BoxRec

haha, look at them come out to defend Calzaghe's opposition!

Kessler's beaten Beyer (skilled southpaw), Andrade (huge guy, big slugger), Mundine (fast, slick and highly talented) and competent, physcally big, sluggers like Lucas and Siaca. He did this in a 3 year period - ALL of whom were top 10 ranked. These were all different styles and Kessler controlled all except Mundine, where he had to come out of his element to get the W.

If Siaca & Lucas were on Joe's record you'd be bigging them up and finding a positive context, i.e. "Siaca got a raw deal v Mitchell, Lucas gave Beyer a good fight."

Calzaghe normally faces a straight ahead slugger if it's a top 10 fighter, usually just past his prime and desperate to get back. If anyone thinks Joe would have come out vs Andrade unscathed you have to be joking. Joe is easy to his and he'd need 9 punch combos to keep Andrade off.

Calzaghe frequently reaches out of the top 10 for his opponent. Manfredo joins such luminaries as Bika and Salem. In fact, I'd like to ask, what were Pudwill, McIntrye, were they even top 100?

My god, the old "he beat Brewer, Mithell" broken record! Yeah, Calzaghe beat some guys over 10 years. Which has easily been equalled by Kessler in THREE.

Only way Joe saves his rep is if he beats Kessler. The way I see it, it should already be too late to care. How can you fvck the world title up for the bulk of ten years? Joe's going to get what's coming to him, a beating by Kessler. Sould we forgive Joe? Only if he takes good fights in his own division.

No I agree with you on most things, except that Andrade was easily on the same level as Lacy, Mitchell, Brewer.. pure speculation and nothing backs it up.

Calzaghe would have easily outboxed Andrade but you're right Joe probably wouldn't have looked great since like you said, he sometimes fights down to his opponents level, in this case Andrade being poor. Plus Kessler hardly came out unscathed did he. Shit even Manfredo knows the basics!

haha, look at them come out to defend Calzaghe's opposition!

Haha, look at you getting frustrated.

Lucas was coming off a year of Inactivity and was past it since Danny Green destroyed him. Beyer fought Lucas while he had something left before Green. He was totally shot when Kessler won every round against him.

Siaca Is limited and hasn't fought since Silvio Branco widely out pointed him showing how limited he is.

Kessler fought Mundine right after he beat Siaca who Mundine beat, Mundine's come on since at handpicked opponents other than Green which was a good win.

You were defending Bika until he was beat by Joe.

Joe would of easily demolished Andrade.

Who cares what time they've done what In, Joe's record Is equal to Mikkel's except for guys like Pudwill.

Joe's going to get what's coming to him, a beating by Kessler.

Well, It's your opinion.

Joe would of easily demolished Andrade

like he easily demolished Ashira, Bika and Salem?

we should all just be happy both parties are now talking up the fight and hopefully if it happens both sides will recognise the winner and not point to excuses

lvlarc wrote: Mitchell had beaten Siaca twice, stopped Green and most think he deserved a win over Ottke,

No. Hardly anyone thinks that.

either way it was close.

Ottke was up 7-2 after 9 rounds -- it was not close.

Max Molyneux wrote:Adapts to styles? The Kessler fights I've seen he's the same.

You think Kessler fougth the same against Andrade as he did against Beyer or Mundine??

Watch again. Maybe you confused Kessler's boxing style with his haircut (which indeed tends to be the same in every fight)

There opposition Is the same regardless of time.

.... except that Kessler did all this in 5 consecutive fights, while it took Calzaghe 10 years plus to assemble this record.

But all is forgiven id the unifier becomes reality. Calzaghe is making the right noises now, let's see whether he means it.

I fear that noise is all we will get.

The only saving grace, is that this may be the most lucrative fight out there for him, as Winky, Hopkins and Taylor don't appear to be champing at the bit to get in the ring with Calzaghe, and Kessler has found favour with HBO.

Who else is there for him to fight, other than to keep on beating the dregs of the WBO ratings?

Tarver is hardly a hot potato right now, and the Super Middlweight division is pretty farmed out with Kessler or Calzaghe having beaten the best names already.

pundit wrote:

lvlarc wrote: Mitchell had beaten Siaca twice, stopped Green and most think he deserved a win over Ottke,

No. Hardly anyone thinks that.

either way it was close.

