BoxRec

Posted: **09 May 2007, 05:26**

boxingchat wrote:Carl was offered the fight £250k with no options and he said no - Enough said.

I find it hard to believe that allegedly wouldn't shit himself and insist on options, in the same way that he did when Haye and Enzo nearly got it on.

Mick Hennessey offered JC the fight and they evaluated the fight alot higher than SN - Enough said.

Carl Smokes his Boots

Posted: **09 May 2007, 05:33**

Well said Chambers....

Getting a bit fed up of "Reportedly" - or "Allegedly" as we'll call him here, he's almost protected as his fighters....

After 20 years or so in the game you'd think he'd be man enough to take it on the chin.....

F****** Herbie Hide's got better resistance than this guy.....

Posted: **09 May 2007, 05:59**

Chambers2 wrote:
boxingchat wrote:Carl was offered the fight £250k with no options and he said no - Enough said.
I find it hard to believe that allegedly wouldn't shit himself and insist on options, in the same way that he did when Haye and Enzo nearly got it on.

Mick Hennessey offered JC the fight and they evaluated the fight alot higher than SN - Enough said.

Carl Smokes his Boots

I wonder If the options thing Is just an excuse to use when the other guys say no though or want to back sometimes.

How can this option excuse be used so much and why Is It only used when a fights trying to be made with Calzaghe?

Sometimes It's like some posters views of Warren makes the options excuse believable to themselves.

Posted: **09 May 2007, 06:44**

Tsukiyomi wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:
boxingchat wrote:Carl was offered the fight £250k with no options and he said no - Enough said.
I find it hard to believe that allegedly wouldn't shit himself and insist on options, in the same way that he did when Haye and Enzo nearly got it on.

Mick Hennessey offered JC the fight and they evaluated the fight alot higher than SN - Enough said.

Carl Smokes his Boots
I wonder If the options thing Is just an excuse to use when the other guys say no though or want to back sometimes.

How can this option excuse be used so much and why Is It only used when a fights trying to be made with Calzaghe?

Sometimes It's like some posters views of Warren makes the options excuse believable to themselves.

Well, Mick Hennessy tried to get a definitive answer regards options on Froch when Warren made the offer and, last time I saw him comment on it, he hadn't had a reply, so I think the query about options is a valid one.

Posted: **09 May 2007, 07:15**

I got it from the horses mouth (CF) but, of course, I don't know all the angles.

However, it's common knowledge - and how many times have we seen it - when he promotes a fight, his guy loses and the next thing you know he's promoting the guy who beat his guy in the first place.....

:)

Not saying it;'s a bad thing, he's a businessman first and foremost and wants to make money...

But it doesn't always give us the fights we want to see....

Posted: **09 May 2007, 07:20**

PompeyScot wrote:
Tsukiyomi wrote:
Chambers2 wrote: I find it hard to believe that allegedly wouldn't shit himself and insist on options, in the same way that he did when Haye and Enzo nearly got it on.

Mick Hennessey offered JC the fight and they evaluated the fight alot higher than SN - Enough said.

Carl Smokes his Boots
I wonder If the options thing Is just an excuse to use when the other guys say no though or want to back sometimes.

How can this option excuse be used so much and why Is It only used when a fights trying to be made with Calzaghe?

Sometimes It's like some posters views of Warren makes the options excuse believable to themselves.
Well, Mick Hennessy tried to get a definitive answer regards options on Froch when Warren made the offer and, last time I saw him comment on it, he hadn't had a reply, so I think the query about options is a valid one.

Warren insisted on options on Haye if he beat Enzo, which scuppered the fight. Its FW's way of getting out of a fight that he thinks his fighter may well lose and it puts himself in a no lose situation, if Enzo wins all is good for FW, if Haye wins FW gets an excellent new fighter and all is good.

Warrens a great business man

Posted: **09 May 2007, 07:37**

And do you have any proof for your FW claims?

So If he allegedly asks for options Incase his own lose then why want options on guys on Froch?

I coud see Haye beating Enzo so I could understand that but Froch wouldn't stand a chance.

Posted: **09 May 2007, 07:53**

you're among the minority there, most people would give Froch a good chance against Joe...

Unlike Manfredo he'll punch back, unlike Lacy he can move and has a brain....he has a great chance.

..and I just said, I don't know all the angles....

Posted: **09 May 2007, 08:03**

If Froch turned down 250k to fight Joe Calzaghe for the world title, with Warren having no options on him, then I've lost all respect for him.

