BoxRec

Eubank was nowhere near over the hill when he fought Collins..he had been getting joke decisions for a while..considering that in a previous thread people were going on about how great JC was against Eubank and how JC was lauding how good Eubank was I think we should come to the conclusion that there was no depreciation in Eubanks talent pre Collins...

I will give you Benn, Benn wasnt the same once he for McClellan..thats not revisionism, we knew that at the time...

thepocketrocket wrote:Eubank was nowhere near over the hill when he fought Collins..he had been getting joke decisions for a while..considering that in a previous thread people were going on about how great JC was against Eubank and how JC was lauding how good Eubank was I think we should come to the conclusion that there was no depreciation in Eubanks talent pre Collins...

I will give you Benn, Benn wasnt the same once he for McClellan..thats not revisionism, we knew that at the time...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!... good job you're not biased!...
and yes Graham did lose to Kalambay as well (as did Mccallum) but Kalambay didnt make Graham look silly like he did Collins... and he was much older when he fought Collins!!... 8)

When Kalambay Beat Graham THE SECOND TIME it was Seven months BEFORE he fought Collins..and Collins wasnt made to look silly, it was close...

The agressive version of Collins would have beaten Graham, no trouble, his punch output would have made sure enough got through..

thepocketrocket wrote:to denigrate Collins' claims that he beat him up in sparring is ignorant.

I think it's a load of absolute shite. And ignorant I ain't.

Kalambay and Graham were BOTH past it in their second fight.

It was a helluva fight largely because they had both lost their reflexes.

Graham would go on to lose to Frank Grant in his very next fight.

Kalambay managed to pull out a good performance against Collins from nowhere, but in his next meaningful fight his age caught up with him and he lost a close decision to ordinary Pyatt and looked just as washed up as he had in the fights previous to Collins.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:to denigrate Collins' claims that he beat him up in sparring is ignorant.

I think it's a load of absolute shite. And ignorant I ain't.

Just see the backlash this thread caused..it did seem a case of 'how dare that punk Collins talk shit about Graham'

Collins is a great little fighter who the British Public just cant accept and love to run him down

thepocketrocket wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:to denigrate Collins' claims that he beat him up in sparring is ignorant.

I think it's a load of absolute shite. And ignorant I ain't.

Just see the backlash this thread caused..it did seem a case of 'how dare that punk Collins talk shit about Graham'

Collins is a great little fighter who the British Public just cant accept and love to run him down

I have huge respect for Collins. Huge. But to say he beat Graham up in sparring goes contrary to everything I've ever heard about either of them in the gym. And I've heard plenty - about Bomber at least.

Ergo...I believe it's a crock of shit. Nothing to do with my lack of respect for Collins at all.

agreed. herol was too quick for collins who, in my opinion, everyone on this thread rates too highly.

thepocketrocket wrote: Collins performances against Johnson and Mccallum are far better than anything that Watson did!

The Benn and Eubank II performances of Watson's were absolutely top drawer, leagues above anything I've seen from Collins - leages and leagues!

thepocketrocket wrote:
What do you all think Collins would have done to Doug De Witt? Dont answer in fact, its too obvious...

DeWitt would have beat the living shit out of Collins.

Watch the Thornton fights, Thornton is robbed blind against Collins, has him running for his life and cut to bits (his ear was hanging off!), while DeWitt is commanding the centre of the ring, breaking Tony's hand with his face and outworking him with left hand work (doubling and tripling his jabs and hooks). DeWitt looks superior, he made a peak Tommy Hearns work and none of the rounds were blow-outs - what do you think Tommy would have done to Collins?

thepocketrocket wrote: For those who said Kalambay was shot before he beat Collins..just remember that there was only 7 months between Kalambay beating Collins and wait for it.....Kalambay beating Bomber Graham...

If you scored that fight for Kalambay I fear for your mental health!!

