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Yes, of course, the OT, which is basically (sort of) Jewish history, but mythologised and turned to

Remarkably, this stupid cow at my last place of work, who was some sort of born against Christian (they always seem to be the most radical), said that muslims were evil, and that the Jews were entitled to the lands of Israel 'because it was in the bible.' She also said that it was shameful that the local mayor had come out as gay, because it was 'wickedness' and that she didn't want 'that sort of person' representing her.

When I asked her 'are you a Jew or a christian then' she said she sided with the Jews. Convenient that.

I mean, how on earth do you even begin to counter that level of blind ignorance?

I tried to point out that during the crusades that christians soliders went thundering into the holy land on the pretext of 'rescuing' it from the Muslims. Of course, the fact that everyone in Jerusalem was getting on just fine, was irrelevant, and they embarked on an orgy of violence and looting, before getting their pious arses kicked and sent packing.

Of course she'd 'never heard about that' conveniently.

When she started going on about Muslim terrorism, I pointed out the ironically named 'pro-life' nutters in America, who went round blowing up abortion clinics, or assassinating doctors who performed abortions, but of course, her answer was that 'they aren't proper christians.'

When I pointed out that the same could be said of Muslims who go round blowing up innocent civilians in the name of Islam, of course, 'that was different.'

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I mean, how on earth do you even begin to counter that level of blind ignorance?

Because they have blind faith, its their way or the wrong way. Both the radical Muslim or Islam, and the Ultra Christian have this.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the old testament would definitely be an 18 film, if they made a realistic version of it. Hell, I doubt it would even be shown in the cinema, you'd have to download it from some sort of sicko website.

That's what makes me crack up when Christian's talk about how Islam is a religion of violence, do they not read the bible? God was forever telling people to go and slay everyone in the village. What about God sencind the angel of detah to kill the first born of everyone in Egypt?

However, as a christian, you are meant to turn the other cheek, however, I don't think God sees it that way, judging by what an angry bastard he is in the old testament.

Jesus is sort of like the cuddly-wuddly version of god. A bit like David Cameron to Margaret Thatcher.

And also to your other coments, for someone who dislikes bible bashers you seem to know a whole lot about the bible yourself. Infact you seem like a disrespectful & ignorant person

Des1 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the old testament would definitely be an 18 film, if they made a realistic version of it. Hell, I doubt it would even be shown in the cinema, you'd have to download it from some sort of sicko website.

That's what makes me crack up when Christian's talk about how Islam is a religion of violence, do they not read the bible? God was forever telling people to go and slay everyone in the village. What about God sencind the angel of detah to kill the first born of everyone in Egypt?

However, as a christian, you are meant to turn the other cheek, however, I don't think God sees it that way, judging by what an angry bastard he is in the old testament.

Jesus is sort of like the cuddly-wuddly version of god. A bit like David Cameron to Margaret Thatcher.

And also to your other coments, for someone who dislikes bible bashers you seem to know a whole lot about the bible yourself. Infact you seem like a disrespectful & ignorant person

perhaps he was brought up in religious surrounding BUT has his own brain and can make choices for himself rather than being brainwashed by a load of stories written over 2000 years ago.
Anyway its not very "christian" to judge someone so quickly is it?

Good answer.

As science becomes stronger, religion becomes less believable. But hey, thats what god wants us to think, right?

As far as im concerned its a boil on the arse of humanity and in somes cases our way of explaining away our own mortality..

Its caused more wars, deaths, misery and oppression than anything else in mankind's history. Also if there are so many thousands of religions with different version of GOD, they cant all be right can they, so come judgement day, what happens if you chose the wrong one.

youre fucked aint ya.

Des1 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the old testament would definitely be an 18 film, if they made a realistic version of it. Hell, I doubt it would even be shown in the cinema, you'd have to download it from some sort of sicko website.

That's what makes me crack up when Christian's talk about how Islam is a religion of violence, do they not read the bible? God was forever telling people to go and slay everyone in the village. What about God sencind the angel of detah to kill the first born of everyone in Egypt?

However, as a christian, you are meant to turn the other cheek, however, I don't think God sees it that way, judging by what an angry bastard he is in the old testament.

Jesus is sort of like the cuddly-wuddly version of god. A bit like David Cameron to Margaret Thatcher.

And also to your other coments, for someone who dislikes bible bashers you seem to know a whole lot about the bible yourself. Infact you seem like a disrespectful & ignorant person

As J said, I was brought up a Catholic, and after extensive thought and reading, decided I thought the whole thing was poppycock.

As for being disrespectful, well, it doesn't surprise me that you think so, I assume you are a christian?

I find the intolerance and hypersensitivity of religious zealots extremely irksome. I'm perfectly prepared to have my viewpoints challenged, without becoming upset or animated. The same can not generally be said for religious fanatics of any kind, who take great umbrage with anything which might mock or question their standpoint.

If there is a god, which I'm pretty convinced there isn't, I would find it strange that as master of the entire universe, he would get all upset by one tiny, insignificant little speck like me calling him a bastard. Surely he has more important and vast issues to think about?

