BoxRec

This is a sanctuary for people to say anything they want about boxing matters. As long as they follow the rules of civility...which most of us seem to manage to do.

One thing about granberry is most all of his negative bellowing is reserved for people's opinions...not about them personally. Something that has not escaped my notice....and he even requests people to speak to things they DO know about....for example he always asks me about things he feels I'm truly an expert on......like could Joe Frazier sing or not.

So he is somewhat proactive, and not always negative and even asks others to participate. Overall just what you want in a contributor.

He is also currently working hard on his thesis regarding the Ali-Terrell fight and will be presenting it around the turn of the decade.

Granberry,

Once again My Hero Leonard ?

Ah ok...

Well a 12 round fight was atleast still Title fight territory. And as you are no doubt aware by 1987, the 15 rounders were dying out and this was most likely more to do with peoples perceptions and sanctioning bodies in light of late round deaths during the early 1980s that occured in the 14th and 15th rounds.

In defence of Leonard when he 'retired' on and off he never held onto the title, sure he did land a title shot early on his come back. So, this is common.

Mate, defend Dempsey's lay off and how he is seldom criticised for the opponents he faced and how his two 10 round title fights against Tunney have never seen 10 rounders scheduled before or since.

My hero Leonard ? Yes...thats right I have indicated that I worship all Dundee trained fighters on my posts ever so clearly. It seems to me you are obsessed with hating these guys with a perverted passion.

Kym

I agree with Irene, and I suppose granberry, oddly enough, on this one. I think Dempsey would have a good chance of stopping Joe early. If they make it to the 5th then Frazier would win.

Dempsey was lucky that the Tunney fights, especially the first fight, were 10 rounds. Dempsey, as mentioned earlier, was coming off a three year layoff going into the first fight, but he was also sick for the fight to my understanding. Tunney might well have knocked him out. But it wasn't unusual back then for Heavyweight champions to have such long layoffs. Willard hadn't defended his title in three years when he fought Dempsey. Braddock didn't defend his title for two years after winning it.

As for Leonard-Hagler, to my understanding Leonard did ask for it to be 12 rounds. Hagler wanted 15, but he went along with most of Ray's demands.

Also, now that I think of it, Jack Johnson fought a few ten rounders for the title. I checked Willard's record, and his fight with Moran for the title was a ten rounder. So again, not too unusual for the time.

Ten round title fights, long lay off's lasting anywhere from over a year to 3 years, fighting un-ranked men for the title, defending it againts men from lower weight classes.

No wonder modern boxers just dont have the talent and class to mix it with them old style classical heroes.

What on earth was Leonard thinking ? Doesn't he know that he could only expect such concessions if the fight was filmed in black and white. How dare he.

Kym

Do I detect a note of sarcasm...?

Dempsey didn't do anything out of the ordinary for his time, and Leonard did make demands on Hagler. I wouldn't fault Leonard for this, as granberry has, but we do know that he did make demands for the fight.

Fighting unranked fighters and fighters from lower weight classes... don't most fighters do that?

Lets try to be a little more fact based, shall we?

indeed :)