BoxRec

lvlarc wrote:

Horse wrote:

lvlarc wrote:If Calzaghe does beat Kessler, that will be two top hungry and undefeated super middleweights (both of which were universally ranked 2nd or 3rd behind Joe) in the cap within 2 years, impressive.

Lacy was not universally ranked 2nd or 3rd, some ranked him 4th. Still good though.

Some prob ranked him lower also, but I meant official boxing site/magaize rankings i.e The Ring, ESPN, etc. I don't think any ranked Lacy lower than 3rd? Here is an old list on how they once stood, posted on here before.

Ring Magazine: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
ESPN: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxingtalk.net: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Fightnews: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
IBO Computerized rankings: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
Boxing Writers' Rankings Poll: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxrec: Lacy #1

Pundit:

#1 Calzaghe (on achievements)
#2 Kesser
#3 Mundine
#4 Beyer
#5 Lacy
#6 Green

History has born out pundit rather than ESPN

Have Calzaghe's hands given out before his talent I always thought Calzaghe would have an extremely long shelf life because he's fought opposition that never really tested him. He's never had to visit the proverbial 'well'. The Lacy fight showed the skills and stamina are undimished. His hands were bad even then though and it seems like they are a serious problem now. Against a big strong champion like Kessler, can he throw the leather to keep Kessler from walking through him? Looks like Calzaghes hands might be the foe that finally defeats him.

And for god sake Joe, dump the WBO If Inkin wants the title let him have it out with Carl Froch over it.

PS, We all owe that doctor who told him to retire a big thankyou if the fight comes off. It might just be his warning that has prompted Warren and Joe into getting serious about getting it done.

Even now, having Mundine ahead of Lacy is debatable. Tony is going down to 160 anyway. Mundine only went up after beating Green and Lacy getting hammered, almost by default. Beyer was a closer match but most had Lacy ahead. Hell, why don't you just go ahead and chuck in Green also.

I'd say history has proven all these rankings to be correct in the case of Calzaghe being top dog and better than Lacy. Except of course for Boxrec rankings

lvlarc wrote:

Horse wrote:

lvlarc wrote:If Calzaghe does beat Kessler, that will be two top hungry and undefeated super middleweights (both of which were universally ranked 2nd or 3rd behind Joe) in the cap within 2 years, impressive.

Lacy was not universally ranked 2nd or 3rd, some ranked him 4th. Still good though.

Some prob ranked him lower also, but I meant official boxing site/magaize rankings i.e The Ring, ESPN, etc. I don't think any ranked Lacy lower than 3rd? Here is an old list on how they once stood, posted on here before.

Ring Magazine: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
ESPN: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxingtalk.net: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Fightnews: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
IBO Computerized rankings: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
Boxing Writers' Rankings Poll: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxrec: Lacy #1

I think you can make a case that Lacy was #2. He was staying busy, knocking ppl out and improving with each fight. Looking back at Joe v Lacy, it wasn't that Lacy was incompetent. He tried to hit the body etc but Joe always got his arms inside Lacy's, made sure to throw straight shots to negate the hooks and was bombarding him with superhuman flurries all night.

Puncher with a reputation often gets a nice ranking. Now that he's been ruined and off the boil everyone suddenly knows better.

Magazines are notoriously slow to rank European fighters. Kessler had beaten Mundine & Lucas. Mundine was always talented but not borderline excellent until late 2006...Given that Kessler was yet to beat Beyer and Andrade, you can make a case that Lacy was #2 and Kessler #3.

IF Joe can beat Kessler and beat him clearly, I think a case could be made for Joe as p4p #1. If you can beat rival well rated champions out of sight, that is exceptional.

Joe will become a god again when he beats the one known as Mikkel.

There's never been a fight I didn't think Calzaghe would win, which says a lot about his opposition no doubt, but also because he's a genuine world class talent and pretty much had it all.

But I'm not so sure about Kessler at this stage - Joe's hands seem to be kaput, and that means Kessler could be a nightmare for him.

Same thing happened to Honeyghan late on, he used to have painkillers injected into his hands before he went on - Joe better do the same for his next one I think.

Joe vs Veit 2 is worth checking out. He did get nailed by a few good jabs and some lovely straight rights - by a tall boxer. His legs gave out a bit at the end of round 1. I can see Kessler troubling him with his perimeter work. Unlike the fragile Veit, Kessler can maintain his class.

