BoxRec

markl wrote:Burnett completely dominated Spinks.

The decision was like 115-113, 117-111, 116-112

When I heard them I couldn't believe anyone had Spinks that close and it went his way.

Burnett always got robbed

He was only a lightheavyweight and he knocked down Spinks, who had beaten the clueless' candidate for 'greatest of all time' [Ali}

Ali fought Spinks a total of THIRTY ROUNDS and never scored a knockdown against Spinks.

Lightheavyweight Jesse Burnett knocked Spinks down.

Floyd Patterson-Jimmy Ellis.

Angelo Dundee brought his own referee, Harold Valan, who had the only vote.

After the farce where Dundee's stooge 'referee' Valan gave Ellis the "win"
after Patterson beat the living hell out of him,

the Swedish paper headlines read

"STILL ONLY A SPARRING PARTNER"

(referring to the time Ellis spent as sparring partner for Ali).

Willie Ritchie-Freddie Welsh

Ali-Jimmy Young

Jose Torres-Eddie Cotton


Cotton won every round.

Other than the Ali-Young fight,

the Torres-Cotten farce is the biggest joke of a decision I have ever seen.

Leonard-Hagler, of course.

Ali-Doug Jones

Ali Norton .

Remember,

if you are Ali or S. Ray Leonard

you can run backwards and slap like a girl once in a while

and you will be awarded the "win"

and the title of "greatest of all time."

That's a lot of posts granberry. You must have put a lot of thought into it...

Ali lost to Young, but I find it ironic that you say Ali should have lost for running backwards when that's exactly what Young did against Ali. If Ali ducked his head under the ropes in an effort to avoid punches you would have called for a disqualification and for Ali's purse to have been withheld.

Anyone who says Ali lost to Doug Jones has no credibility as far as judging a fight is concerned. Anyone who claims Jones won six rounds is a liar with an agenda.

I Feel Fine wrote: Anyone who says Ali lost to Doug Jones has no credibility as far as judging a fight is concerned. Anyone who claims Jones won six rounds is a liar with an agenda.

Worth repeating.

granberry wrote:

markl wrote:Burnett completely dominated Spinks.

The decision was like 115-113, 117-111, 116-112

When I heard them I couldn't believe anyone had Spinks that close and it went his way.

Burnett always got robbed

He was only a lightheavyweight and he knocked down Spinks, who had beaten the clueless' candidate for 'greatest of all time' [Ali}

Ali fought Spinks a total of THIRTY ROUNDS and never scored a knockdown against Spinks.

Lightheavyweight Jesse Burnett knocked Spinks down.

Stop this "ganging up" on grandaddy. He's always worth a read.


OK I'll contribute something I truly have first hand knowledge of. I would probably agree that Spinks put in a poor "winning" effort with Burnett...AND I know why. I was working at Club Mali Kai in St Louis in the fall of 82 and Leon dropped in a few times to our little patch of heaven...and it was VERY obvious that he was having the "recreational" time of his life. Dan Dierdorf was also around this watering hole at the time as I recall and called our attention to it in at least one conversation.

. It was pretty obvious that the only "sparring" or "working out" Leon was doing at that time was with wine, women, and song. Not to mention other "recreational" diversions. A trip to East St Louis on my part revealed the same "party animal" hard at work.

So his work ethic at the time was "unusual" to say the least. Not sure he needed a lot of help in those days to find the canvas. But Burnett was happy to oblige.

There was a time that Leon did work hard and focused and was showing promise. But it didn't last long once the money arrived.

granberry sometimes it's good to know..."the rest of the story". What radio personality used to use that line? I know it wasn't Jaclem.

...no, it wasn't me....it was bill stern...paul harvey has picked it up or does something similar..not sure what...but it was orginally associated with stern. stern' stories, by the way, were of the tall variety...

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote:

markl wrote:Burnett completely dominated Spinks.

The decision was like 115-113, 117-111, 116-112

When I heard them I couldn't believe anyone had Spinks that close and it went his way.

