BoxRec

We can and should appreciate both our guys.

I do that with any British fighter who goes to world class.

But the consensus is that whilst Calzaghe was good enough and has reigned for long enough, he just hasn't put on the fights that would determine one way or another where he stands alongside the P4P guys, during his reign. Hence the debate about how he may have went against those same fighters, where the proof should already be there for posterity.

Calzaghe's fought some bad ones but so have most greats. He's shown how great of a fighter he Is without fighting Jones Jr or whoever has been mentioned.

He may of lost to Jones but he would give Roy a close fight. Roy couldn't showboat him.

Hatton beat a generally regarded top 3 P4P fighter and has followed it up with a resounding win against another P4Per. They may have been on the slide but no one can ignore the nature of those wins. If, as expected, he fights one or two of the P4Pers at WW he will have proven more than Calzaghe in a shorter career. I think this sums up most peoples opinion when comparing JC and RH.

Castillo was P4p. I think It was a good win due to him being the first to KO Castillo clean but Hatton seemed to have got Castillo at the right time and he seems to be one of those fighters who get these good fights at the right times.

Yeah I get patriotic too.

Comparing Tszyu and Lacy in any way, shape or form is like comparing a Lada to an Aston Martin DB9

Captain Hook wrote:Comparing Tszyu and Lacy in any way, shape or form is like comparing a Lada to an Aston Martin DB9

Yawwn.

I was only saying the Lacy win was better because of the dominance and how spectacular Joe was.

Twisted Transistor wrote: Yawwn.

I was only saying the Lacy win was better because of the dominance and how spectacular Joe was.

Not exactly a fair comparison though with Tszyu FAR better than Lacy. Would Calzaghe have performed as well against someone near the top of the P4P lists? It's quite possible but we will never know. Would he have beat someone like Hopkins? I think he would've but that ship has sailed.

Hattons style wont allow him to completely dominate a fight.

Calzaghe has better skills, has been champ long time but in 2 years as champion Hatton has done more than Joe has in a decade. Sorry, but nearly ALL of Joe's opponents were farces.

The Callazo fight, stepping up in weight to fight young world champion who'd beaten reigning 154lbs champ, is easily better win for Ricky than Eubank (weight drained who took Joe fight at 9days notice), Reid (lost every round to Malinga, still beat Joe and NEVER given rematch), Woodhall (lost every round to Beyer, knocked down 3 times in opening round), Veit (actually think these were decent wins for Joe), Mitchell (coming off a loss but very good win, even though he knocked Joe down and Joe needed ref's help).

Yeah, you can say "But Hatton didn't look great v Collazo" but he didn't get knocked down (like Joe did v Mitchell or that Nutter from the Nile) and was fighting a young, hungry world champion.

And Tszyu win was leagues above Lacy win, as good as it was, and so was Castillo KO.

Calzaghe has beaten ONE defending world champion in his entire career. Hatton has beaten 3.

Really no contest. Hatton wants to be a great champion, Joe just wants to stay home and earn a good living. That's the difference.

Exactly, what was the yawn for?

Try following a career before making a judgement and making such sweeping statements....

Or follow MMA

nickd wrote:It's quite simple..... talent wise Calzaghe is the better of the two. Achievement wise Hatton is the better of the two by a long way.

That just about sums it up. No need for a complex analysis.

Not sure I agree with that. Both have their flaws (mainly defence). Hatton's hand speed was very impressive vs Castillo... thats probably where the big edge has been given to Joe in the past, not so sure now. I think Hatton's footwork is better than Joe's and when he has been cautious of the opponents power (e.g. Tackie) his body movement is better than Joe's.

Hatton has shown one punch KO power also.

Both rely on throwing many punches in a round, just think Hatton has more variety - he mixes body and head more than Joe (who is a bit of a head hunter).

I should add: If Joe fights and beats Kessler then I'd say his body of work - as average as it is but as deep as it is - will pip him over Hatton.

Smit wrote:

Twisted Transistor wrote: Yawwn.

