BoxRec

mattym wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Define stronger.

Do you reckon that Oscar is physically stronger than Hatton, do you think he could bench more, squat more, is more explosive, or has better stamina and fitness than hatton, because I don't at all.

Theres different types of strength but overall Oscars strength, size, power is greater than Hattons. Hes carrying round 10-15lbs of more mass than Hatton.

I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true. Remember how Urango threw Ricky around?

Rickys strength is his stamina of strength, he can continually apply his strength and continually pressure. But lets not pretend Mayweather hasn't fought stronger fighters, fitter fighters or quicker fighters because he has. He just hasn't tasted Rickys unique combination of the 3

how do you know what Hatton 'benches' i assume you're talking about 1 rep maxes?

Pix on his website and statements made by his trainer from a good while ago

Carbo wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true.

Was that during the time he was gettng help from the kind people at BALCO?

Who knows they might not be legit anyway. Mosley was never proved of Roiding was he? Many boxers have had steroid experts around them including a certain Mr Hatton, Tyson and Holyfield

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

mattym wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Theres different types of strength but overall Oscars strength, size, power is greater than Hattons. Hes carrying round 10-15lbs of more mass than Hatton.

I don't know what Oscar squats/benches, Hattons squat and bench aren't very impressive at all. Mosley supposedly benches 365lbs and squats 500lbs+ thats about twice what Haton does if true. Remember how Urango threw Ricky around?

Rickys strength is his stamina of strength, he can continually apply his strength and continually pressure. But lets not pretend Mayweather hasn't fought stronger fighters, fitter fighters or quicker fighters because he has. He just hasn't tasted Rickys unique combination of the 3

how do you know what Hatton 'benches' i assume you're talking about 1 rep maxes?

Pix on his website and statements made by his trainer from a good while ago

Kerry doesn't (dare) ever do anything close to one rep max. with Ricky because of the fear of injury. So Ricky only ever, has only over, and will only ever train with about 60-70% of the weight he CAN use because Kerry Kayes has one arm tied behind his back with regards to Ricky's strength training.

in the 'ask Kerry a question' topic on Ricky's website someone asked what Ricky can bench and what his max. is and Kerry couldn't answer because he says he never uses maximum effort because of the injury risk.

mattym wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

mattym wrote:how do you know what Hatton 'benches' i assume you're talking about 1 rep maxes?

Pix on his website and statements made by his trainer from a good while ago

Kerry doesn't (dare) ever do anything close to one rep max. with Ricky because of the fear of injury. So Ricky only ever, has only over, and will only ever train with about 60-70% of the weight he CAN use because Kerry Kayes has one arm tied behind his back with regards to Ricky's strength training.

in the 'ask Kerry a question' topic on Ricky's website someone asked what Ricky can bench and what his max. is and Kerry couldn't answer because he says he never uses maximum effort because of the injury risk.

Umm BS and are you purposely talking crap or is it out of ignorance? Max Effort doesn't risk injury unless maybe if your Roiding. Sparing and even punching heavybag carry much mroe risk of injury than weights. Unless you haven't got a clue what your doing, which I presume Kerry does have a clue.

Lifting weights at 60% of a max offers no benefits to a boxer. NO BENEFIT AT ALL. Only at 80%+ gives benefit. Kayes himself said the only weights Ricky did were with heavyweights and low reps on RHs website. Don't believe everything Kayes says anyway, despite been decent with the nutritional side he doesn't know much about sports training anyway as hes an ex-bodybuilder

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

mattym wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Pix on his website and statements made by his trainer from a good while ago

Kerry doesn't (dare) ever do anything close to one rep max. with Ricky because of the fear of injury. So Ricky only ever, has only over, and will only ever train with about 60-70% of the weight he CAN use because Kerry Kayes has one arm tied behind his back with regards to Ricky's strength training.

in the 'ask Kerry a question' topic on Ricky's website someone asked what Ricky can bench and what his max. is and Kerry couldn't answer because he says he never uses maximum effort because of the injury risk.