What the hell is he talking about Calzaghe ducking him for when he's been offered the fight on a plate for tonnes of money? That is just a joke.

He's British champion, 250k is like winning the lottery for a British champion.

Chris Eubank took home £90,000 from the first Nigel Benn fight (Benn's purse was £1million) and almost died in the process, over the next five years he made £15million.

You have to pay your dues Carl, win the title first and do it the hard way. Then you make your money mate ;)

Unless, ofcourse, you've been lying all along about being so confident of winning..

Posted: **09 May 2007, 08:27**

£90,000 then was a lot more money than £90,000 now....

Could have bought a couple of wheels for his truck :)

Posted: **09 May 2007, 10:41**

Tsukiyomi wrote:And do you have any proof for your FW claims?

Yes, history.

Do you have any proof that Warren didn't want options on Carl, because last I heard Mick Hennessey was looking for clarification of the offer from Frank, which wasn't forthcoming

Posted: **09 May 2007, 11:57**

Tsukiyomi wrote: I coud see Haye beating Enzo so I could understand that but Froch wouldn't stand a chance.

Froch is very much a threat. Alot more of a threat than Manfredo, Bika an Ashira. If it's true SN wanting options I can see why, Froch could prove very dangerous for Calzaghe. I myself would pick Calzaghe if it came down to it but it certainly would not be a formality.

Posted: **09 May 2007, 18:58**

Chambers2 wrote:
Tsukiyomi wrote:And do you have any proof for your FW claims?
Yes, history.

Do you have any proof that Warren didn't want options on Carl, because last I heard Mick Hennessey was looking for clarification of the offer from Frank, which wasn't forthcoming

And this history Is where?

No I don't have proof but I'm not the one making claims.

Posted: **09 May 2007, 19:07**

Froch would no threat at all.

He goes on about his right uppercut catching Joe. While Joe Is open to the occasional right handers, It's straight rights that mostly land. A full forced right uppercut would be too slow and Joe would see It coming. You need to be quick enough with the rights to hit Joe with too, Froch's punches are too mechanical.

While Dodson was KO'ed to the body he showed Froch can be troubled by workrate and thats one of Joe's quality's he has no problem setting a high workrate when needed. Froch has a pretty slow pace which would work In Joe's favour.

Carl's too power reliant too and keeps his left hand low purposely so he can put more power Into his shots as he plants his feet down. Problem Is he takes shots to give this heavy shots.

Sorry but Carl Is made for Calzaghe just like Lacy was, It would be a one sided win for Joe.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 04:48**

Does this guy work for SN? Do you work for SN?

you must...

Posted: **11 May 2007, 05:46**

Captain Hook wrote:Does this guy work for SN? Do you work for SN?

you must...

What a weak excuse when I defend a few points that SN do that I agree with.

I may agree with some of SN ways or defend certain but I'm not boxing chat or Ant Evans who can tell you the latest claims.

Some of you fans are too sensitive and need to have respect for peoples opinions.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:08**

sensitive?

I just asked if you worked for SN because you're so pro Calzaghe and pro FW..

and anti Froch. He'd give JC a fight, more so than Lacey and Manfredo. That's all we're saying.

It doesn't bother me mate your opinion is your opinion.

PS "Sensitive" is writing little sad and smiley faces next to your posts :( :)

:x

:( :)

:P

Don't worry about it....

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:28**

Captain Hook wrote:sensitive?

I just asked if you worked for SN because you're so pro Calzaghe and pro FW..

and anti Froch. He'd give JC a fight, more so than Lacey and Manfredo. That's all we're saying.

It doesn't bother me mate your opinion is your opinion.

PS "Sensitive" is writing little sad and smiley faces next to your posts :( :) :x :( :) :P

Don't worry about it....

You sounded like It when you overreacted about my opinion. Disagreeing Is one thing but members like Ben K just resort to saying things like does this guy work for FW.

It justs sounds like overreacting to me and that what I say bothers some posters that much.

Why do people just resort to saying he works for SN because he defends few things? I'm 21 with minor asperger's , what would I do for SN?

I am a big Joe fan, he's my favourite fighter and I've not seen a boxer that talented, Mayweather's very talented too but he boxes more than fights, Joe can fight and box.

I was unhappy with him fighting Manfredo though and agree with you all when you say he should fight Kessler and I did say how much of a cruel joke It was to but Gunn In with Macca.