Burnett always got robbed

He was only a lightheavyweight and he knocked down Spinks, who had beaten the clueless' candidate for 'greatest of all time' [Ali}

Ali fought Spinks a total of THIRTY ROUNDS and never scored a knockdown against Spinks.

Lightheavyweight Jesse Burnett knocked Spinks down.

Stop this "ganging up" on grandaddy. He's always worth a read.


OK I'll contribute something I truly have first hand knowledge of. I would probably agree that Spinks put in a poor "winning" effort with Burnett...AND I know why. I was working at Club Mali Kai in St Louis in the fall of 82 and Leon dropped in a few times to our little patch of heaven...and it was VERY obvious that he was having the "recreational" time of his life. Dan Dierdorf was also around this watering hole at the time as I recall and called our attention to it in at least one conversation.

. It was pretty obvious that the only "sparring" or "working out" Leon was doing at that time was with wine, women, and song. Not to mention other "recreational" diversions. A trip to East St Louis on my part revealed the same "party animal" hard at work.

So his work ethic at the time was "unusual" to say the least. Not sure he needed a lot of help in those days to find the canvas. But Burnett was happy to oblige.

There was a time that Leon did work hard and focused and was showing promise. But it didn't last long once the money arrived.

granberry sometimes it's good to know..."the rest of the story". What radio personality used to use that line? I know it wasn't Jaclem.

Leon Spinks took cocaine on the day he fought Ali the 2nd time.

Spinks LEFT FOR THE RING WITHOUT HIS LOW BLOW PROTECTOR.

He had to return to the dressing room area and borrow a sweaty one from Mike Rossman, who had just fought.

Spinks' cornerman Georgie Benton walked out of the corner and the arena after the 6th round.

And the Ali worshippers quiver with excitement at their hero's "win" over the novice Spinks in that "fight."

thunderfromdownunder wrote:ben rabah v juan urango, urango won two rounds maybe

I had Ben Rabah winning, but he killed himself by doing alot of running.

Basilio/Gavilan for Gavilan's welter title. Basilio the aggressor,had the Kid down,ref breaking the action when Carmen would move inside to attack the body. Bad decision. Probably Carmen's guys got mixed up with the wrong guys in Chicago. Carmen never liked to fight there.

dempseyfire wrote:I'd add Patterson-Maxim. Floyd lost two rounds at most . . completely outpunched and outboxed Joey.

Good one.

dagosd2000 wrote:Basilio/Gavilan for Gavilan's welter title. Basilio the aggressor,had the Kid down,ref breaking the action when Carmen would move inside to attack the body. Bad decision. Probably Carmen's guys got mixed up with the wrong guys in Chicago. Carmen never liked to fight there.

Guys,I got my facts confused. You guys must be a lot younger than me. I thought someone would catch it.

Anyway,here's the correction:Basilio challenged Gavilan for the title in Syracuse and lost a controversial decision. He had the Keeeed down and was the agressor. Carmen should have won the title that night.

Johnny Saxton won Carmen's crown in Chicago in 1956. The ref kept seperating the boys everytime Basilio got inside to work the body. Carmen didn't have much luck in Chicago. Carbo's boys got to Johnny DeJohn without Carmen's knowing. The betters cleaned up and Carmen lost his crown. Gavilan and Saxton belonged to Carbo and he wanted to get as much mileage as he could from those two. . Basilio never liked fighting in Chicago(home of the outfit)

None of the clowns posting here saw Jimmy Young give Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons for 15 rounds.

Eddie Cotton beat the living hell out of Jose Torres for 15 rounds and then they gave Torres the decision.

granberry wrote:None of the clowns posting here saw Jimmy Young give Ali a boxing lesson to end all boxing lessons for 15 rounds.

Eddie Cotton beat the living hell out of Jose Torres for 15 rounds and then they gave Torres the decision.

uh...I was a clown that saw that first one you mentioned!

granberry wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:

granberry wrote: Burnett always got robbed

He was only a lightheavyweight and he knocked down Spinks, who had beaten the clueless' candidate for 'greatest of all time' [Ali}

Ali fought Spinks a total of THIRTY ROUNDS and never scored a knockdown against Spinks.