Umm BS and are you purposely talking crap or is it out of ignorance? Max Effort doesn't risk injury unless maybe if your Roiding. Sparing and even punching heavybag carry much mroe risk of injury than weights. Unless you haven't got a clue what your doing, which I presume Kerry does have a clue.

Lifting weights at 60% of a max offers no benefits to a boxer. NO BENEFIT AT ALL. Only at 80%+ gives benefit. Kayes himself said the only weights Ricky did were with heavyweights and low reps on RHs website. Don't believe everything Kayes says anyway, despite been decent with the nutritional side he doesn't know much about sports training anyway as hes an ex-bodybuilder

lol eeeeasy mate i don't claim to know 3everything - never have done, no need to get hostile!

Kerry has said he would like to work around 80% but doesn't want to risk injuries using heavy weights so drops it a little bit further.

Maybe i am wrong mate but using heavier weights and putting the muscles under more stress is more likely to result in injury than puttting them under comparitively less stress.

According to Kerry Kayes, Hatton trains with weights to become stronger, more explosive, faster etc. Kayes has stated in order to achieve this, you have to perofrm weight lifting until failure (you can do no more).

Another interesting point what Kayes states, is that he doesn't allow Ricky to use free-weights because of the prospect of injuries occuring. Kayes reckons Hatton would be even stronger if he were to use free-weights, but it's too risky.

Does Mayweather lift weights? He looks more like the type to do more body-weight exercises, resistance, rather than actual weight lifting.

mattym wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

mattym wrote:Kerry doesn't (dare) ever do anything close to one rep max. with Ricky because of the fear of injury. So Ricky only ever, has only over, and will only ever train with about 60-70% of the weight he CAN use because Kerry Kayes has one arm tied behind his back with regards to Ricky's strength training.

in the 'ask Kerry a question' topic on Ricky's website someone asked what Ricky can bench and what his max. is and Kerry couldn't answer because he says he never uses maximum effort because of the injury risk.

Umm BS and are you purposely talking crap or is it out of ignorance? Max Effort doesn't risk injury unless maybe if your Roiding. Sparing and even punching heavybag carry much mroe risk of injury than weights. Unless you haven't got a clue what your doing, which I presume Kerry does have a clue.

Lifting weights at 60% of a max offers no benefits to a boxer. NO BENEFIT AT ALL. Only at 80%+ gives benefit. Kayes himself said the only weights Ricky did were with heavyweights and low reps on RHs website. Don't believe everything Kayes says anyway, despite been decent with the nutritional side he doesn't know much about sports training anyway as hes an ex-bodybuilder

lol eeeeasy mate i don't claim to know 3everything - never have done, no need to get hostile!

Kerry has said he would like to work around 80% but doesn't want to risk injuries using heavy weights so drops it a little bit further.

Maybe i am wrong mate but using heavier weights and putting the muscles under more stress is more likely to result in injury than puttting them under comparitively less stress.

I appologise for being insulting mate got a bit carried away. No doing an occasional 1 rep max is unlikely to injure yourself. Again don't believe everything Kerry Kayes says, especially on the training side.

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote:It is not beyond the realms of reason that Floyd himself could be hurt. We cannot say one-hundred percent that his chin is granite simply because few people have landed the 2nd and 3rd shots in a sequence on him.

As Michael Corleone said: "If history has taught us anything it is that anyone can be knocked-out."

Well I think the point of the thread is everyones writing off Mayweathers offensive arsenal and hyping up Hattons offense. Yes Mayweather can be hurt but he took flush shots from DLH, Judah and Castillo. His chin certainly isn't china

Basically the fight boils down to who can get their shots off first? Who can have the most effective footwork? And can either fighter take the other out late if they're behind on the cards.

If the answer to the first 2 is Mayweather I can't see Hatton winning.

I thought the thread topic was about Floyd's offensive capabilities and I think that Hatton has some of his own. This 12-0 in rounds nonsense on the Current Scene is, well, nonsense.