I mostly only agree with the way SN builds up It's prospects and agree that their not always totally to blame like some make out.

As for Froch If he fights any other Super middleweight than Joe and it's for a world title, I'd get behind him like I do with all Brit fighters, It's just that he seems mostly to be mouth.

He backs It up on the domestic and Euro level no doubt but he Is yet to fight a world class fighter. I like winning attitudes but when he gets offered a fight with Calzaghe he pulls out. I understand that he might get options put on him but theres no proof exactly of that.

He just comes out with crap like It was derisory and that Mick offered him 1.6 mill but didn't say why the offer was derisory.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:38**

Terry D wrote:Dodson did not trouble Froch Max. Carl tucked-up then tucked him away.

I don't think Magee troubled Froch massively. Froch loses rounds yet mostly looks in control of how, when and why he will lose a round.

Froch's biggest problem is that he is susceptible to getting hit and when he does get hit it is often straight down the middle and right on the kisser. There have been a few fights where his head has been bounced back.

Will Calzaghe beat him? Yes. Will Calzaghe KO him? Calzaghe has not properly KO'd anyone for years, they've brought over middleweights for him to knock over and he has not done it so they finally got him a light-middle (a fairly shit one at that despite, or evidenced by, his reality TV loss) to knock over and he finished the fight trying to karate chop him on the back of the head until the ref prematurely stopped in. Plus he broke his hand doing that and was advised to retire.

Joe throws a lot of shots, he has speedy hands and good movement but how often does he catch a guy right on the chin? He is not very accurate.

Joe can tell the TV crew "He won't be able to take the power!" but all it does is place unrealistic expectations on him. ITV, and Joe, built him up as a puncher and when he fails to show this it makes him look bad.

If, at this point we should say 'when they don't fight...', they fought Joe could probably win big by putting his shots right through the centre, unlike the Manfredo fight when his last few shots looked like he was trying to hit someone over the head with an invisible bottle.

His workrate showed Froch can be uncomfortable when the aggressor can put on a high workrate.

I didn't say Joe would KO Carl, I mostly say It will be on points. It's possible he could get a stoppage overwhelming Carl though since his one pace and low guard would make It easy for Joe to back Carl to the ropes like Joe does with a lot of fighters.

Carl's last opponent used to be a Middleweight and Taylor's fighting two In a row when he fights Spink's so Joe's not the only one who does the fighting the smaller man thing.

Tatevosyan could of came In unprepared too as he was only coming off a beating from Bute too In less than two months after he fought Froch.

Manfredo's leagues below Joe but In my opinion he did show top 10 potential at Super Middleweight though. Joe still shouldn't of fought him though but theres not many to choose for him when Kessler had to fight Andrade and Taylor choosing Spinks.

He'd be accruate enough to hit Froch on the chin the way Carl's defence Is but Joe fights alot of guys shorter than him so no wonder he mostly hits them on the top of the head more than the chin.

Joe didn't break his hand either according to his site.

http://joecalzaghe.com/newsStory.asp?id=20

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:52**

calzaghe on pts.

froch is too disjointed styles wise.

in other words too open.

calzaghe's pace and aggression would be a real headache for froch.

i don't think froch's own power is anything special. he can bang a bit, but the better fighters have generally gone the longer distances with him.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:53**

Chambers2 wrote:Froch Smokes Joes boots

Frock KO10

it took him 11 rds to get to magee ffs.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 06:56**

Froch's power mostly comes from his technique.

Funny when people say Power Is god given or natural and can't be changed.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 09:22**

Good points mate, and you're entitled to them....

I'm Welsh, seen Calzaghe fight two or three times and am a fan, don't get me wrong.

I just think Carl would give him all he could handle, it wouldn't be as cut and dry as people are suggesting..

Froch has good mobility, he's not a come forward. straight line fighter like Lacy who relied on power and couldn't get near JC..

Will we ever see it? Probably not, Joe should fight Taylor IMO.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 09:36**

Terry D wrote:
Tsukiyomi wrote:
Terry D wrote:Dodson did not trouble Froch Max. Carl tucked-up then tucked him away.

I don't think Magee troubled Froch massively. Froch loses rounds yet mostly looks in control of how, when and why he will lose a round.

Froch's biggest problem is that he is susceptible to getting hit and when he does get hit it is often straight down the middle and right on the kisser. There have been a few fights where his head has been bounced back.