You have a right to believe whatever you see fit, I have a right to say that I think it's cobblers or mock it, you in turn have every right to mock whatever I may think, I couldn't care less, you probably do.

Benn comes out with some intriguing insights. He was a fine fighter and now seems a wise bloke not to mention a compelling figure. However, you feel if he hadn't secluded himself, he still could/would be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I'll never let it drop, about his religious conversion at the end of his book and then seeing him look like a complete thug on that Get Me Out of Here show.

Autobarn wrote:Benn comes out with some intriguing insights. He was a fine fighter and now seems a wise bloke not to mention a compelling figure. However, you feel if he hadn't secluded himself, he still could/would be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I'll never let it drop, about his religious conversion at the end of his book and then seeing him look like a complete thug on that Get Me Out of Here show.

I never watched that what was he like on it?

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Benn comes out with some intriguing insights. He was a fine fighter and now seems a wise bloke not to mention a compelling figure. However, you feel if he hadn't secluded himself, he still could/would be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I'll never let it drop, about his religious conversion at the end of his book and then seeing him look like a complete thug on that Get Me Out of Here show.

I never watched that what was he like on it?

ranting and raving, shoprt tempered, volatile - did himself no favors. Got into a row with a female comedian, said he wished she was a bloke so he could batter her.

Autobarn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Autobarn wrote:Benn comes out with some intriguing insights. He was a fine fighter and now seems a wise bloke not to mention a compelling figure. However, you feel if he hadn't secluded himself, he still could/would be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I'll never let it drop, about his religious conversion at the end of his book and then seeing him look like a complete thug on that Get Me Out of Here show.

I never watched that what was he like on it?

ranting and raving, shoprt tempered, volatile - did himself no favors. Got into a row with a female comedian, said he wished she was a bloke so he could batter her.

Have you seen who he was stuck there with?

Christine Hamilton, Janet St Porter, Paul Burrell, Carol Thatcher, David Dickinson, Rhona Cameron, Jilly Goolden, Bobby Ball, Jenny Bond.

His behaviour was entirely justified.

Terry D wrote:Early parts of the OT are prophecy, then it becomes a manual for a nomadic tribe (including clothing and dietary requirements to suit their needs), a census and then, when they end-up in shit creek, it, again, becomes a prophetic manual.

Not sure what the fuss is about when it comes to old JC. The bare sketch of his life - he lived, worked then died - is all you can say absolutely one-hundred percent. Maybe he was really Jack the Ripper, I don't know.

JC is Socrates. Judas was Antigone and Peter was Mandelson Mk I. All the early Christians, or most of them, were Neo-Platonist's and a parts of the NT warn us about the men who seek power and what low characters they have. The original Pontiff especially. He was no Judas.

God is Heidegger.

There is not even really much evidence Jesus existed, well, someone existed, but whether he was called Jesus is another matter. There were a number of prophets around at that time, and there is only one of the gospels of the four which was written near contemporary. There were lots of other gospels which were 'lost' or rather, written out of the collection of texts that became the bible.

There is very little written about Jesus that isn't later fabrication, the original gospel of his life was only 28 pages long. The rest was added at a later date, and the later gospels were just reworkings of the original gospel with lots of stuff added.

J wrote:

Des1 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Exactly, the old testament would definitely be an 18 film, if they made a realistic version of it. Hell, I doubt it would even be shown in the cinema, you'd have to download it from some sort of sicko website.

That's what makes me crack up when Christian's talk about how Islam is a religion of violence, do they not read the bible? God was forever telling people to go and slay everyone in the village. What about God sencind the angel of detah to kill the first born of everyone in Egypt?

However, as a christian, you are meant to turn the other cheek, however, I don't think God sees it that way, judging by what an angry bastard he is in the old testament.

Jesus is sort of like the cuddly-wuddly version of god. A bit like David Cameron to Margaret Thatcher.

And also to your other coments, for someone who dislikes bible bashers you seem to know a whole lot about the bible yourself. Infact you seem like a disrespectful & ignorant person

perhaps he was brought up in religious surrounding BUT has his own brain and can make choices for himself rather than being brainwashed by a load of stories written over 2000 years ago.
Anyway its not very "christian" to judge someone so quickly is it?

Maybe he is making choices for himself and he is not infact brainwashed, anyway isnt that 'pre-judging' stating that?

not really i know james pretty well so have substance to go on.

WOW this thread went off on a real tangent hasn't it? As for all the atheists here. I think you're being pretty disrespectful/unthoughtful. I'm agnostic myself and flirt with atheism BUT I WOULD NEVER ATTACK SOMEONES RELIGION. Many love their God/Faith as much as their most loved parent. Its the reason they do good, its the reason they have hope when their whole existance is crumbling and in ruins around them. It makes better people of some and helps them strive towards morality and being better more charitable people. To attack that part of them and their beliefs is simply wrong.

Religion doesn't have to be something you believe in. You can simply look for the good in it and appreciate it for what it is.

Des1 wrote:

J wrote:

Des1 wrote: And also to your other coments, for someone who dislikes bible bashers you seem to know a whole lot about the bible yourself. Infact you seem like a disrespectful & ignorant person

perhaps he was brought up in religious surrounding BUT has his own brain and can make choices for himself rather than being brainwashed by a load of stories written over 2000 years ago.
Anyway its not very "christian" to judge someone so quickly is it?