Lightheavyweight Jesse Burnett knocked Spinks down.

Stop this "ganging up" on grandaddy. He's always worth a read.


OK I'll contribute something I truly have first hand knowledge of. I would probably agree that Spinks put in a poor "winning" effort with Burnett...AND I know why. I was working at Club Mali Kai in St Louis in the fall of 82 and Leon dropped in a few times to our little patch of heaven...and it was VERY obvious that he was having the "recreational" time of his life. Dan Dierdorf was also around this watering hole at the time as I recall and called our attention to it in at least one conversation.

. It was pretty obvious that the only "sparring" or "working out" Leon was doing at that time was with wine, women, and song. Not to mention other "recreational" diversions. A trip to East St Louis on my part revealed the same "party animal" hard at work.

So his work ethic at the time was "unusual" to say the least. Not sure he needed a lot of help in those days to find the canvas. But Burnett was happy to oblige.

There was a time that Leon did work hard and focused and was showing promise. But it didn't last long once the money arrived.

granberry sometimes it's good to know..."the rest of the story". What radio personality used to use that line? I know it wasn't Jaclem.

Leon Spinks took cocaine on the day he fought Ali the 2nd time.

Spinks LEFT FOR THE RING WITHOUT HIS LOW BLOW PROTECTOR.

He had to return to the dressing room area and borrow a sweaty one from Mike Rossman, who had just fought.

Spinks' cornerman Georgie Benton walked out of the corner and the arena after the 6th round.

And the Ali worshippers quiver with excitement at their hero's "win" over the novice Spinks in that "fight."

Bullsh*t. Bullsh*t & horse "ca ca".

Not the ridiculously unprofessional incidents surrounding the fight that you recount, those are all, in fact, true. But, I have yet to come across anyone of even the most ardent Ali admirers who considers his W15 over "Neon" Leon one of his greatest performances. Not a one of them.

I think everyone recognizes that Ali was fortunate that night that Spinks was so "out of it" that September night or he'd have likely had another tough go of it with him, despite the fact that Ali was in MUCH better shape for the rematch than he'd been for their first encounter.

By the time of Spinks II, Ali had no snap left on his punches at all. None. Other than his having an exhausted Earnie Shavers a bit wobbled in the final round of their fight a year earlier, Ali hadn't been able to hurt anyone during the course of a contest since his KO of the china chinned Richard Dunn in the spring of '76. He was so shot by then, that he was basically going through the motions.

So, it's no surprise that the slick, skilled veteran light heavy with under-rated power in Jesse Burnett was able to handle Spinks in easier fashion that did a shot Ali. Though, unlike you, I don't recall the San Diego fighter having Leon on the canvas in that fight. I remember him rocking Spinks repeatedly in the latter rounds & getting screwed in one of the worst decisions ever televised nationwide on network television.

As for other fights that were virtually non-competitive & yet the non-competitive fighter somehow still got the nod from the judges & "won", I bring to your attention the infamous ( but these days, often overlooked ) Alfredo Escalera - Tyrone Everett affair. Which IMO, makes Whitaker - Ramirez I look like a just decision in comparison.

joe kurtz wrote:
Not the ridiculously unprofessional incidents surrounding the fight that you recount, those are all, in fact, true. But, I have yet to come across anyone of even the most ardent Ali admirers who considers his W15 over "Neon" Leon one of his greatest performances. Not a one of them.

TRY Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Herbert Goldman, Michael Katz, Norman Mailer, Howard Cosell, Sports Illustrated

Though, unlike you, I don't recall the San Diego fighter having Leon on the canvas in that fight.

I do.

Guess who the referee was.

LARRY HAZZARD.

Yep.

Casamayor-Santa Cruz was the worst desicion I ever saw.

enrique wrote:Casamayor-Santa Cruz was the worst desicion I ever saw.

Telll more about it.

I never saw it.

I think the Patterson-Ellis fight was a BS decision. The whole referee being the sole judge is just spastic.

And if that is the case regarding it being Dundee's man then that just plain sux.