I was only saying the Lacy win was better because of the dominance and how spectacular Joe was.

Not exactly a fair comparison though with Tszyu FAR better than Lacy. Would Calzaghe have performed as well against someone near the top of the P4P lists? It's quite possible but we will never know. Would he have beat someone like Hopkins? I think he would've but that ship has sailed.

Hattons style wont allow him to completely dominate a fight.

I take it you didn't see Hatton vs Castillo then?

stujones wrote: I take it you didn't see Hatton vs Castillo then?

I did see the Castillo fight but didn't think it was a completely dominating performance. Thought he smothered some of his work and he did get caught a few times but that's his style.

Twisted Transistor wrote:I've seen Tszyu Vs Hatton and Tszyu Vs Judah.

I was asking Nick If he's saying Hatton achievement wise Is better by a long way because of one win?

Hatton beat Tszyu who is way better than anyone on Calzahe's resume. He then took his show on the road to the US and out of his comfort zone and went up a division to win another title. Then back down to be the man at 140 again and of course the recent blowout of Castillo. Castillo it could be argued is also better than anyone on Calzaghe's resume. Of course he was past his best but Hatton did a job on him.

Hatton's achievements are ahead of stay-at-home Joe's by a long stretch IMO. Hatton could have gone on to be 60-0 if he'd stayed with Warren fighting at the MEN but he has put it all on the line to go to the US and prove himself. Calzaghe has not! He did travel to Copenhagen to fight McIntyre though!

Case closed...

Thank you your honour!

nickd wrote:

Twisted Transistor wrote:I've seen Tszyu Vs Hatton and Tszyu Vs Judah.

I was asking Nick If he's saying Hatton achievement wise Is better by a long way because of one win?

Hatton beat Tszyu who is way better than anyone on Calzahe's resume. He then took his show on the road to the US and out of his comfort zone and went up a division to win another title. Then back down to be the man at 140 again and of course the recent blowout of Castillo. Castillo it could be argued is also better than anyone on Calzaghe's resume. Of course he was past his best but Hatton did a job on him.

Hatton's achievements are ahead of stay-at-home Joe's by a long stretch IMO. Hatton could have gone on to be 60-0 if he'd stayed with Warren fighting at the MEN but he has put it all on the line to go to the US and prove himself. Calzaghe has not! He did travel to Copenhagen to fight McIntyre though!

You wern't that positive on Hatton before the Castillo fight and said that It was obvious they were picking Castillo at the right time.

Yeah, went back down to fight Urango who was a boy compared to Hatton.

Going to US Is Irrelevant, the opposition matters more. Joe has fought good and bad opp at super middle with 20 defences Including unification. so no way Is Hatton past him achievement wise even If he Is, It's not a long stretch.

One big name like Tszyu doesn't say he's ahead of Calzaghe achievement wise by a long stretch.

Warren would of got Castillo, Urango, Maussa and Callazo If Ricky wanted them, If he was promoting he could of taken Hatton to America too like Hamed.

Like I said, ground Is irrelevant.

Blah blah blah same old same old. Only you and Calzaghe himself would claim he has achieved more or as much as Hatton. Facts are facts.

And what the heck does Twisted Transistor mean? Is that a band?

don't feck with NickD, he's Barry Chuckle, I'm Paul...

"To me, to you"...

nickd wrote: Hatton beat Tszyu who is way better than anyone on Calzahe's resume. !

You could make an argument that Eubanks better than Tyszu

nickd wrote:Blah blah blah same old same old. Only you and Calzaghe himself would claim he has achieved more or as much as Hatton. Facts are facts.

Well that shows how bright you are.

Facts are facts with Calzaghe 10 years as champ Including 20 defences and unification and being more dominant than Hatton.

One name doesn't say Hatton has achieved more. He won't fight Witter like you complained about when you were posting negative on Hatton before Castillo.

Taken more than two years since Tszyu for another good fight while Calzaghe's fighting Kessler less than 2 years later since he demolished Lacy when you all weirdly favoured Lacy.