But I can also see Kessler struggling with Calzaghe's fluidity & natural speed. When he punches properly, they come in waves. If Joe could sink in a straight left to the body and come up with a right hook to Kessler's stationary head, he can make good things happen.

I can't see it any other way but see-sawing between them both in an intense, fast paced bout.

MightyWarrior wrote:There's never been a fight I didn't think Calzaghe would win, which says a lot about his opposition no doubt, but also because he's a genuine world class talent and pretty much had it all.

But I'm not so sure about Kessler at this stage - Joe's hands seem to be kaput, and that means Kessler could be a nightmare for him.

Same thing happened to Honeyghan late on, he used to have painkillers injected into his hands before he went on - Joe better do the same for his next one I think.

Fenech used to have fucked up hands, but still he could grit his way through it and IMO won at least 8 or 9 rds in that 1st fight with Azumah.

Calzaghe should dump the WBO, all this '20 defences' record etc is a load of crap and means nothing in this day and age. You just can't compare it to records set when there was only one (or even only two) belts, an absolutely meaningless 'record' in my opinion.

You know, I don't believe it, but I'm beginning to think this fight is actually going to happen! Am I dreaming, or am I being ridiculously optimistic?

After the initial sabre rattling, there's been no more discussion on the net between Palle and Warren, and Calzaghe is mentioning Kessler more and more.

It's a bit like the doodlebugs, if you can still hear the promoters talking, then there's no danger of it happening any time soon, if it goes quiet, it means they are actually in the process of negotiating a contract.

I thought the same thing James. A few months ago, I thought there was no chance we'd see Calzaghe-Kessler. Suddenly, it looks very likely.

I still say I'll believe it when I see it. We've been burned many times before lets not forget.

As for Calzaghe v Kessler I think its a toss up. A fully fit Calzaghe with good hands would win a close fight I think, but his hands are a mess and I think that evens things up. If he breaks a hand against Kessler I doubt very much he'll win many rounds one handed. Kessler is better than anyone Calzaghe has faced by some distance.

nickd wrote:I still say I'll believe it when I see it. We've been burned many times before lets not forget.

As for Calzaghe v Kessler I think its a toss up. A fully fit Calzaghe with good hands would win a close fight I think, but his hands are a mess and I think that evens things up. If he breaks a hand against Kessler I doubt very much he'll win many rounds one handed. Kessler is better than anyone Calzaghe has faced by some distance.

Nice analysis.

I think most of us would agree with that assessment, Calzaghe's fragile mitts have to be of major concern, Kessler is strong and determined enough to take the fight to Calzaghe if he's fighting with one hand. I can see Calzaghe starting fast (he always does), winning the early rounds before busting a hand, and then having to deal with Kessler chasing him down for the remainder of the fight.

Please god this fight happens, this could be an absolute corker!

Tremendous fight. If it comes off, we can forgive the promoters' posturing somewhat - because there's a lot at stake for both sides.

If Calzaghe did smash his hand, I think he'd just suck it up, go for broke, and worry about the pain & what's left of his career afterward.

This is one reason to use body punching. Doesn't hurt so much hitting the body. Calzaghe has a nice straight left to the midsection. It sets a lot up - but when he throws the hook instead and lands the inside of his glove he looks amateurish (and can harm his mitts).

A fully focused Calzaghe is a force to be reckoned with. When he has his career lulls I start picking other ppl against him, but when he puts his mind to a serious job it's hard to actually pick against him.

lvlarc wrote:

Horse wrote:

lvlarc wrote:If Calzaghe does beat Kessler, that will be two top hungry and undefeated super middleweights (both of which were universally ranked 2nd or 3rd behind Joe) in the cap within 2 years, impressive.

Lacy was not universally ranked 2nd or 3rd, some ranked him 4th. Still good though.

Some prob ranked him lower also, but I meant official boxing site/magaize rankings i.e The Ring, ESPN, etc. I don't think any ranked Lacy lower than 3rd? Here is an old list on how they once stood, posted on here before.

Ring Magazine: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
ESPN: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxingtalk.net: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Fightnews: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
IBO Computerized rankings: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #3
Boxing Writers' Rankings Poll: Calzaghe #1 Lacy #2
Boxrec: Lacy #1

owned.