Ottke was up 7-2 after 9 rounds -- it was not close.

More like 6-3 but whatever, incase you never realised, title fights are now boxed over 12 rounds. Ottke did hardly anything and lost the last few rounds, making it 7-5 or possibly a draw. Either way the SD verdict by the judges in Germany signify a close fight and Mitchell was far more accomplished than Andrade which was my original point.

Lvlarc....14-2 is a very good amateur record mate

yiddo14 wrote:Lvlarc....14-2 is a very good amateur record mate

Whoops...I meant 2-14!

lvlarc wrote:

pundit wrote:

lvlarc wrote: Mitchell had beaten Siaca twice, stopped Green and most think he deserved a win over Ottke,

No. Hardly anyone thinks that.

either way it was close.

Ottke was up 7-2 after 9 rounds -- it was not close.

More like 6-3 but whatever, incase you never realised, title fights are now boxed over 12 rounds. Ottke did hardly anything and lost the last few rounds, making it 7-5 or possibly a draw. Either way the SD verdict by the judges in Germany signify a close fight and Mitchell was far more accomplished than Andrade which was my original point.

Except that Ottke threw the final rounds away knowking that he had won. He often did so, which is why bouts like this one or those against Starie or Markussen look closer on the scorecards than they really were.

Calzaghe fights like a novice pro at times. Look at the fights with Salem and Bika. He flails and keeps his chin unprotected.

Kessler has been the consummate pro. Mundine has been shit hot since after the Kessler fight...Andrade would give anyone else from 160-168 big problems, Calzaghe included.

Calzaghe's been 'champ' ten years, nine of which it took him to get recognition outside the UK. Kessler unified in 2006 after winning his 1st title in late '04!

Wouldn't really say Kessler fought the same way. Vs Siaca & Lucas he basicaly held ring centre and dominated with jabs and when he felt like it, combos...Against Beyer he placed a fair amount of emphasis on the right hand, which he ended the fight with...Against Mundine he was badly frustrated and had to basically throw in sloppy volume to offset Mundine's clean, fast punches...vs Andrade, Kessler was outreached, and used superlative footwork to get outside the Mexican's punches and jar him from the sides, flustering and stunning him...

It's all very well blasting Andrade now. Andrade is a puncher not a skilled fighter, like Lacy, like a 160-pound Tito, like Miranda...All i can say is enjoy Miranda while you can, because in no time at all you'll all be saying he was "exposed and useless" rather than giving the guy who whips him credit (unless it's the in vogue, overrated Jermain).

For Andrade, we can say he has power (demonstrated in earlier fights), awesome durability, tremendous guts and huge size...is anyone seriously saying that anyone else could put in a punch perfect performance over such a daunting opponent?

Kessler proved his can deal with size and power at a world class level v Andrade. Just like he proved he could deal with top drawer skills vs Beyer and Mundine.

Final Fight wrote:Calzaghe fights like a novice pro at times. Look at the fights with Salem and Bika. He flails and keeps his chin unprotected.

Kessler has been the consummate pro. Mundine has been shit hot since after the Kessler fight...Andrade would give anyone else from 160-168 big problems, Calzaghe included.

Man you make steep claims these days -- to be honest, I don't think so. I would even say that Andrade was the least meaningful of Kessler's last five fights. What makes this bout stand out is exclusively that it was on HBO, and ever since the world seems to have caught fire.

Vicious you are missing the point.

Lacy, Tito and Miranda have all proven themselves world class by beating top contenders or champions. Miranda just outboxed a top 10 SMW in Allan Green, Lacy destroyed Reid. How can you compare him to Trinidad? Tito was a great. My point is all these guys proved themselves by beating good solid opponents, Andrade did no such thing, his title shot came too early.

I really don't understand what you see in Andrade that others do not, except for sheer size and toughness. If he was such a clever fighter that you suggest then he would have tried to establish his reach advantage, but he just kept flailing in with no defence, his only defence was a granite chin. He was tripping over his own feet for god sake!

Vicious would see good things In me If I fought Kessler and lost too.

Pundit returns to the British forum!

Yes Pundit Kessler's style did not look any different Vs Andrade than It did Vs Beyer.

