Does JC "EQUAL or SURPASS" Ottke if he beats Kess

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Aug 2007, 15:47

How Is It better for boxing? It's good for boxing that the two best 12 stone fighters are facing each other.

Right hands land on Joe but you need more than that to beat him.

Kessler's simular to guys like Veit except quicker and better footwork.

Joe Is different from his past fights, he Improved with experience.

He looked horrible since Lacy? He easily outclassed Manfredo and Bika made Bute look shite too, the same Bute you and most were hyping up. Bika was a dirty spoiler and Joe still won.

No Kessler should watch recent fights of Joe as he's a different fighter from those fights. The right hand still lands but they still don't do enough to harm Joe.

Kessler wont be able to just step In and out jabbing, then repeat with a combo or single Jab and only defending by covering up.

Calzaghe has an Iron chin to stand up to the odd right that lands.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 22 Aug 2007, 16:11

Calzaghe does have a good chin but at times he can be a bit careless, getting caught by those big straight rights on the way in could cause his legs to buckle. Joe's superior speed and workrate will be a key factor against Kessler.

Calzaghe has already surpassed Ottke though and a win over Kessler will surely make him the greatest SMW of all time?

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 22 Aug 2007, 17:06

Twisted Transistor wrote:How Is It better for boxing? It's good for boxing that the two best 12 stone fighters are facing each other.

Right hands land on Joe but you need more than that to beat him.

Kessler's simular to guys like Veit except quicker and better footwork.

Joe Is different from his past fights, he Improved with experience.

He looked horrible since Lacy? He easily outclassed Manfredo and Bika made Bute look shite too, the same Bute you and most were hyping up. Bika was a dirty spoiler and Joe still won.

No Kessler should watch recent fights of Joe as he's a different fighter from those fights. The right hand still lands but they still don't do enough to harm Joe.

Kessler wont be able to just step In and out jabbing, then repeat with a combo or single Jab and only defending by covering up.

Calzaghe has an Iron chin to stand up to the odd right that lands.

Bute will be IBF champion soon and yes, Bika made him look bad too but Bute is a guy whose trainer acknowledged "is not top notch yet...is still learning" while Calzaghe's a 10 year world title veteran and should have done better.

Cazlaghe's not different. The Lacy fight doesn't make him different but just showed what he's been holding back. His hands are getting worst and he's going to lose.

If Kessler wins it's better because he'll go and grab the big fights. Kessler is stronger, fitter, tougher, has better timing, accuracy and is more assertive and durable and altogether 70% better than Veit.

Joe is really up against it this time. He's fighting a guy who isn't two years past his best. Who hasn't had the disappointment of defeat. Who isn't a guy that has to make do with shit money and come over as the opponent. Who's had competitive rounds. Who has two good arms (Woodhall landed better punches tha anyone on Joe yet his right arm was badly injured). Who dominates most of his own fights at world level.

You should be worried.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 23 Aug 2007, 05:05

Sounds rather like Lacy to me............

As for being fitter than Calzaghe, there have never been any signs of Calzaghe lacking fitness, that is absolute rot! Calzaghe's engine is second to none in the division.

More durable? Based on what precisely, what big punchers has Kessler faced?

More assertive? Bollocks mate, Kessler is much more tentative and methodical than Calzaghe who in big fights is hyper aggressive, and one of the fastest starters in the sport.

Yes, Joe is up against it, but then so is Kessler, this is an even money fight more or less.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 23 Aug 2007, 08:45

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Sounds rather like Lacy to me............

As for being fitter than Calzaghe, there have never been any signs of Calzaghe lacking fitness, that is absolute rot! Calzaghe's engine is second to none in the division.

More durable? Based on what precisely, what big punchers has Kessler faced?

More assertive? Bollocks mate, Kessler is much more tentative and methodical than Calzaghe who in big fights is hyper aggressive, and one of the fastest starters in the sport.

Yes, Joe is up against it, but then so is Kessler, this is an even money fight more or less.

I said Kessler is fitter, more assertive, more durable etc etc than Veit. Twisted Trandistor says Kessler is like Veit etc etc, so I'm commenting on his comparison.

Anyway, I got on the Kessler bandwagon early - in early 2005 - and you know what, I always used to say Lacy was a bag of shit till he beat Reid. An absolute useless lump who struggled to beat Omar Sheika, couldn't KO a guy that fernando Vargas stopped (name escapes me) and looked like hell vs Richard Grant, not to mention having a clueless look on his face in most fights and throwing one of the most ridicuous "blows" I've ever seen, a flying headbutt on Vitali Tsypko.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 23 Aug 2007, 19:06

Autobarn wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:How Is It better for boxing? It's good for boxing that the two best 12 stone fighters are facing each other.