Collins was never a gym fighter but i wouldnt discount it, one of my boys stopped him in the gym but when it mattered for the title a different Collins turned up.

thepocketrocket wrote:Eubank was nowhere near over the hill when he fought Collins..he had been getting joke decisions for a while..considering that in a previous thread people were going on about how great JC was against Eubank and how JC was lauding how good Eubank was I think we should come to the conclusion that there was no depreciation in Eubanks talent pre Collins...

I will give you Benn, Benn wasnt the same once he for McClellan..thats not revisionism, we knew that at the time...

Eubank was never the same after Watson, in fact after the WARS he had with Benn and Watson, he was much less effective, a battle scarred, more hesitant fighter, who of course was still a very tough boxer, with a lot of heart. But a prime Eubank destroys Collins. And of course, same goes for Benn!

STP wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote: Collins performances against Johnson and Mccallum are far better than anything that Watson did!

The Benn and Eubank II performances of Watson's were absolutely top drawer, leagues above anything I've seen from Collins - leages and leagues!

too right! those were the days. warriors.

fist wrote:

STP wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote: Collins performances against Johnson and Mccallum are far better than anything that Watson did!

The Benn and Eubank II performances of Watson's were absolutely top drawer, leagues above anything I've seen from Collins - leages and leagues!

too right! those were the days. warriors.

Its such a cliche...

Eubank 'wasnt the same after Watson'...Eubank looked poor beforhand, nothing changed..Chris had one problem...HE COULDNT SUSTAIN A WORKRATE!

Watson did well against Benn, but it was a novicey Benn who hadnt even gone to America to really learn his trade, lets not pretend this was the same animal who beat McClellan or even (to Chris' credit) got beaten by Eubank..

Collins UD12 against all, maybe knocking Nigel out around the 11th in a thriller

STP wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:
What do you all think Collins would have done to Doug De Witt? Dont answer in fact, its too obvious...

DeWitt would have beat the living shit out of Collins.

Watch the Thornton fights, Thornton is robbed blind against Collins, has him running for his life and cut to bits (his ear was hanging off!), while DeWitt is commanding the centre of the ring, breaking Tony's hand with his face and outworking him with left hand work (doubling and tripling his jabs and hooks). DeWitt looks superior, he made a peak Tommy Hearns work and none of the rounds were blow-outs - what do you think Tommy would have done to Collins?

OK, I have seen neither fight so wont argue too much but both fights were apparently majority decisions, apparently De witt didnt dominate Thornton..

Saying that, what does it matter? De will fought Benn Three years after he fought Thornton and even reports at the time implied De Witt was coming to the end of a hard career...

The De Witt of 1990 would have been outboxed easily by Collins..would he have outboxed a peak Dewitt?? No idea, but hey, that wasnt the question

Terry D wrote:McCallum played with Collins and got tired, due to his excellent early work, then seemed to say: 'Here you go, have a round or two on me.'

Eubank hurt Collins really badly and perhaps with a little more devil or polish would have taken him out or put him over again.

Collins seems a good guy at functions but he was merely a decent fighter who timed his opportunities well against a deeply-flawed Eubank (it was still close) and an aged Benn. I actually thought his best wins came over Neville Brown and Chris Pyatt, I enjoyed those fights. Then he spent the rest of his reign calling out Leonard and a few retired fighters.

As for sparring stories, of course he tells fibs, he is Irish, they don't go out drinking, they go out embellishing with the odd (as in number 47) pint thrown in.

I felt there would have been no Collins legend had Eubank not simply finished him. Which he should have easily were it not for his demons.

Pyatt may have been the best win and yet that was a close fight that was prematurely stopped. Pyatt was defending himself well on the ropes, with head movement after being hurt before the ref jumped in.

thepocketrocket wrote:

fist wrote:

STP wrote: The Benn and Eubank II performances of Watson's were absolutely top drawer, leagues above anything I've seen from Collins - leages and leagues!

too right! those were the days. warriors.

Its such a cliche...