Floyd was lucky not to get a knockdown called against Judah and although many say Judah is a far harder and sharper hitter than Hatton can we envisage Judah banging out Castillo or stopping Tszyu? Definitely not Tszyu anyway. Judah hit him with sharp shots but Hatton hit him with heavier shots and more of them. That is the point for me.

Floyd has been tagged by some sharp hitters but in this fight he could take heavier shots than he has taken before with more regularity than he is used to. Oscar hit him hard but you know with Oscar he ease off once he gets you heavily and will go back to arm-punching in a bid to make it look worse than it is.

Every defence can be breached, especially if you use one main defence. Toney was up there with Floyd in terms of using that defence and made it a fine platform for his offence (look at the fight with Williams) but it can be circumvented and the more you rely on it fight by fight the more likely it is that someone will figure it out.

If Hatton figures out how to hit Floyd with certain shots and puts those shots together it could come down to a case of who has the best offence.

Floyds footwork has gone a little too negative at times and it could be a problem for him if he sets a pattern of backwards movement.

Good points, I agree a 12-0 prediction is unlikely but then again if anyone could do that to Hatton it would be Mayweather. If Mayweather did start beating Hatton to the punch from the offset and Hatton never got inside and became discouraged this could happen. Although its not how I see it going.

As for Judah knocking Mayweather down. He did but it was a flash off balance knockdown and Mayweather wasn't hurt. But could Judah stop Castillo/Tyszu - if he landed the right shots he certainly could Judah is a massive P4P puncher, he just doesn't apply himself properly.

Your right if Mayweather is too negative it will play into Hattons hands. Because if Ricky throws and misses 1 shot he'll throw a further 6 unless hes countered. Each shot Ricky misses, Mayweather needs to counter. If Mayweather just slips and rolls from punches without countering, then Ricky will start to outland him because even if he only has a 15% success rate 15% of 800 punches is still 140 landed shots, which is substancial.

Also if Floyd backs up without using lateral movement it will also play into Rickys hands because backing up against a pressure fighter is a big no no.

Floyd has had problems with not countering enough and backing up too much against pressure fighters. It will be interesting to see how he approaches this 1.

Overall I see a mixture of all these things happening where Mayweather lands the cleaner punches winning him a UD despite Ricky pushing Mayweather to the ropes and making him uncomfortable at times until Mayweather comes back strong with very clean shots towards the end of rounds.

Rocky Balboa wrote:According to Kerry Kayes, Hatton trains with weights to become stronger, more explosive, faster etc. Kayes has stated in order to achieve this, you have to perofrm weight lifting until failure (you can do no more).

Another interesting point what Kayes states, is that he doesn't allow Ricky to use free-weights because of the prospect of injuries occuring. Kayes reckons Hatton would be even stronger if he were to use free-weights, but it's too risky.

Does Mayweather lift weights? He looks more like the type to do more body-weight exercises, resistance, rather than actual weight lifting.

You don't have to lift to failure to become stronger but it is 1 method of gaining strength. Free weights can be a risk of injury only if you have bad form.

Mayweather lifts weights but he doesn't know what hes doing

verballistic wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Rocky Balboa wrote:According to Kerry Kayes, Hatton trains with weights to become stronger, more explosive, faster etc. Kayes has stated in order to achieve this, you have to perofrm weight lifting until failure (you can do no more).

Another interesting point what Kayes states, is that he doesn't allow Ricky to use free-weights because of the prospect of injuries occuring. Kayes reckons Hatton would be even stronger if he were to use free-weights, but it's too risky.

Does Mayweather lift weights? He looks more like the type to do more body-weight exercises, resistance, rather than actual weight lifting.

You don't have to lift to failure to become stronger but it is 1 method of gaining strength. Free weights can be a risk of injury only if you have bad form.

