, and you still only got 10 seconds to get back in, and beat the count.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If that is all your opponent is offering, what are you supposed to do?

It's very poor officiating indeed to allow a fighter to do that, and keep admonishing his opponent when he is hitting the only available target.

[fried bread]

It was only a couple of times when he was ducking low. After the knockdown in the 1st and then perhaps another barrage after that.

[Andy Mac]

If that is all your opponent is offering, what are you supposed to do?

It's very poor officiating indeed to allow a fighter to do that, and keep admonishing his opponent when he is hitting the only available target.

James I totally agree with you. I'm merely pointing out the illegality of it, plus the fact that the ref didn't pull Benn up for his infringement. I just didn't want to accuse him of bias is all.

[dondada]

By the way does anyone know the rule regarding being knocked out of the ring, as opposed to being pushed. Has there been a change, as I was under the impression that it was just your problem, and you still only got 10 seconds to get back in, and beat the count.

You get 20 seconds if you've been knocked out of the ring, I think.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Indeed you do, same as wrestling, except that fighters don't always make it JUST before they reach 20.

[Taki...]

Ringtalk's Pedro Fernandez has just done a piece on McClellan

1) He says that "referee Mickey Vann (a trash hauler by trade) did everything to help Benn"

2) "anywhere else it would've been a 1st round KO"

3) that McClellan was injured because of the weight he dropped in the last couple of days.

Now, hang on a minute.

1) The ref was a Frenchman, and McClellan was smothering his work anyways.

2) Benn was hit while he was down, and was given more time to continue because he went out the ropes which is allowed. Given his "wounded lion" reputation, who was going to stop Benn for taking a battering? It's not like many ppl even wanted Benn to win at the time.

3) That ginger haired doctor, in the Ring, has said there's no proof that subdural hematomas are caused by draining weight (& lessening brain cushioning fluid). All the 90s middles/s middles had weight issues. Michael Watson was also injured in a super middle fight, but that seems due to his head whipping off the bottom rope.


Here's the article -

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?actio ... =1&id=1151

have to agree with pedro on this, as i've been saying the same thing sice fight night!!

1. french ref alfred azaro did the worst reffing job i have ever seen!! constantly pulling gerald off when he had benn virtually finished in the 1st!! azaro was normally a ringside judge and this was in fact, his 1ST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AS A REF!! so bad was hiw work that the WBC didnt allow him to ref another world title fight for 5 years!! the ref also permitted an inordinate amount of rabbit punches throughout the match by benn also!!

2. there have been numerous medical studies on the increased danger of brain trauma to a significantly dehydrated fighter, which is why gerald OFTEN came in 12-15 pounds heavier AFTER the weighin!!

3. on my showtime network video (perhaps different camera angle than the british telecast) several ringsiders appear to be pushing benn thru the ropes as he goes back thru the ropes!!

4. some believe significant trauma could have caused by the flying "accidental" headbutt which benn administered after missing a ridiculous round-house right hand in the later rounds and went crashing into g-man's forehead with his!!

Your showtime tape must be a different camera because my tape shows people reaching up as Benn comes through the ropes (a natural reaction) but the most that happens (and no serious contact is made) is that they touch the back of his head. Benn himself rises and climbs back through the ropes before the count of 10. A clip of the KD can be found on youtube and you can clearly see NO assistance is given to Benn.

I also think it's odd that McClellan is cited as dropping a lot of weight late on, yet he was the one moving up in weight by 8lbs. Surely that sort of thing is 100% his and his trainers fault.

Also, it is impossible to pinpoint the moment (if there was one) that McClellan recieved his injury. It is just as possible that an innocuous jab did the damage as a clash of heads. Conjecture is pointless.

[shoutout]

Ringtalk's Pedro Fernandez has just done a piece on McClellan

1) He says that "referee Mickey Vann (a trash hauler by trade) did everything to help Benn"

2) "anywhere else it would've been a 1st round KO"

3) that McClellan was injured because of the weight he dropped in the last couple of days.

Now, hang on a minute.

1) The ref was a Frenchman, and McClellan was smothering his work anyways.

2) Benn was hit while he was down, and was given more time to continue because he went out the ropes which is allowed. Given his "wounded lion" reputation, who was going to stop Benn for taking a battering? It's not like many ppl even wanted Benn to win at the time.

3) That ginger haired doctor, in the Ring, has said there's no proof that subdural hematomas are caused by draining weight (& lessening brain cushioning fluid). All the 90s middles/s middles had weight issues. Michael Watson was also injured in a super middle fight, but that seems due to his head whipping off the bottom rope.


Here's the article -

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?actio ... =1&id=1151

have to agree with pedro on this, as i've been saying the same thing sice fight night!!

