BoxRec

Decagon wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Ali - Liston II

Whatever you think about this fight, even if it was a fix, the whole way it ended was a farce.

You mean, the way the timekeeper made a ten-count and Liston didn't get up until after it was over, and Jersey Joe Walcott let the fight continue?

You mean the way the so-called referee never counted over Liston?

You mean the way Ali stood in the middle of the ring and never went to a corner during the "count" ?

OOPS--I forget---there NEVER WAS a count.

Poor Hexagon never heard of the Dempsey-Tunney Long-Count fight,

where the time keeper's watch read 17 seconds when Tunney got up.

Poor Hexagon is reduced to trying to sell the Lewiston fake as legitimate.

The die hard Ali salesmen like Hexagon never give up.

But they make asses of themselves trying to sell their crap.

Please excuse me if you think I'm being rude, datsue, but may I make some assumptions about you?

Are you about 6 years old & black, & have followed the game for over half a minute?

If I'm wrong then sorry, and please forgive the intrusion; I only brought it up because at times you sound a lot like a six year old.

Sorry if this seems too offensive; you just really reminded me of a six year old, was all.

The Tommy Ayers vs Luis Santana fight was stopped far too early, especially considering how much trouble Ayers was in the first round after getting dropped and pummeled along the ropes yet the referee let him continue.

Ayers came back to hurt Santana in the 4th and was landing some good punches, but Santana was clear headed and weathering the storm when suddenly the ref stepped in to stop it out of nowhere. Very bad stoppage that was... shame because it was a hell of a fight while it lasted.

If the fight was today, no one would bat an eye at the stoppage. Ali hit Lyle with about twenty, twenty five unanswered punches. If you want to say Ali and Leonard got a couple of breaks in their career, thats fine. But some of you are taking that and stretching it, trying to make their whole careers out to be one big break. Ali-Lyle and Leonard-Hearns I are not bad stoppages, and no one was protecting anything but Ron Lyle and Thomas Hearns when those fights were stopped.

And Lyle was winning the fight, but saying he won every round is another nice little piece of bullshit.

Datsue wrote:Please excuse me if you think I'm being rude, mr granberry, but may I make some assumptions about you?

Are you about seventy-ish & white, & have followed the game for over half a century?

If I'm wrong then sorry, and please forgive the intrusion; I only brought it up because at times you sound a lot like my dad & several of his friends of that generation. They have the same bugbears about certain guys/fights.

Sorry if this seems too offensive; you just really reminded me of my old man, was all.

AH, DATSUE MY DEAR FELLOW....I DO HOPE YOU ARE NOT USING GRANBERRY AS YARDSTICK BY WHICH TO JUDGE ALL SEVENTY-ISH WHITE GUYS WHO HAVE FOLLOWED BOXING FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY. I HAVE IT ON EXCELLENT AUTHORITY THAT OTHERS IN THIS CATEGORY ARE FAIR MINDED, KNOW THEIR BOXING AND ARE EXCELLENT WRITERS AND DO NOT DEAL IN PERSONAL INVECTIVE.....WELL, NOT MUCH ANYWAY.

Jaclem wrote:

Datsue wrote:Please excuse me if you think I'm being rude, mr granberry, but may I make some assumptions about you?

Are you about seventy-ish & white, & have followed the game for over half a century?

If I'm wrong then sorry, and please forgive the intrusion; I only brought it up because at times you sound a lot like my dad & several of his friends of that generation. They have the same bugbears about certain guys/fights.

Sorry if this seems too offensive; you just really reminded me of my old man, was all.

AH, DATSUE MY DEAR FELLOW....I DO HOPE YOU ARE NOT USING GRANBERRY AS YARDSTICK BY WHICH TO JUDGE ALL SEVENTY-ISH WHITE GUYS WHO HAVE FOLLOWED BOXING FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY. I HAVE IT ON EXCELLENT AUTHORITY THAT OTHERS IN THIS CATEGORY ARE FAIR MINDED, KNOW THEIR BOXING AND ARE EXCELLENT WRITERS AND DO NOT DEAL IN PERSONAL INVECTIVE.....WELL, NOT MUCH ANYWAY.

Nah sorry, not at all Jaclem, wasn't my intention. Granberry just reminds me of some bigoted, bitter, half-lucid old men I grew up around, whose intelligence and actual knowledge is forever locked away behind a veil of conspiracy, racism, and paranoid obfuscation. Like my old man, for instance.

I should never have asked, really. Wasn't trying to stereotype anyone; just read a lot of his posts one night and thought: "My god! That could be my Uncle Bill typing that! (if he hadn't been dead sixteen years)"

That's what posting drunk'll do. Apologies all...

Decagon wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Ali - Liston II

Whatever you think about this fight, even if it was a fix, the whole way it ended was a farce.

You mean, the way the timekeeper made a ten-count and Liston didn't get up until after it was over, and Jersey Joe Walcott let the fight continue?

Granberry beat me to it.

Surely Ali should have been made to go to a neutral corner or the fight decalred a NC.

I used to think that Walcott and Fleischer messed the fight up. Liston got dropped, Ali ranted over him, Liston was confused, Walcott confused and the whole thing was just part miscommunication and part bad handling by the ref.

The thing is though that Ali's reaction at Liston going down makes it seem like Ali thought Liston was faking it. If there was a fix or a dive, it wouldn't appear that Ali was in on it.

..datsue...hey buddy...no problem. i grew up being surrounded by just the type you mentioned and i know exactly what you mean. in fact, my guesses about terap are the same as yours.

Jaclem wrote:..datsue...hey buddy...no problem. i grew up being surrounded by just the type you mentioned and i know exactly what you mean. in fact, my guesses about terap are the same as yours.

Yeah, I agree.

Now datsue has pointed it out, I remember that's where I first heard that simplistic bigoted rubbish that granberry spouts.

From my old man and others of his era.

I didn't know anything about boxing as a 10 year old and I now know my old man knew nothing about it as a 30 year old. But it didn't stop him going on about what a twat that " Cassius Clay" was (never Ali, always Clay) and how his fights were all fixed and he wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds against Joe Louis.

At least my old man has mellowed a bit in his old age...

..collins....i see you joined the forum on may 6..which is my birthday. different year though...and different century...

Decagon wrote:

granberry wrote:You mean the way the so-called referee never counted over Liston?

You mean the way Ali stood in the middle of the ring and never went to a corner during the "count" ?

OOPS--I forget---there NEVER WAS a count.

Poor Hexagon never heard of the Dempsey-Tunney Long-Count fight,

where the time keeper's watch read 17 seconds when Tunney got up.

Poor Hexagon is reduced to trying to sell the Lewiston fake as legitimate.

The die hard Ali salesmen like Hexagon never give up.

But they make asses of themselves trying to sell their crap.

Um, the timekeeper did the knockdown seconds.

The timekeeper's watch in the Long Count fight read 17 seconds when Tunney got up.

Poor Decagon doesn't have a clue.

The same rules didn't apply when Ali was fighting.

LOL

But poor decagon can't comprehend that.