Eubank 'wasnt the same after Watson'...Eubank looked poor beforhand, nothing changed..Chris had one problem...HE COULDNT SUSTAIN A WORKRATE!

Watson did well against Benn, but it was a novicey Benn who hadnt even gone to America to really learn his trade, lets not pretend this was the same animal who beat McClellan or even (to Chris' credit) got beaten by Eubank..

Collins UD12 against all, maybe knocking Nigel out around the 11th in a thriller

I disagree, Eubank had lost his killer instinct. I remember him standing of Thompson after giving him a pounding on the ropes. Eubank was always a monster when he had opponents hurt before Watson.

I think Watson would have beaten the Benn who beat McClellan, Benn may have learned a few tricks, but he was still absolutely wide open and eat a tonne of shots off of McClellan, who defensively was very poor. Watson had a much better defence and boxing ability, or at least used it better than McClellan. Watson was also a bigger man than Gerald, who didn't look suited to 168.

Eubank and Benn were both near the end when they fought Collins, Benn's balance was clearly gone in both fights, and Eubank was struggling with making weight and I think also mentally weakened by the Watson fight.

. I actually thought his best wins came over Neville Brown and Chris Pyatt, I enjoyed those fights. Then he spent the rest of his reign calling out Leonard and a few retired fighters.

As for sparring stories, of course he tells fibs, he is Irish, they don't go out drinking, they go out embellishing with the odd (as in number 47) pint thrown in.[/quote]

There you have it with Collins. He beat a shot Benn. Beat Brown who was a Middle moving up. Collins dwarfed him in that fight. Pyatt started at light middle if I'm correct.

Yeah, Benn looked really terrible in both those fights, thank christ he was pulled out of the second one pretty early on. He was pretty marmalised after that McClellan fight, he took a real pasting even though he won that one.

Collins would get widely outpointed by the peak Benn and Eubank, and wouldnt even land a punch on the peak Herol Graham.
Collins fought Eubank when he was way over the hill, and the ghost of Nigel Benn. In terms of historical significance, the wins mean nothing.

thepocketrocket wrote:

STP wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:
What do you all think Collins would have done to Doug De Witt? Dont answer in fact, its too obvious...

DeWitt would have beat the living shit out of Collins.

Watch the Thornton fights, Thornton is robbed blind against Collins, has him running for his life and cut to bits (his ear was hanging off!), while DeWitt is commanding the centre of the ring, breaking Tony's hand with his face and outworking him with left hand work (doubling and tripling his jabs and hooks). DeWitt looks superior, he made a peak Tommy Hearns work and none of the rounds were blow-outs - what do you think Tommy would have done to Collins?

OK, I have seen neither fight so wont argue too much but both fights were apparently majority decisions, apparently De witt didnt dominate Thornton..

Saying that, what does it matter? De will fought Benn Three years after he fought Thornton and even reports at the time implied De Witt was coming to the end of a hard career...

The De Witt of 1990 would have been outboxed easily by Collins..would he have outboxed a peak Dewitt?? No idea, but hey, that wasnt the question

DeWitt was in the best form of his career against Robbie Sims and Matthew Hilton. He'd have been a big favourite to beat Collins, ofcourse.

thepocketrocket wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:to denigrate Collins' claims that he beat him up in sparring is ignorant.

I think it's a load of absolute shite. And ignorant I ain't.

Just see the backlash this thread caused..it did seem a case of 'how dare that punk Collins talk shit about Graham'

Collins is a great little fighter who the British Public just cant accept and love to run him down

Youre an idiot if you think that Graham was anywhere close to his peak when he fought Kalambay the second time... you obviously havent got a clue and as for Collins I actually liked him a lot when he was fighting but since retiring (rather than fight Joe Calzaghe!!) he's become a bit of a joke with his boasting, boozing and wife beating!... but if you still love the man good on you!, ....birds of a feather I guess eh!!

Dont think Collins would lie about it, Thats not his nature, and I do think he would of walked threw Graham

all 3 statements above are total sh..