1. french ref alfred azaro did the worst reffing job i have ever seen!! constantly pulling gerald off when he had benn virtually finished in the 1st!! azaro was normally a ringside judge and this was in fact, his 1ST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AS A REF!! so bad was hiw work that the WBC didnt allow him to ref another world title fight for 5 years!! the ref also permitted an inordinate amount of rabbit punches throughout the match by benn also!!

2. there have been numerous medical studies on the increased danger of brain trauma to a significantly dehydrated fighter, which is why gerald OFTEN came in 12-15 pounds heavier AFTER the weighin!!

3. on my showtime network video (perhaps different camera angle than the british telecast) several ringsiders appear to be pushing benn thru the ropes as he goes back thru the ropes!!

4. some believe significant trauma could have caused by the flying "accidental" headbutt which benn administered after missing a ridiculous round-house right hand in the later rounds and went crashing into g-man's forehead with his!!

Your showtime tape must be a different camera because my tape shows people reaching up as Benn comes through the ropes (a natural reaction) but the most that happens (and no serious contact is made) is that they touch the back of his head. Benn himself rises and climbs back through the ropes before the count of 10. A clip of the KD can be found on youtube and you can clearly see NO assistance is given to Benn.

I also think it's odd that McClellan is cited as dropping a lot of weight late on, yet he was the one moving up in weight by 8lbs. Surely that sort of thing is 100% his and his trainers fault.

Also, it is impossible to pinpoint the moment (if there was one) that McClellan recieved his injury. It is just as possible that an innocuous jab did the damage as a clash of heads. Conjecture is pointless.

nobody from UK that i have communicated with sees the outside assistance that numerous americans have noticed...that is why i am assuming the different telecasts were taken from different angles---not the least bit unusual in a major international matchup!!

[Andy Mac]

Ringtalk's Pedro Fernandez has just done a piece on McClellan

1) He says that "referee Mickey Vann (a trash hauler by trade) did everything to help Benn"

2) "anywhere else it would've been a 1st round KO"

3) that McClellan was injured because of the weight he dropped in the last couple of days.

Now, hang on a minute.

1) The ref was a Frenchman, and McClellan was smothering his work anyways.

2) Benn was hit while he was down, and was given more time to continue because he went out the ropes which is allowed. Given his "wounded lion" reputation, who was going to stop Benn for taking a battering? It's not like many ppl even wanted Benn to win at the time.

3) That ginger haired doctor, in the Ring, has said there's no proof that subdural hematomas are caused by draining weight (& lessening brain cushioning fluid). All the 90s middles/s middles had weight issues. Michael Watson was also injured in a super middle fight, but that seems due to his head whipping off the bottom rope.


Here's the article -

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?actio ... =1&id=1151

have to agree with pedro on this, as i've been saying the same thing sice fight night!!

1. french ref alfred azaro did the worst reffing job i have ever seen!! constantly pulling gerald off when he had benn virtually finished in the 1st!! azaro was normally a ringside judge and this was in fact, his 1ST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AS A REF!! so bad was hiw work that the WBC didnt allow him to ref another world title fight for 5 years!! the ref also permitted an inordinate amount of rabbit punches throughout the match by benn also!!

2. there have been numerous medical studies on the increased danger of brain trauma to a significantly dehydrated fighter, which is why gerald OFTEN came in 12-15 pounds heavier AFTER the weighin!!

3. on my showtime network video (perhaps different camera angle than the british telecast) several ringsiders appear to be pushing benn thru the ropes as he goes back thru the ropes!!

4. some believe significant trauma could have caused by the flying "accidental" headbutt which benn administered after missing a ridiculous round-house right hand in the later rounds and went crashing into g-man's forehead with his!!

Your showtime tape must be a different camera because my tape shows people reaching up as Benn comes through the ropes (a natural reaction) but the most that happens (and no serious contact is made) is that they touch the back of his head. Benn himself rises and climbs back through the ropes before the count of 10. A clip of the KD can be found on youtube and you can clearly see NO assistance is given to Benn.

I also think it's odd that McClellan is cited as dropping a lot of weight late on, yet he was the one moving up in weight by 8lbs. Surely that sort of thing is 100% his and his trainers fault.

Also, it is impossible to pinpoint the moment (if there was one) that McClellan recieved his injury. It is just as possible that an innocuous jab did the damage as a clash of heads. Conjecture is pointless.

You are on the money again Taki. Benn is on the apron, with his head over the commentary table. One of the commentary team puts his hand out to stop Nigels head hitting the table or the equipment. Benn then hauls himself up using the ropes. At no time did his body leave the ring apron, or indeed even look like it was going to.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Ringtalk's Pedro Fernandez has just done a piece on McClellan

1) He says that "referee Mickey Vann (a trash hauler by trade) did everything to help Benn"

2) "anywhere else it would've been a 1st round KO"

3) that McClellan was injured because of the weight he dropped in the last couple of days.