Mayweather lifts weights but he doesn't know what hes doing

doesnt seem to keep him from being the best-conditioned athlete in the sport...which will be one of his chief advantages over ricky!! not that hatton wont be in good shape...it's just that constant fluctuations in weight undermine your conditioning over the long haul and i dont think hatton's stamina has been tested in late rounds recently---he didnt do real well in the 12th vs collazo---his only other fight at 147!!

This fight may come down to stamina to a certain extent and its possible Ricky has more of it. The fact he throws on average 60 per round compared to 40 a round from Mayweather is an interesting difference in pace. No he didn't do well against Collazo in R12 but he was throwing 60punches a round and not in his best condition

No Mayweather is still a great fighter, but he may be stronger and maybe even faster if he knew what he was doing in the weights room.

Let's be honest here. The result will be Mayweather by decision.

He's outboxed a simply better fighter in DLH, and Hatton's best opponent is an olld, shopworn Tszyu, clloselly followed by a shot Castillo. This will be another boxing show by the Pretty Boy.

Ricky can take a shot, but he's never taken them at the pinpoint speed and accuracy at which Floyd can deliver them. He's never been in with someone whose footwork is as good as Floyd's. He treats his body like shit. He probably underestimates Floyd's strength, or at least has an aggrandized view of his own effective strength. I say effective strength, because mauling won't work against Floyd, except to make Ricky more tired.

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Let's be honest here. The result will be Mayweather by decision.

He's outboxed a simply better fighter in DLH, and Hatton's best opponent is an olld, shopworn Tszyu, clloselly followed by a shot Castillo. This will be another boxing show by the Pretty Boy.

Ricky can take a shot, but he's never taken them at the pinpoint speed and accuracy at which Floyd can deliver them. He's never been in with someone whose footwork is as good as Floyd's. He treats his body like shit. He probably underestimates Floyd's strength, or at least has an aggrandized view of his own effective strength. I say effective strength, because mauling won't work against Floyd, except to make Ricky more tired.

that Tszyu and Castillo were 'shot' is your opinion. Not fact. Stop dressing it up as if its factual.

How was Tszyu shopworn?

Why are you saying he probably this and that? Why don't you find out instead of guessing. Listen to interviews with Billy Graham and he says how they think Mayweather carries a lot of firepower and they won;t be underestimating that.

i don't see why mauling won't work on Floyd, it did for Castillo and De La Hoya - against De La Hoya he became very negative and didn;t want to engage - for which Ricky Hatton would make him pay.

Tyszu was not shot but he probably was a 6round fighter who got sunk late from an unsumountable pace. Castillo is was shot until he proves otherwise, a few had him losing against average Ndoujo and hasn't beaten a top guy in 2 years.

mattym wrote:that Tszyu and Castillo were 'shot' is your opinion. Not fact. Stop dressing it up as if its factual.

I said Tszyu was "shopworn", not shot. Which is true. Not to mention he hadn't fought for a year. The Hatton fight was purelly a money fight for him.

Castillo being shot is my opinion, and the opinion of the great Emanuel Steward. If you don't listen to me, at least listen to him.

Why are you saying he probably this and that? Why don't you find out instead of guessing. Listen to interviews with Billy Graham and he says how they think Mayweather carries a lot of firepower and they won;t be underestimating that.

Just because they say it, I don't think they know just how much Floyd carries. This isn't any average fighter, this is the equivalent of Roy Jones from the mid-nineties. Mayweather will dazzle Hatton, whose defence is weak, whose power is vastly overrated, and whose style is perfect for Floyd, in that he'll walk onto Floyd's sharp shots.

i don't see why mauling won't work on Floyd, it did for Castillo and De La Hoya - against De La Hoya he became very negative and didn;t want to engage - for which Ricky Hatton would make him pay.

Castillo used educated pressure. There's a difference. Hatton's tactics will definitely earn him warnings in this fight where it didn't before, because like it or not, Floyd is the house fighter.

DLH was much bigger and stronger than Floyd, and his brawling tactics still didn't finish the job. What on earth makes you think that the less talented Hatton can? Granted, Hatton seemingly has more stamina than DLH, but fitness isn't everything, and rest assured, Floyd will be fitter than you've ever seen him.