He jab and stance similar to Mario Veit and his stance Is the typical Euro stance too.

Well we don't know what really happened to why It took so long for Joe to get another title but It doesn't seem as bad now. Now I don't like him fighting Manfredo or Bika but they are better than the guys he used to fight like Pudwill or Sobot.

Not at all. If Lacy or, say, Miranda had to go the Kessler route they would've been beaten as badly, even worst than Andrade was.

You see a guy get shut out and assume that anyone can shut him out - ridiculous. Andrade has size, power, durability and stamina on his side. Kessler simply proved he cold deal with rugged qualities in a fighter.

Focus on Andrade's lack of skills (knowing he's a puncher), rather than praise Kessler's skills. Who, pray tell, has shown Kessler's level of long range boxing or lateral movement, to suggest they could dominate Andrade?

Andrade was allowed to sit on his WBC mandatory, and it was GBP's incompetence that they didn't develop him. Kessler beat a good fighter before he could achieve anything.

Lacy? An alphabet title incl 2 good wins, Vanderpool and Reid. Shaw got him the right fights at the right time. Honestly, put Andrade in with Lacy, you'll say Lacy wins because he did more in his career, when in fact he might get broken down by the much bigger man.

Talk about Lacy's accomplishments, he's just got lucky v a guy reported to have got lucky v Brian Magee.

Tito was a great puncher, but at middleweight, nothing else. Easy to hit, one paced, head hunter, predictable...Yes Miranda has beaten some decent people, but there have been few improvements in his style since last year, Green was simply "shit-like", and in all truth he's headed for a similar schooling.

The comparison isn't level of comp - it's that they're going to be unprotected against an elite boxer because they don't bring so much more tha guts, enthusiasm and puching power. That is the point.

Reason I'm a fan of the Kessler/Mundine side of things is because they do things the proper way. Calzaghe is one big con man who's yet again reached OUTSIDE the top 10 for an opponent.

Max, Calzaghe would fight you any day, Enzo would approve (unlike Andrade who was too dangerous), Warren would be glad for a cheap opponent and the WBO would sanction it.

pundit wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:Adapts to styles? The Kessler fights I've seen he's the same.

You think Kessler fougth the same against Andrade as he did against Beyer or Mundine??

Watch again. Maybe you confused Kessler's boxing style with his haircut (which indeed tends to be the same in every fight)

He cant,he are blind,his head is permanently stock in Calzaghe arse

Impossible, no way you could fit two heads up there.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Impossible, no way you could fit two heads up there.

who is the other beside Max Molyneux,pehaps lvlarc

his own I imagine

Well since some cannot be serious then I'll go on about how we Calzaghe fans are much more evolved than Kessler and over sensitive boxing fans.

We don't defend all of Calzaghe's opp, we know guys like Pudwill, Ashira and Manfredo are mismatches and are not happy with these fights unlike Kessler fans with Andrade.

We know It's Impossible to overrate Calzaghe, we more underrate him.

Kessler fans are fooled by undefeated records like Andrade's.

We(Calzaghe fans) are more positive that Calzaghe will fight and easily beat Kessler on points. Points because Joe's hands are breaking too much, he used to hit harder. Still though who can survive his pimp slap of doom?

We can see past a jab, jab, one two, step In and out basic fundamental style and see that It can be outworked and be uncomfortable on the backfoot If quick enough.

We make pictures of evolution In boxing like this for avatars.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/cus ... 0988_7.gif

We are not fooled by punching power like Froch fans and all the people who bought Into the Lacy hype too.

Regardless of the opponents what fighter can dominate like Joe?

Kessler fans get frustrated when debating with Calzaghe fans.

Kessler fans actually think Mundine does things the proper way! Mundine has won the WBA normal belt twice and fights someone decent once In a while, otherwise he fights journymen for a couple of million mostly.

Thats It for now.

Calzaghe fans rarely see fights but like to comment on them anyway...

Kessler fans can backtrack too like Pundit getting exposed when he thought Calzaghe would duck Lacy and that Lacy will win then discredits by saying Lacy was handpicked because Calzaghe and Fw knew he'd lose.

Calzaghe fought Lacy???

If that wasn't a joke then this man would have to repair your brain.

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