Now, hang on a minute.

1) The ref was a Frenchman, and McClellan was smothering his work anyways.

2) Benn was hit while he was down, and was given more time to continue because he went out the ropes which is allowed. Given his "wounded lion" reputation, who was going to stop Benn for taking a battering? It's not like many ppl even wanted Benn to win at the time.

3) That ginger haired doctor, in the Ring, has said there's no proof that subdural hematomas are caused by draining weight (& lessening brain cushioning fluid). All the 90s middles/s middles had weight issues. Michael Watson was also injured in a super middle fight, but that seems due to his head whipping off the bottom rope.


Here's the article -

http://www.ringtalk.com/index.php?actio ... =1&id=1151

have to agree with pedro on this, as i've been saying the same thing sice fight night!!

1. french ref alfred azaro did the worst reffing job i have ever seen!! constantly pulling gerald off when he had benn virtually finished in the 1st!! azaro was normally a ringside judge and this was in fact, his 1ST WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHT AS A REF!! so bad was hiw work that the WBC didnt allow him to ref another world title fight for 5 years!! the ref also permitted an inordinate amount of rabbit punches throughout the match by benn also!!

2. there have been numerous medical studies on the increased danger of brain trauma to a significantly dehydrated fighter, which is why gerald OFTEN came in 12-15 pounds heavier AFTER the weighin!!

3. on my showtime network video (perhaps different camera angle than the british telecast) several ringsiders appear to be pushing benn thru the ropes as he goes back thru the ropes!!

4. some believe significant trauma could have caused by the flying "accidental" headbutt which benn administered after missing a ridiculous round-house right hand in the later rounds and went crashing into g-man's forehead with his!!

Your showtime tape must be a different camera because my tape shows people reaching up as Benn comes through the ropes (a natural reaction) but the most that happens (and no serious contact is made) is that they touch the back of his head. Benn himself rises and climbs back through the ropes before the count of 10. A clip of the KD can be found on youtube and you can clearly see NO assistance is given to Benn.

I also think it's odd that McClellan is cited as dropping a lot of weight late on, yet he was the one moving up in weight by 8lbs. Surely that sort of thing is 100% his and his trainers fault.

Also, it is impossible to pinpoint the moment (if there was one) that McClellan recieved his injury. It is just as possible that an innocuous jab did the damage as a clash of heads. Conjecture is pointless.

Indeed, Gerald starts blinking before that headbutt lands. As for the mouthpiece business, from what I read from Manny Steward, apparently the mouthpiece they brought for gerald wasn't his own, and didn't fit him properly, which is why he kept pushing it out.

As for McClellan dropping weight, if he was moving up in weight and STILL managed to have to cut weight, then that's nobody's fault but his and his training camps.

[Autobarn]

Much has been made that Gerald was only 165 on fight night. But his previous fights were all below 160 (official weights).

[jamesmcdonnell]

Which only fuels my argument!

Gerald was really a blown up light middleweight, so how on earth was he struggling to come in at 168! Utter bollocks.

[Autobarn]

I don't know about light middle. Gerald was a big bloke. He obviously cut weight to have the big advantage in size & it must've been a chore at 160 and 168, but that was his approach to fighting.

[boxingchat]

Gary Newbon - but if you watch the tape it's not much of a push more a token gesture.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If Gerald was coming in under the 160 limit, then coming in at 168 should have been a joy by comparison.

[Autobarn]

Anyone seen that paranoid cop trying to cover his tracks? Every response to his piece that mention "libel" has been scrupulously deleted. Squirm Like A Worm, Mr "straightest writer in boxing"!

The US ringside press seem to have a very low opinion of Pedro Fernandez. He's always looking for a target - from the Warren/Hatton-Pinto contract, to Boxrec itself (not all the records are accurate) to respected writers and officials.

I recall Katz calling him a "muckraker" and getting him banned from Chee's News Wire. Fernandez replies, writing a column that declares "Katz' collar smells like piss".

[jamesmcdonnell]

A line which he nicked from James Toney in any case.....

I've sat behind Katz at ringside, and I must say, I didn't notice his collar smelling of anything.

[MightyWarrior]

I used to think Fernandez was a pretty decent reporter back in the 80's - he wrote for the bi-weekly boxing subscription papers - Boxing Update and Boxing Flash - along with a lot of other good writers like Graham Houston.

It was a bit like the legendary ( and original ) FLASH boxing paper from the early 80's - full of scandal and behind the scenes info, and subscription only - until the publisher went stark raving mad I believe.

Anyway, Pedro seems to have lost the plot completely.