Southpaw Stylist wrote:

mattym wrote:that Tszyu and Castillo were 'shot' is your opinion. Not fact. Stop dressing it up as if its factual.

I said Tszyu was "shopworn", not shot. Which is true. Not to mention he hadn't fought for a year. The Hatton fight was purelly a money fight for him.

Castillo being shot is my opinion, and the opinion of the great Emanuel Steward. If you don't listen to me, at least listen to him.

Why are you saying he probably this and that? Why don't you find out instead of guessing. Listen to interviews with Billy Graham and he says how they think Mayweather carries a lot of firepower and they won;t be underestimating that.

Just because they say it, I don't think they know just how much Floyd carries. This isn't any average fighter, this is the equivalent of Roy Jones from the mid-nineties. Mayweather will dazzle Hatton, whose defence is weak, whose power is vastly overrated, and whose style is perfect for Floyd, in that he'll walk onto Floyd's sharp shots.

i don't see why mauling won't work on Floyd, it did for Castillo and De La Hoya - against De La Hoya he became very negative and didn;t want to engage - for which Ricky Hatton would make him pay.

Castillo used educated pressure. There's a difference. Hatton's tactics will definitely earn him warnings in this fight where it didn't before, because like it or not, Floyd is the house fighter.

DLH was much bigger and stronger than Floyd, and his brawling tactics still didn't finish the job. What on earth makes you think that the less talented Hatton can? Granted, Hatton seemingly has more stamina than DLH, but fitness isn't everything, and rest assured, Floyd will be fitter than you've ever seen him.

Why do you make it up mate? Seriously, is there not enough actual argument for you to slag Hatton and discredit him so you make it up? Tszyu hadn't fought for a year? His previous fight was a 3round demolition of Sharmba Mitchell, 7 MONTHS before. He only had one month more layoff than Ricky Hatton did. What do you wanna make stuff up for? Prat.

i'll ask you again what you meant by shopworn. Tszyu hadn't been in enough wars or taken enough drubbings to justify that statement.

'Shot' is a bit of a pathetic word nowadays, because peope use it to discredit any fighter they want, by saying this guy was 'shot' that guy was 'shot' as if being over 30 makes them suddenly the easiest fight in the world to beat!! its a bit of a cowardly move in my opinion - you use that word to just discount what were in fact two fabulous victories, because you can't stomach giving Ricky the credit he deserves.

There was no talk about Tszyu being shot or damaged goods or shopworn before the fight, and he was favourite for the knockout because he was pound for pound top 5 at least at the time. For you to just classify him as shot, when he had such high status going into the fight is very transparent. its easy to see right through the observation.

Believe me mate - Hatton won;t walk onto Floyd's sharp shots - he'll walk through Floyd's hard shots.

Southpaw, I cannot believe you are quoting Manny Steward as backup for your theory of Castillo being shot. Manny Steward may be a great trainer, but the guy spouts more crap than a blue whale with the trots.

His opinion changes depending on who he talks to. If Hatton was interested in his services as a trainer it would suddenly be 'Hatton's victory over Castillo was one of the best performances ever seen at 140 lbs.'

Look at the shit he talked about Lennox Lewis. First it was 'Lennox should retire, he got nothing to prove, if he fights again, he could get beat, because the motivation isn't there for training, and he's not the fighter he was.....waffle waffle waffle.'

Then he gets hired to train the Klitoris brothers, and suddenly it's 'Lennox should come back and fight Vitali, I told Lennox he could carry on another two or three years when I was training him.....blah blah blah.

james you are the funniest bastard on this site. great whale with the trots gag!!! and you are right about manny. brilliant post

Castillo was a great win but he was picked at the right time.

you can be a good reader of a fighter, you can even be a great reader but to say you could have picked castillo to be at the absolute right time to get whacked in less than 4 rounds is pushing it a bit