BoxRec

The fight was supposed to happen in 1981.
Cooney would of won by early ko.No doubt in my mind.Weaver was a slow starter.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I think this was rumored for that defunct Smith super card, but it's been a long time.

Cooney-Norton was on the Harold Smith super card, just scheduled a few months earlier than it actually happened. But Cooney-Weaver was sure talked about. Cooney was WBA #1 contender way before he was #1 WBC, IIRC.

sweetsci wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I think this was rumored for that defunct Smith super card, but it's been a long time.

Cooney-Norton was on the Harold Smith super card, just scheduled a few months earlier than it actually happened. But Cooney-Weaver was sure talked about. Cooney was WBA #1 contender way before he was #1 WBC, IIRC.

Yeah I remember reading something about Bob Arum convincing the WBA to permit Weaver to defend against Tillis who was around #4 at the time rather than Cooney who was #1. That fight would have made both of them millions and may have resulted in Gerry getting a belt. Looking at how fast Dokes got Weaver in trouble in their first fight, I think Cooney could have capitalized on such a scenario better and wouldn't need a premature referee intervention the way that Dokes did.

In James'Quick"Tillis's autobiography.
He mentions that Cooney's promoters offered him One Million Dollars
to'step aside' so that Cooney could fight Weaver for the WBA title.
Tillis declined the offer and instead wanted to fight for the title
(but by the way he did fight Weaver for the title,you could have fooled me).

sweetsci wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I think this was rumored for that defunct Smith super card, but it's been a long time.

Cooney-Norton was on the Harold Smith super card, just scheduled a few months earlier than it actually happened. But Cooney-Weaver was sure talked about. Cooney was WBA #1 contender way before he was #1 WBC, IIRC.

Harold Smith,now their was a boxers dream promoter.
He sure promoted a lot of great fights(while he lasted in the business anyway).

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

sweetsci wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I think this was rumored for that defunct Smith super card, but it's been a long time.

Cooney-Norton was on the Harold Smith super card, just scheduled a few months earlier than it actually happened. But Cooney-Weaver was sure talked about. Cooney was WBA #1 contender way before he was #1 WBC, IIRC.

Yeah I remember reading something about Bob Arum convincing the WBA to permit Weaver to defend against Tillis who was around #4 at the time rather than Cooney who was #1. That fight would have made both of them millions and may have resulted in Gerry getting a belt. Looking at how fast Dokes got Weaver in trouble in their first fight, I think Cooney could have capitalized on such a scenario better and wouldn't need a premature referee intervention the way that Dokes did.

Tillis was the #3 contender.Behind #1 Cooney and # 2 Leon Spinks

and from what I read/heard before somewhere(perhaps here)
if Weaver refused to defend the WBA title against Tillis,Weaver would have been stripped
and it would have been Tillis vs Greg Page for the vacant WBA heavyweight title.

Caractacus wrote:and from what I read/heard before somewhere(perhaps here)
if Weaver refused to defend the WBA title against Tillis,Weaver would have been stripped
and it would have been Tillis vs Greg Page for the vacant WBA heavyweight title.

Yeah,I read that in a newspaper article this morning while researching this topic.Or at least
refreshing my memory on this topic.
Funny thing about Tillis vs Page is Tillis was rated 3rd and Page was rated 6th.
Why would they fight for the vacant title?

tiny_acres wrote: Funny thing about Tillis vs Page is Tillis was rated 3rd and Page was rated 6th.
Why would they fight for the vacant title?

I was too young and not following boxing at the time. But from what I have repeatedly heard and read over the last 25 years there was a lot of corruption in the 80's, particularly in the promotion of heavyweights. Bob Arum had Weaver in his stable while Don King had Holmes in his. They played contenders and alphabet champions like they were chess pawns. Gerry Cooney was the rightful man lined up for the WBA title weather it be directly against Weaver or in a battle over it vacantly. I don't think Arum wanted Weaver in the ring with Cooney while meanwhile Don King drooled over the money he'd make putting him in with Holmes.

tiny_acres wrote:

Caractacus wrote:and from what I read/heard before somewhere(perhaps here)
if Weaver refused to defend the WBA title against Tillis,Weaver would have been stripped
and it would have been Tillis vs Greg Page for the vacant WBA heavyweight title.

Yeah,I read that in a newspaper article this morning while researching this topic.Or at least
refreshing my memory on this topic.
Funny thing about Tillis vs Page is Tillis was rated 3rd and Page was rated 6th.
Why would they fight for the vacant title?

Page, at the time all of this was going on, by Mid-1981, #3 by the WBA.He wasn't Don King's boy yet.

Nile4000 wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:

Caractacus wrote:and from what I read/heard before somewhere(perhaps here)
if Weaver refused to defend the WBA title against Tillis,Weaver would have been stripped
and it would have been Tillis vs Greg Page for the vacant WBA heavyweight title.

Yeah,I read that in a newspaper article this morning while researching this topic.Or at least
refreshing my memory on this topic.
Funny thing about Tillis vs Page is Tillis was rated 3rd and Page was rated 6th.
Why would they fight for the vacant title?

Page, at the time all of this was going on, by Mid-1981, #3 by the WBA.He wasn't Don King's boy yet.

I will correct my Page as #6 HE WAS IN FACT NUMBER 4
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/25/sport ... title.html

Caractacus wrote:and from what I read/heard before somewhere(perhaps here)
if Weaver refused to defend the WBA title against Tillis,Weaver would have been stripped
and it would have been Tillis vs Greg Page for the vacant WBA heavyweight title.

