BoxRec

STP wrote:

Goz wrote:Really?

Even though Tyson was shot to eff?

Yeah, we know that now. But at the time, I think you'll remember it was pretty damn anticipated (ESP after what Rahman did).

This fight, I don't think there's anything going to suprise me really, Mayweather will win probably 10 or 11 doing his usual stuff and Oscar will try to get in and use compact punches like Mayorga fight. It'll be quite systematic, and abit of a let down. You see.

Nah I'm not sure Lewis-Tyson was ever a superfight to be honest. Had Tyson not lost to Holyfield then it would have been but by the time Lewis had regained his WBC title against Mcall, Tyson has lost the first Holy fight.

It's true Tyson was more shot in 2003 than I thought he was but he felt like damaged goods by that time....

I don't know about 'super-fight', but I have to admit I never looked forward to a fight more.

Then there's the trade superfight, that not many outside of boxing have a clue about: Benn/McClellan for instance, though we were all expecting one or two rounds of mayhem.

Hatton/Tszyu was certainly a superfight on these shores.

Guzman v Katsidis looks a good bet to be fight of the year.

MightyWarrior wrote:Then there's the trade superfight, that not many outside of boxing have a clue about: Benn/McClellan for instance, though we were all expecting one or two rounds of mayhem.

Hatton/Tszyu was certainly a superfight on these shores.

Guzman v Katsidis looks a good bet to be fight of the year.

I would put the likes of Chavez v Taylor and certainly Pryor v Arguello into this category aswell - fights that had fight fans salivating but which lacked penetration to the level of the general sports fan..

And Corrales-Castillo is another like that....

Its a super fight in the Boxing World, and possibly to the USA Public, not to the rest of the outside World.

The average joe does not know this is on and who they are?

You need a house hold name, Ali Vs Forman ect. People know these names, it dosent have to be good on paper, but it becomes massive, because of who they are.

Ali v Frazier 1 was one of the most exciting fights ever, both unbeaten and the name Ali was known worldwide just like Elvis or The Beatles - Unfortunately there hasnt been a name in boxing anywhere near as big since - The only other household name I can think of was Mike Tyson - Ask a lady working in a bread shop in Manchester who Ricky Hatton is or a traffic warden in Cardiff who Joe Calzaghe is and the chances are they will ask "is he a football player" - The chance that they have heard of ODH or Mayweather is considerably slimmer - Is it really one of the top fights ever, I doubt it - Its a big one in the States but Sky dont rate it that high or it would be on PPV - The boxing fans are all very aware of the fight but the average Joe isnt so on that basis its a fight for the fans not so much the public - Pretty sure the situation is very different across the pond where both fighters are very well known - Thats why boxing on national TV here is so important it turns members of the public into boxing fans whereas on Sky with channels dedicated to sport, its usually only boxing fans and lovers of sport who watch the fights - If this fight was on ITV and given the right promotion it would be huge - Ali fights were like the FA cup - Most were shown the evening after and fans and non fans alike all sat to watch them - The man was a star and had one of the most recognizable faces ever - Only ITV or the BBC can make stars out of boxers.

When Ali, Tyson and Eubank fought, it was on occasion.

Hell, Eubank was pulling in viewing figures of 16 million on ITV every time out which beat the Grand National and FA Cup final, and Benn-Eubank II doing 18 million comes close to the episode revealing 'Who Shot Phil (Mitchell)?' :)

Compare that to Calzaghe-Bika having 1.9 million watching..

Goz wrote:And Corrales-Castillo is another like that....

Hmm. I don't know about that.

Of course its a Super Fight. Whether you think DLH is fading or not, I think the size equation makes up for it.

Had Floyd not won titles at 147, then maybe it would be dupped a massacre (as many thought it would be when Floyd called out DLH just after the Corrales fight).

I think the fact that Mayweather hasn't looked as dominating at 147 has added to the appeal. Had he looked like he did at 140 fighting at Welter, then people would think - "well he might not look as good at Light Middle, but still good enough".... Now its "he's not looking as good at 147, he's going to be even worse at 154".

DLH is not faded enough to think he's out of it, its not like its Pernell Whittikar coming back to fight Floyd. DLH put on practically a career best performance last time and despite being in the minority with this view... I have to say that I think his time at 154 has been in his best in terms of performance.

The intrigue factor for this one is we know the saying "a good big one beats a good little un" is usually true - but what about "an exceptional little un vs a very good big un".

DLH has been in many a super fighter - Hopkins, Trinidad, Mosley 1, Chavez, Whittikar, Vargas. I don't think Quartey was quite a big enough name to warrant super fight status - (I think Kessler vs Calzaghe just falls short for the same reason although both certainly a trade super fight)... Mosley II is close, but I think Mosley looked so finished vs Forrest, that he could warrent a Super Fighter. Now, Mosley has gained some momentum a Mosley vs the winner is a super fight.

Boxing Monthly did a good article on what is a Super Fight or not a few years agao (I think it was in conjuction with Hopkins vs DLH or another big big fight).

I guess it's all subjective really dudes.

I suppose playing devils advocate then if this isn't a superfight then on the current scene what fight could be made right now that is without doubt a superfight?

Goz, not sure there is any to be honest.

A combination of Pacquiao/Marquez/Barrera could still be considered a superfight.

Darchinyan vs Mijares - at the lighter weights.

I don't think Hatton/Cotto/Calzaghe/Margarito have been "longstanding" enough to be one superfighter. I know Calzaghe has been a 10 year champion, but with only half a dozen top ten wins at tops. I personally think both fighters need to be a "superfighter" to warrant the "superfight" status. Althoug Calzaghe vs Hopkins would be pretty close.