Will Calzaghe beat him? Yes. Will Calzaghe KO him? Calzaghe has not properly KO'd anyone for years, they've brought over middleweights for him to knock over and he has not done it so they finally got him a light-middle (a fairly shit one at that despite, or evidenced by, his reality TV loss) to knock over and he finished the fight trying to karate chop him on the back of the head until the ref prematurely stopped in. Plus he broke his hand doing that and was advised to retire.

Joe throws a lot of shots, he has speedy hands and good movement but how often does he catch a guy right on the chin? He is not very accurate.

Joe can tell the TV crew "He won't be able to take the power!" but all it does is place unrealistic expectations on him. ITV, and Joe, built him up as a puncher and when he fails to show this it makes him look bad.

If, at this point we should say 'when they don't fight...', they fought Joe could probably win big by putting his shots right through the centre, unlike the Manfredo fight when his last few shots looked like he was trying to hit someone over the head with an invisible bottle.
His workrate showed Froch can be uncomfortable when the aggressor can put on a high workrate.

I didn't say Joe would KO Carl, I mostly say It will be on points. It's possible he could get a stoppage overwhelming Carl though since his one pace and low guard would make It easy for Joe to back Carl to the ropes like Joe does with a lot of fighters.

Carl's last opponent used to be a Middleweight and Taylor's fighting two In a row when he fights Spink's so Joe's not the only one who does the fighting the smaller man thing.

Tatevosyan could of came In unprepared too as he was only coming off a beating from Bute too In less than two months after he fought Froch.

Manfredo's leagues below Joe but In my opinion he did show top 10 potential at Super Middleweight though. Joe still shouldn't of fought him though but theres not many to choose for him when Kessler had to fight Andrade and Taylor choosing Spinks.

He'd be accruate enough to hit Froch on the chin the way Carl's defence Is but Joe fights alot of guys shorter than him so no wonder he mostly hits them on the top of the head more than the chin.

Joe didn't break his hand either according to his site.

http://joecalzaghe.com/newsStory.asp?id=20
It did no such thing. Froch covered then KO'd him. If flattening a guy in three is a sign of discomfort then fair play.

Taylor is fighting a smaller man. That cannot be denied. Taylro also took on the #1 fighter in his division as a green pro and then took on the man who supplanted the #1 in his very next fight. Taylor is the #1 in his division in only a few years.

Calzaghe is yet to reach undisputed #1 in his division despite a decade long title-reign.

The guy Froch KO'd was coming off a loss but was better than Manfredo. Manfredo is not very good. People tried to pretend he was but he was not.

Reports came out after the fight that he injured his hand hitting Manfredo. If it is not we are owed a Super fight the month after next according to SN. June or July. Who have they got? Or is the hand going to go leaving a gap until a fight in September?

Winning doesn't mean you didn't have any discomfort, a workrate can trouble Carl.

It can be argued that Taylor lost 2 of his 3 big fights with Hop and Winky too.

The other title holders after Ottke retired became champs when he retired and vacated, Calzaghe was No 1 and still Is no 1, he only had Ottke to get undisputed status but he retired.

How Is Tatesvosyan better than Manfredo? Explain. Both Manfredo and Tatesvosyan have beaten continental fighters at best like Pemberton and The current EBU champ.

Well Frank Is talking with Palle and Taylor's promotor and the hand Is leaving a gap for September.

Posted: **11 May 2007, 09:46**

hitman_hatton1 wrote:
Chambers2 wrote:Froch Smokes Joes boots

Froch KO10
it took him 11 rds to get to magee ffs.

Let me have a rethink, I might have predicted this one wrong hmmmm........ Yes I have FROCH KO9

Froch is the only person to stop Magee and what a KO it was..BOOM, if the same punch catches Joe its gameover IMO

I'm not going to spend anymore of my time debating this fight, because it ain't happening. Joe will either get in with the very BIG named fighters (Wright, Taylor, Hopkins, Kessler???) for BIG bucks, where if he loses he'll be saying I lost to the very best the World has to offer or he'll continue fighting muppets who pose no risk whatsoever. Carl is inbetween, he poses a massive risk (rethink - Froch KO8

), but when JC loses it will tarnish his record.

Calzaghe has no balls!! else he would have already fought Carl instead of Bika, Manfredo or Ashira. I've never come close to supporting a foreigner over a Brit, but Joe is seriously starting to push it - he's what is officially known as a KANT

Eubank gave JC the young pretender at the time a shot at his title, its a pity he won't do Carl the same favour.

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Froch would take Calzaghe?......Discuss