Right hands land on Joe but you need more than that to beat him.

Kessler's simular to guys like Veit except quicker and better footwork.

Joe Is different from his past fights, he Improved with experience.

He looked horrible since Lacy? He easily outclassed Manfredo and Bika made Bute look shite too, the same Bute you and most were hyping up. Bika was a dirty spoiler and Joe still won.

No Kessler should watch recent fights of Joe as he's a different fighter from those fights. The right hand still lands but they still don't do enough to harm Joe.

Kessler wont be able to just step In and out jabbing, then repeat with a combo or single Jab and only defending by covering up.

Calzaghe has an Iron chin to stand up to the odd right that lands.
Bute will be IBF champion soon and yes, Bika made him look bad too but Bute is a guy whose trainer acknowledged "is not top notch yet...is still learning" while Calzaghe's a 10 year world title veteran and should have done better.

Cazlaghe's not different. The Lacy fight doesn't make him different but just showed what he's been holding back. His hands are getting worst and he's going to lose.

If Kessler wins it's better because he'll go and grab the big fights. Kessler is stronger, fitter, tougher, has better timing, accuracy and is more assertive and durable and altogether 70% better than Veit.

Joe is really up against it this time. He's fighting a guy who isn't two years past his best. Who hasn't had the disappointment of defeat. Who isn't a guy that has to make do with shit money and come over as the opponent. Who's had competitive rounds. Who has two good arms (Woodhall landed better punches tha anyone on Joe yet his right arm was badly injured). Who dominates most of his own fights at world level.

You should be worried.

Joe had the disappointment of defeat as an amateur though.

Kessler fought shot fighters like Veit too as Kessler fought Lucas and got credit for It while Veit fought a shot Brewer and didn't.

You guys were making excuses for Lacy's struggle against Sheika when I brought that up yet now most of you change once Joe beats the shit out of him.

How has Kessler shown to be more durable than Veit? Andrade hasn't beaten anyone of note except for a combacking Otis Grant, Beyer didn't come to win(his best win), Mundine was claimed to be timid by you and Mundine was nothing but a guy who chased WBA paper belts, Lucas was shot.

Still not convinced he will troubled Joe.

As for Bika whats wrong with a bad night? He still won, when he kept to his skills rather than outfight him, Joe outclassed him still

Why Isn't Joe a different fighter? People change over time with experience naturally. He's learned about his body more, stepped up or down to an opponents level and so on.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 03:58

Andrade would have troubled Joe. You don't see him go near a challenger like that. Veit would have folded by the halfway vs Andrade.

If you're saying all this about Kessler's opposition, do you not see the irony that 90% of Joe's good opponents had already tasted defeat and/or lost their titles and were a year or two past their primes, and were forced to travel for what is most likely moderate money (notice how Joe never fought an attraction between Eubank and Lacy).

Joe's career has been awful for a guy with so much talent and the best thing that can happen is for Kessler to end it as soon as possible. Kessler is a fighter who's impressed since winning the WBA version in late 2004, has garnered international respect for beating Lucas (Canada), Mundine (IN Australia), Beyer (Germany) and Andrade (Mex/USA on HBO).

He got respect for his fine boxing skills from the different countries and 3 years in his reign Kessler was already on HBO. After the Robin Reid fight, Calzaghe and Warren were told that Joe wasn't ready for the big stages; and I hear it was a similar case after Starie.

Joe was in hiding the first 8 years of his title reign. And then they have the bollocks to say Roy Jones ducked them.

Kessler's coming to get him.

I don't think Joe would have gone to Denmark. I think they're fibbing. I'll bet Warren knew that HBO weren't going to give the fight the cash injection that would allow bot men to get the purses they wanted. Palle obviously didn't know & he made a offer he couldnae back up. Props to Warren for working with Setanta though.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 05:30

Andrade never touched real world class and was easily outclassed when he did.

I do see that some of Joe's opposition have tasted what you mention, I never disagree about some of his poor challenges.

Why doe Kessler gain respect for fighting shot fighters but Joe doesn't when he does It? Do we all have double standards? Boxing skills or not shouldn't he be judged as harshly as Joe for fighting shot fighters despite Joe's talent?

Roy Jones was too reliant on his reflexes, he's one of few you could reasonably favour over Joe. Strange though that most people favour Roy over atg's yet his opposition at times was supposed to be poor too and was accused of ducking DM and got away with It, but wouldn't favour Calzaghe over no atg's because of his opp.

Going to Denmark doesn't matter as long as they fight.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 06:08

Can't see why you think Kessler is not much above the level of Veit. I think you will change your mind in November!