I suppose rule 1 for a superfight is that both of the fighters should be known to the man on the street - worldwide.

It's a sad fact that not many fighters are these days.

Goz wrote:I suppose rule 1 for a superfight is that both of the fighters should be known to the man on the street - worldwide.

It's a sad fact that not many fighters are these days.

Exactly my point Ali and Tyson were worldwide boxing names so their fights were genuine superfights - Eubank certainly had a good few millions watching but he wasnt known worldwide - Eubank/Benn was a massive domestic fight, one of the best ever but you couldnt have put it on at The Maddison Square Garden as a top of the bill - A superfight here but worldwide no - The DLH v Mayweather fight is hidden away on Sky and the average Joe knows nothing about it and most people have never even heard of them anyway - The clue to whether its a superfight or not lies in the fact thats its on SS1 and NOT PPV - Its a very big fight for us as boxing fans but nothing more this side of the pond.

Eubank was completely unknown in America (he couldn't afford to fight the top Americans because he'd have probably lost), but he did have the highest global viewing figures in boxing during Tyson's prison stay.

Wildwayon,

Disagree with you a tad there - not sure what its TV status has got to do with it over here. Sky in the past have shown us some cracking cards for "free" in the past and them some dodgier ones on PPV.

I think Mayweather is as big a name in the UK as Hopkins in the UK but Hopkins vs Daniels/DLH vs Sturm and also Hopkins vs DLH were all PPV's by Sky.... Sanders vs Vitali Klitchsko was also a PPV event - now the average punter in the UK has heard off and (probably respects more) the two fighters fighting on Saturday than those two.

Its quite possible that PPV's of DLH and Hopkins bills haven't done great and thats why the fight isn't featured - but perhaps Mr Hopkins has something to do with the poor sales (note Hopkins vs Taylor was on "free" TV).

The fact is that Sky are still "unsure" about having big US fights/Bills on PPV without a UK backup. Infact the three mentioned are the only three I can think off outside of some Tyson fights (which nearly always had a big bill this side for free). Even Lewis and/or Hamed US bills usually had a UK backup.... Their are even unsure of Hatton's saleability without the UK backup.

Most guys (non major boxing fans but like the odd fight) I speak too do know of both boxers. Mayweather might simply be called "the black dude whose going to anhilate Hatton" but De La Hoya is known.

I agree that you cannot call Benn vs Eubank a super fight, cause neither we at all known in the states - but I think both Floyd and Oscar are pretty well heard off in the states and heard off a little here.

If this isn't a super fight, then we will never have a super fight again.

Benn was well-known in the States - the Watson fight was on NBC, DeWitt and Barkley fights on ABC, he started the ring entrances and all the glitter in boxing over there, did Nige. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered $25m for the Jones Jr fight.

STP wrote:Benn was well-known in the States - the Watson fight was on NBC, DeWitt and Barkley fights on ABC, he started the ring entrances and all the glitter in boxing over there, did Nige. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered $25m for the Jones Jr fight.

That's absolutely no way he was offered that much to fight Jones. That's the type of money Oscar is making this weekend and fighters today get paid a lot more than 10/15 years ago. Put a dot in between the two and the five and it's becomes believable.

ArtOfWar wrote:

STP wrote:Benn was well-known in the States - the Watson fight was on NBC, DeWitt and Barkley fights on ABC, he started the ring entrances and all the glitter in boxing over there, did Nige. Otherwise he wouldn't have been offered $25m for the Jones Jr fight.

That's absolutely no way he was offered that much to fight Jones. That's the type of money Oscar is making this weekend and fighters today get paid a lot more than 10/15 years ago. Put a dot in between the two and the five and it's becomes believable.

King was putting up $50mill for Benn-Jones, there was a picture of Nige holding and looking at a £16.5mill cheque on the back page of The Sun with a facial expression as if it's a huge lump of juicy steak he's about to get tucked into.

But King wanted options on Jones.

Here you go: http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.sp ... 1fb?lnk=st

A simple search.

I'm suprised you don't remember.

It's Floyd's ego and skill against Oscar's pride and strength. That makes it a massive psychological draw. But my anticipation for the boxing itself isn't high enough to personally declare it a superfight.
Oscar clips PBF, or Mayweather dances and swivels to victory. There isn't a second layer anywhere.

Out of interest: what would be a modern superfight? Depressingly, I can't think of any. There are a few great domestic matches though. Plus, a good number of 'superfights' aren't billed as such.

I think Tszyu-De La Hoya in '05 instead of Tszyu-Hatton would have been a super-fight.

Hatton-Mayweather after Hatton-Tszyu and Mayweather-Gatti may well have been.

Today, I suppose maybe the closest might be Calzaghe-Hopkins? After Calzaghe-Lacy and Hopkins-Tarver it would have been, anyway.

By after I mean as in next fight after.

Calzaghe vs. Hopkins probably is the next biggest. Can't say it's very exciting on paper though. David Haye looks on course for a superfight in the near future, but against whom?

(Being a bit cruel, Amir Khan versus someone who can punch would feel like quite the occasion.)

I don't know why ppl hold the Phillips loss against Tszyu so badly.

Barrera lost TWICE to talented by brittle Junior Jones, but now many are saying he might be the best ever Mexican// Lewis suffered 2x KO defeats yet was THE dominant heavy of a time that also included Holy, Bowe, Tyson all who avoided him// Oscar was outclassed by Felix Sturm of all ppl...