Ah well at least he's finally chasing Floyd after thinking he wasn't ready.

And what the heck does Twisted Transistor mean? Is that a band?

If you've heard of a band named Korn then It's the name of one of their songs.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EmXTCQ38FJo

Captain Hook wrote:And what the heck does Twisted Transistor mean? Is that a band?

don't feck with NickD, he's Barry Chuckle, I'm Paul...

"To me, to you"...

Nick D Is easy to feck with If all he can reply with Is blah blah blah.

Twisted Transistor wrote:

nickd wrote:Blah blah blah same old same old. Only you and Calzaghe himself would claim he has achieved more or as much as Hatton. Facts are facts.

Well that shows how bright you are.

Facts are facts with Calzaghe 10 years as champ Including 20 defences and unification and being more dominant than Hatton.

One name doesn't say Hatton has achieved more. He won't fight Witter like you complained about when you were posting negative on Hatton before Castillo.

Taken more than two years since Tszyu for another good fight while Calzaghe's fighting Kessler less than 2 years later since he demolished Lacy when you all weirdly favoured Lacy.

Ah well at least he's finally chasing Floyd after thinking he wasn't ready.

And what the heck does Twisted Transistor mean? Is that a band?

If you've heard of a band named Korn then It's the name of one of their songs.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EmXTCQ38FJo

In the 18 months or so between Joe beating Lacy and his proposed fight with Kessler he bored everyone to tears with a laboured points win over Bika and then had that farce against Manfredo.

In the 2 years between beating a nailed on HoFer in Tszyu and a top p4p in Castillo, Hatton took belts off three opponants, one at a higher weight on only 5 weeks notice, 2 of them soutpaws, 1 of them of fcuking awkward fighter and 2 of them away from the comforts of home (not to mention the Castillo fight that was in Vegas, traditionally a fervent pro-mexican crowd).

The difference speaks for itself.

While JC has proven to be a class boxer, a number of 'what if' questions will persist once his career is over. At least Hatton is putting his nuts on the line, risking his unbeaten record trying to ensure that his career doesn't end with the same doubts.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote: Hatton beat Tszyu who is way better than anyone on Calzahe's resume. !

You could make an argument that Eubanks better than Tyszu

You could try to make the argument, but you wouldn't be very successful. As good as Eubank was, he was a level below Tszyu. We are so blinkered in this country when it comes to local fighters. Eubank was barely even no 1 in his weight at his peak. Tszyu dominated for years.

Since when Is Castillo a p4p fighter?

How can you use belts to justify Urango, Maussa and Callazo?

Fair enough Maussa was a unification and easy defence since fighters shouldn't be having big fight after big fight, but Urango took Hatton's old belt and Callazo was a normal WBA champ until Judah lost and Baldomir wouldn't pay the sanction fee.

Ooo 5 weeks notice Is so much short time to prepare for an oponnent. He was already In the gym for 7 weeks since Hatton has 12 week camps so he had preparation time. He could of just dehydrated less water Instead of changing diet.

Hatton's always been troubled by Southpaws what makes Callazo different?

Comforts of home? Ground doesn't matter If promoted fairly.

At least Calzaghe didn't give excuses about the opponents being bigger when the real reason was he just ploughed In with no defence. Survivors like Bika make bad fights.

Against Urango he gave the excuse of a chest Infection.

Hatton gets away with way too much just because he beat Tszyu.

Calzaghe's risking his record against Kessler who like Lacy you guys are way overrating as a threat to Calzaghe.

Twisted Transistor wrote:Since when Is Castillo a p4p fighter?

How can you use belts to justify Urango, Maussa and Callazo?

Fair enough Maussa was a unification and easy defence since fighters shouldn't be having big fight after big fight, but Urango took Hatton's old belt and Callazo was a normal WBA champ until Judah lost and Baldomir wouldn't pay the sanction fee.

Ooo 5 weeks notice Is so much short time to prepare for an oponnent. He was already In the gym for 7 weeks since Hatton has 12 week camps so he had preparation time. He could of just dehydrated less water Instead of changing diet.