It was a poster here back a few years ago,that said that.
I was never able to confirm it.

I do remember reading however that Michael Dokes told Don King back in 1980
that he wanted to fight'the Best out there'
He was told it was Gerry Cooney.
Don King was going to match Dokes
with Cooney on the Larry Holmes vs Muhammad Ali
title fight,but it never happened.

Here is link to a newspaper article from July.2.1981 that may explain a lot of things(maybe).


http://www.news.google.com/newspapers?n ... 00,1469611

Caractacus wrote: Don King was going to match Dokes
with Cooney

That would have been the perfect fight to gauge how good Cooney actually was and the sort that people needed to see.

Dokes would've beaten Cooney, with possibly a couple of scary moments.

Nile4000 wrote:Dokes would've beaten Cooney, with possibly a couple of scary moments.

and I say,no way!
a more likely scenario would have been,
Cooney would still have been fresh from not being inactive like he was in 1981.
Dokes would have came out banging,but once he tasted Cooney's vaulted power
especially vicious rights and lefts to his thorax,
he would have paniced and backed up on the ropes and Cooney would have mercifully finished him off in the first round.

Caractacus wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:Dokes would've beaten Cooney, with possibly a couple of scary moments.

and I say,no way!
a more likely scenario would have been,
Cooney would still have been fresh from not being inactive like he was in 1981.
Dokes would have came out banging,but once he tasted Cooney's vaulted power
especially vicious rights and lefts to his thorax,
he would have paniced and backed up on the ropes and Cooney would have mercifully finished him off in the first round.

Only thing is, it wouldn't get that far. Dokes is far tougher than Cooney is, and though possibly stunned by the left hook, is enough of a boxer to outfinesse Cooney, stopping him no later that the seventh.

Nile4000 wrote:

Caractacus wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:Dokes would've beaten Cooney, with possibly a couple of scary moments.

and I say,no way!
a more likely scenario would have been,
Cooney would still have been fresh from not being inactive like he was in 1981.
Dokes would have came out banging,but once he tasted Cooney's vaulted power
especially vicious rights and lefts to his thorax,
he would have paniced and backed up on the ropes and Cooney would have mercifully finished him off in the first round.

Only thing is, it wouldn't get that far. Dokes is far tougher than Cooney is, and though possibly stunned by the left hook, is enough of a boxer to outfinesse Cooney, stopping him no later that the seventh.

I don't know. The early rendition of Dokes didn't have much power. It wasn't until his comeback in the late 80's when he really started setting down on his punches. He barely got past Ocasio and Tex Cobb. Some felt the Weaver draw should have gone in favor of hurcules. Cooney was a true contender from late 1979 to mid 1981 before the bouts of inactivity started occurring. I think his early round tenacity and punching power could have given Dokes fits perhaps even done him in. Sure Michael was a good boxer with fast hands. But Holmes even better and Gerry gave him 13 hard rounds despite only having seen 54 seconds of boxing action in two years.

Are we assuming that both Dokes and Cooney may have been using cocaine
sometime around this time?(late 1981)
Dokes had said that he started dabbling with cocaine at age 15 y.
Cooney once said he was introduced to cocaine by some loose woman
the night of the Cooney-Norton victory party.
BTW if Dokes could knock down Mike Weaver on the seat of his pants
with a fast left hook,imagine if Gerry Cooney would have landed his left
on Weaver like that in the first round.
Cooney would have beatin Weaver too for the title.

Caractacus wrote:Are we assuming that both Dokes and Cooney may have been using cocaine
sometime around this time?(late 1981)
Dokes had said that he started dabbling with cocaine at age 15 y.
Cooney once said he was introduced to cocaine by some loose woman
the night of the Cooney-Norton victory party.
BTW if Dokes could knock down Mike Weaver on the seat of his pants
with a fast left hook,imagine if Gerry Cooney would have landed his left
on Weaver like that in the first round.
Cooney would have beatin Weaver too for the title.

Agreed. Weaver was tough but sometimes slow at getting out of the gate. And while the dokes stoppage was highly controversial one can't deny that Michael still had him in plenty of trouble. Weather or not one thinks that dokes is better than cooney, Gerry was still the more devastating puncher and faster starter. Let's also not forget that weaver was about 6'0, 205 while Gerry was probably 6'7", 225. Size isn't everything of course but that's still a hell of an advantage. I don't know all the details about the history with the WBA allowing weaver to defend against tillis in place of cooney. But I think bob arum might have been protecting the best horse In his stable, possibly hoping for a Holmes rematch at some point.

Gerry was lucky to get to 13 rounds with Larry.Larry was carrying him.

Nile4000 wrote:Gerry was lucky to get to 13 rounds with Larry.Larry was carrying him.

I dont think so.
I think Gerry just before the fight he was more wanting to"Go the Distance'
with the champ just like Rocky Balboa did in the first Rocky movie.
Remember when Gerry Cooney and Slyvester Stallone appeared
on the cover of either TIME or NEWSWEEK just before the fight.
I think that may have affected Cooney subconciously.
Otherwise Cooney would have demolished Holmes.

Nile4000 wrote:Gerry was lucky to get to 13 rounds with Larry.Larry was carrying him.

Not sure about that. This was one of the biggest fights of Holmes career and he was well aware of what a big puncher was capable of. I doubt he'd take any chances just for the sake of giving the crowd a better showing or setting things up for a rematch.

..and dont forget one of Holmes cornermen had to give Holmes smelling salts inbetween one of the rounds.
You cant tell me that didnt benifit Holmes in that fight.
as matter of fact it looked like Holmes got a second wind just after it.