I'll say this now and I'll say it again. Andrade is as dangerous a fight as Lacy. Yes Lacy did more. ie winning the IBF title. But if he'd fought Calzaghe for his 1st title as Andrade fought Kessler for his 1st title shot, Lacy and Andrade would be in the same boat. i.e. 12 points down after 12 rounds and "never had a world class win".

Lucas was past his best. But he was a decent challenge for a rookie champion.

Kessler's best wins are equal to Calzaghe's yet Kessler fought only one guy who was past it (Lucas) whereas Calzaghe fought only one guy who was in his prime (Lacy).

Kessler's coming to get him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 06:29

My mind will be In disbelief when Calzaghe delivers another arse whuppin.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 07:12

It can't be taken for granted that he'll win just because he beat Lacy. I suspect Calzaghe may be doing this, if it was him who really said some of the stuff coming from these press releases. All that rubbish about 2000 punches.

If I wanted him to win I would worry about these comments.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 24 Aug 2007, 07:41

I wouldn't take those comments too seriously, it's just a bit of fun from Joe I think.

He took Lacy very seriously, and in fact was dubious about fighting him at all until his dad kicked him up the arse.

Calzaghe will be focussed for this one, motivated, and in shape. His father will send him in there with a definite game plan as well.

This is going to be a hard fight alright, Joe's hands are the biggest worry from his point of view, as I don't see Kessler folding or becoming discouraged too easily without Calzaghe laying a lot of shots on him.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 07:59

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I wouldn't take those comments too seriously, it's just a bit of fun from Joe I think.

He took Lacy very seriously, and in fact was dubious about fighting him at all until his dad kicked him up the arse.

Calzaghe will be focussed for this one, motivated, and in shape. His father will send him in there with a definite game plan as well.

This is going to be a hard fight alright, Joe's hands are the biggest worry from his point of view, as I don't see Kessler folding or becoming discouraged too easily without Calzaghe laying a lot of shots on him.

absolutely. Andrade was flinging himself at Kessler and Kessler always came back with head spinning shots. Kessler is tough and it may be bad news for Joe that he can cope under pressure. This was the big question mark about Kessler and he passed the test.

If Joe's hands go it's bye-bye Calzaghe.

I see the fight as being very fierce, very close and maybe one of the best fights of recent memory. I also think that regardless of who wins (I believe Kessler), it will take more out of Joe and that Kessler will win a rematch by KO should they ever have one.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:14

Twisted Transistor wrote:How Is It better for boxing? It's good for boxing that the two best 12 stone fighters are facing each other.

Right hands land on Joe but you need more than that to beat him.

Kessler's simular to guys like Veit except quicker and better footwork.

Joe Is different from his past fights, he Improved with experience.

He looked horrible since Lacy? He easily outclassed Manfredo and Bika made Bute look shite too, the same Bute you and most were hyping up. Bika was a dirty spoiler and Joe still won.

No Kessler should watch recent fights of Joe as he's a different fighter from those fights. The right hand still lands but they still don't do enough to harm Joe.

Kessler wont be able to just step In and out jabbing, then repeat with a combo or single Jab and only defending by covering up.

Calzaghe has an Iron chin to stand up to the odd right that lands.

You talking bullshit about a fighter you know to little about, can come back to haunt you

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:16

How do I know little?

I'm only going off fights I've seen of Kessler.

It's not bullshit when I say Calzaghe Is the best boxer In the world though too. Mayweather Is great but he only boxes, Joe Boxes and fights. Joe doesn't struggle with past their prime fighters like Floyd too.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:24

Joe could have been great for boxing. With his high energy style, he was a world away from the Lennox Lewis who could be a lazy languid lummox when he wasn't blasting out big bad guys. I thought it was all going to be different post Lacy. But it wasn't. If he beats Kessler it's going to be the same rigmarole! Kessler must win.

Let's look at it this way.

Who is more likely to fight Froch, Bute, Inkin, Pascal, Allan Green, Miranda, Pavlik, Taylor, Mundine?

Calzaghe? Or Kessler?

That settles it. Kessler on points.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:34

Well he has been different post Lacy.

Manfredo and Bika ain't great and they were purely just exposure fights but he Is taking on Kessler like we wanted.

I would like him to fight Froch only to give Froch the boxing lesson he deserves.

Miranda's overrated, he couldn't KO Pavlik or Abraham so he lost cause he couldn't bully better and bigger fighters. Calzaghe would destroy Miranda, before Eastman he only fought journeymen.

Pavlik looks like a brawler to me but only seen the Miranda fight.