Hatton's always been troubled by Southpaws what makes Callazo different?

Comforts of home? Ground doesn't matter If promoted fairly.

At least Calzaghe didn't give excuses about the opponents being bigger when the real reason was he just ploughed In with no defence. Survivors like Bika make bad fights.

Against Urango he gave the excuse of a chest Infection.

Hatton gets away with way too much just because he beat Tszyu.

Calzaghe's risking his record against Kessler who like Lacy you guys are way overrating as a threat to Calzaghe.

CAstillo is a p4p fighter since beating WORLD RANKED fighters (Corrales, Diaz, Casamayor, Johnston and Quinonez) on a regular basis. He also gave the current p4p No 1 the hardest fights of his unbeaten career (according to Floyd). That you haven't heard of him is not a reason to discount his accomplishments and his place in the boxing hierarchy.

I can justify Urango, Collazo and Maussa more than anyone can justify Bika and Manfredo - that was my point - he could have taken some easy mandatories, taken the money and sat on his pot of gold, but he didn't. He took challenging fights and took risks to increase his exposure in the states, with the ultimate goal of setting up a big money fight with mayweather or cotto. A strategy that seems to be paying off (fingers crossed).

You clearly know far more about training regimes than I - I would have thought there was more to stepping up in weight against a top 5 ranked opponent than just dehydrating less, but what do i know?

Calzaghe is risking his record against Kessler, but apart from the Lacy fight (and even that you are saying was a given for JC), his reign has been low risk. Again, your ignorance about a fighter doesn't mean that he is no good.

Hattons reign (remembering that we are talking from Tszyu on) has been more impressive, and it's only lasted 6 fights.

Before you reply - please take a look at the fights of CAstillo (the ones I mentioned above) and Tszyu (v Mitchell (x2), Judah, Chavez, Gonzalez, Leija, Rodriguez & Pineda). Then you come back and tell me that Hatton is overrated because he beat Tszyu.

Who the hell said I didn't hear of Castillo, of course I've heard of him.

Castillo was no P4p fighter by the time Hatton got him even If Castillo used to be P4p.

Maussa and Urango challenging fights? He basically won every round against both of them and It was his own fault Callazo was nearly beat him.

Like I said ground I.e fighting In the states doesn't matter.

He keeps saying he'll fight Mayweather and Cotto then they step up In weights he says he's not natural at which Is crap. He doesn't go Into the ring weighing 10st so by logic he's not naturally 10st.

Ignorant? I don't deny Calzaghe has had low risk fights like Hatton fans thinking fights like Urango and Castillo were risks. I didn't say Hatton wasn't good I have said Hatton Is a good or great fighter either way.

Calzaghe's dominance Is more Impressive than Hatton having to walk through straights, hold then rough them up on the Inside with bodyshots. Except for Castillo, since Tszyu, Hatton hasn't looked as good.

Why should I get the fights of the ones you mentioned? I'm talking about Hatton for the majority of the posts, I don't deny Tszyu Is Impressive but my point Is how can Hatton get away with criticism because of one win? Calzaghe ain't getting away with It for wins over Eubank or Lacy.

earsjohn wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

nickd wrote: Hatton beat Tszyu who is way better than anyone on Calzahe's resume. !

You could make an argument that Eubanks better than Tyszu

You could try to make the argument, but you wouldn't be very successful. As good as Eubank was, he was a level below Tszyu. We are so blinkered in this country when it comes to local fighters. Eubank was barely even no 1 in his weight at his peak. Tszyu dominated for years.

Tyszu dominated against who though? Good fighters but not great 1s (outside of shot to pieces Chavez) but his wins are not any better than Benn/Watson/Rochiagani. And Eubank looks more impressive on film than Tyszu

No Eubank wasn't the best in his weight classes but if Tyszu shared a division with Jones Jr and Toney he wouldnt be either. Would Tyszu have been no1 at his weight if Delahoya and Mosley decided to stop there? I doubt it