Maybe he is making choices for himself and he is not infact brainwashed, anyway isnt that 'pre-judging' stating that?

J does indeed know me and my background and I was raised a catholic.

Started reading 'The god delusion' last night. Interesting reading.

If you believe in something, or hold to a system of values, then stand up and defend it/them. If your faith or belief is shaken by someone else's comments then you should look closely at your reaction.

You can't just put a lid on a discussion because someone has said something you don't like. If you believe your doctrine is right then how can you be offended by someone else's comments, flippant or otherwise. Only the insecure need to take offence in a discussion of theories and belief systems.

Good luck to Nigel. The man has had a lot to deal with and after the McClellan fight I'm sure he's needed to find some meaning in which to frame his life. I'm glad he's found some meaning.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:WOW this thread went off on a real tangent hasn't it? As for all the atheists here. I think you're being pretty disrespectful/unthoughtful. I'm agnostic myself and flirt with atheism BUT I WOULD NEVER ATTACK SOMEONES RELIGION. Many love their God/Faith as much as their most loved parent. Its the reason they do good, its the reason they have hope when their whole existance is crumbling and in ruins around them. It makes better people of some and helps them strive towards morality and being better more charitable people. To attack that part of them and their beliefs is simply wrong.

Religion doesn't have to be something you believe in. You can simply look for the good in it and appreciate it for what it is.

its a friggin boxing site Phenom, i find it offensive that folk can be sanctimoneous enough to preach.

if i wanted to listen to that id go to church mate or click on a religious website hence I rile against it .

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

T.M.K wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: however, I don't think God sees it that way, judging by what an angry bastard he is in the old testament.

A little more tact in future please Mr McDonnell. :thumbdown:

best wishes

"T.M.K"

Why? That's my opinion, the god of the old Testament is a very nasty bit of work, always condeming and punishing people. The christian religion is based on Jesus in any case. It's his teachings.

The old testament is Judaism not christianity.

No my friend, I meant there is no need to be so harsh with your wordings.

We saw our Islamic followers going mad about a very unoffensive cartoon joke a while back (remember the Danish embassy for example?) - and that we should all speak of religions with a little more tact.

If I said the same about Allah I am sure Muslims would be up in arms and I'd be branded racist - however it doesnt mean the same can be used against God, Jesus or Christianity.

Please, keep your opinions and beliefs, that is your right and I wouldn't ask you to change them, but perhaps finder a less ofeensive and nicer way to prove your point in future, one which is a little less flippant.

(Just in case you wonder - I am not upset, perfectly calm sitting here typing this - just trying to point it out, that's all)


best wishes

"T.M.K"

No offence intended.

There's an interesting section on just this topic in the book I am reading. As Dawkins points out, whilst it is perfectly acceptable to argue with people on any number of topics, but no religion, which is, to pardon the pun, held sacred. Why? Why are we not allowed to criticise or question religious beliefs for fear of offending people? Why should we allow freedom of speech to be eroded on this issue. I am all against condemning racism, but not having regligion given special priviledges.

In the book I am reading, there was a test case in America, where a Muslim woman took her husband to court for beating her, and the judge foolishly said that as it was 'part of their culture' (the culture being the sharia law practiced in a particular country, I forget which) that he couldn't prosecute the man. The judge was immediately removed from his post, but it does show how ridiculous things get where religion is concerned.

In fact, the whole business over those cartoons was whipped into a frenzy by a very small group of muslims who actually faked some of the material themselves, like the one of the guy with the pig nose on, which was taken from a french car advert!

They set out with an agenda to try and cause strife

I have nothing against people wishing to hold religious beliefs in supernatural entities of any kind, but I reserve the right to state that I think it is a load of cobblers. There's nothing offensive about that I don't think, merely that I disagree with something is not reason enough for someone to become offended (not referring to you.)

One question though...if you believe in god, do you believe that he is a real being who takes an interest in the affairs of man, or merely an entity of some kind who created the universe and then buggered off?

It frightens me how religion in America is becoming integrally involved in politics. Everyone in American politics has to claim they are religious to stand any chance of being elected.

Apparently in polls done over what would most turn people off voting for a presidential candidate, being an atheist came out on top.

When a local Cancer specialist in the south tried to organise a demonstration against a local preacher who was urging people to throw away their medications and pray instead, the local constabulary threatened the doctor with physical violence if he tried to stage a demonstration. This is incredibly worrying.


As I said, individuals can hold whatever beliefs they like, but those beliefs should not be used to write laws or govern countries.

Somebody once said.

"The Bible is a guide for wise men, a rule book for fools"

Terry D wrote:

Autobarn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: I never watched that what was he like on it?

ranting and raving, shoprt tempered, volatile - did himself no favors. Got into a row with a female comedian, said he wished she was a bloke so he could batter her.

To be fair to him she did look like a bloke so he may have been a bit overzealous, then again he is a Christian and they don't do things by half.

yeah, but this was some time after his miracle conversion!

Nigeli extremely amenable, top man