Spinks should of got the win against Taylor and after watching that I couldn't believe how anyone thinks he has a chance against Joe. He has good straights but he looked lethargic and not willing to win. Didn't look anything else to me.

Doesn't Mundine have an eye problem to deal with and If Joe fights him and wins will people use the eye excuse?

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:34

Twisted Transistor wrote:Joe doesn't struggle with past their prime fighters like Floyd too.

That's because he's made a career out of it!

Seriously, calling Joe the best boxer in the world is ridiculous. if he'd have proved himself against the top fighters instead of pissing about fighting no marks, then maybe your claim could stand.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:38

Kevo wrote:
Twisted Transistor wrote:Joe doesn't struggle with past their prime fighters like Floyd too.
That's because he's made a career out of it!

Seriously, calling Joe the best boxer in the world is ridiculous. if he'd have proved himself against the top fighters instead of pissing about fighting no marks, then maybe your claim could stand.

How can Floyd be p4p No 1 over opponents other than a past It De La Hoya though?

Seems like Floyd got there on talent so why wouldn't my claim stand?

Roy only fought Toney and a past his prime McCallum how did he get P4p no 1?

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 24 Aug 2007, 14:54

Mayweather is no1 as he has remained unbeaten while rising through the weight classes. Can Joe say the same?
Floyd had a bit of a barren spell in his Light welter and early Welter days, but recent wins over Judah and De la Hoya have cemented his place at the top.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 15:20

So belt chasing warrants his spot? Why can;t they dominate a division and build a legacy rather than money chasing.

Judah just lost to Baldomir and the IBF wrongly let Judah keep their belt and DLH hadn't fought anyone other than a corpse(Mayorga) for over 2 years.

jangeorg · Post by **jangeorg** » 24 Aug 2007, 16:02

Max Molyneux wrote:How do I know little?

I'm only going off fights I've seen of Kessler.

It's not bullshit when I say Calzaghe Is the best boxer In the world though too.

I don`t think you name are Twisted Transistor,read the post before you reply,shithead

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 24 Aug 2007, 16:19

Max Molyneux wrote:Well he has been different post Lacy.

Manfredo and Bika ain't great and they were purely just exposure fights but he Is taking on Kessler like we wanted.

I would like him to fight Froch only to give Froch the boxing lesson he deserves.

Miranda's overrated, he couldn't KO Pavlik or Abraham so he lost cause he couldn't bully better and bigger fighters. Calzaghe would destroy Miranda, before Eastman he only fought journeymen.

Pavlik looks like a brawler to me but only seen the Miranda fight.

Spinks should of got the win against Taylor and after watching that I couldn't believe how anyone thinks he has a chance against Joe. He has good straights but he looked lethargic and not willing to win. Didn't look anything else to me.

Doesn't Mundine have an eye problem to deal with and If Joe fights him and wins will people use the eye excuse?

the point is that they're all either promising, young, dangerous or world class fighters. and that Calzaghe would pull someone out of the top 15 or 20 instead of them if he went according to form.

It's irrelevent. Calzaghe is going to be a beaten man.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 20:56

jangeorg wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:How do I know little?

I'm only going off fights I've seen of Kessler.

It's not bullshit when I say Calzaghe Is the best boxer In the world though too.

I don`t think you name are Twisted Transistor,read the post before you reply,shithead

Go back to ESB posting as the-best with that senseless drivel retard. You fit In with most of the Kessler fans on there.

I read your post and you wrongly assumed I know little of Kessler. I only post opinions from fights I've seen of his.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 24 Aug 2007, 20:58

Autobarn wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Well he has been different post Lacy.

Manfredo and Bika ain't great and they were purely just exposure fights but he Is taking on Kessler like we wanted.

I would like him to fight Froch only to give Froch the boxing lesson he deserves.

Miranda's overrated, he couldn't KO Pavlik or Abraham so he lost cause he couldn't bully better and bigger fighters. Calzaghe would destroy Miranda, before Eastman he only fought journeymen.

Pavlik looks like a brawler to me but only seen the Miranda fight.

Spinks should of got the win against Taylor and after watching that I couldn't believe how anyone thinks he has a chance against Joe. He has good straights but he looked lethargic and not willing to win. Didn't look anything else to me.

Doesn't Mundine have an eye problem to deal with and If Joe fights him and wins will people use the eye excuse?
the point is that they're all either promising, young, dangerous or world class fighters. and that Calzaghe would pull someone out of the top 15 or 20 instead of them if he went according to form.

It's irrelevent. Calzaghe is going to be a beaten man.

Bute looks promising and Froch might become fringe world class.

Not sold on Miranda, Pavlik and Taylor though.

Hopefully Mundine's eye gets better.

Kessler's still going to be made sweet luv to though.