BoxRec

Max Molyneux wrote:It's too early for a Hatton biography anyway, the book had some good stuff In It but he used alot of his humility to fill the pages.

The best story was when he went to girls house then went out to find some rubbers and then couldn't find her house afterwards.

Sure he didn't nick that story from the sitcom 'Game On'

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:It's too early for a Hatton biography anyway, the book had some good stuff In It but he used alot of his humility to fill the pages.

The best story was when he went to girls house then went out to find some rubbers and then couldn't find her house afterwards.

Sure he didn't nick that story from the sitcom 'Game On'

Maybe.

lazy interview by Parky. he's just picking up the cheques these days.

hatton was very aware he was, largely, talking to a new audience in the non-Sky Sports watching crew. otherwise i'd doubt he'd come across so deliberate in his image.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Max Molyneux wrote:It's too early for a Hatton biography anyway, the book had some good stuff In It but he used alot of his humility to fill the pages.

The best story was when he went to girls house then went out to find some rubbers and then couldn't find her house afterwards.

Sure he didn't nick that story from the sitcom 'Game On'

It was the other way round.

Abbo wrote:lazy interview by Parky. he's just picking up the cheques these days.

hatton was very aware he was, largely, talking to a new audience in the non-Sky Sports watching crew. otherwise i'd doubt he'd come across so deliberate in his image.

Parky is shot, it's his last series and he knows it. He's a decade past his pomp, and just running on memories like an old journeyman ex-champ. He's been like a zombie for a few years now, asking asinine questions and fawning ridiculously whilst muttering into his duvet at home and saying how all the other interviewers are shit.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Abbo wrote:lazy interview by Parky. he's just picking up the cheques these days.

hatton was very aware he was, largely, talking to a new audience in the non-Sky Sports watching crew. otherwise i'd doubt he'd come across so deliberate in his image.

Parky is shot, it's his last series and he knows it. He's a decade past his pomp, and just running on memories like an old journeyman ex-champ. He's been like a zombie for a few years now, asking asinine questions and fawning ridiculously whilst muttering into his duvet at home and saying how all the other interviewers are shit.

For years now its been a steady stream of Parky Cronies.

Utterly unwatchable.

missed that , sounds like a missed a great show

what guests were on, Hatton have any banter with any of them?

Generally it's either Stephen Fry, Michael Palin or Rory Bremner........then Stephen Fry, Michael Palin... Rory Bremner etc....

I'd like to see him interview Tyson. Seriously.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Parky is shot, it's his last series and he knows it. He's a decade past his pomp, and just running on memories like an old journeyman ex-champ. He's been like a zombie for a few years now, asking asinine questions and fawning ridiculously whilst muttering into his duvet at home and saying how all the other interviewers are shit.

Yup, couldnt agree more - I stoped watching a couple of series ago although I did catch the interview with Hatton this week. more through channel flicking than anything else - It was shite btw.

I remember when it was leaked that questions are choreogrpahed with some of his guests in advance - I know this is commonplace, but Parky likes to sit on this big pedestal of his, and really he's full of shit.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:missed that , sounds like a missed a great show

what guests were on, Hatton have any banter with any of them?

Generally it's either Stephen Fry, Michael Palin or Rory Bremner........then Stephen Fry, Michael Palin... Rory Bremner etc....

The other guests were Michael Winner and Paul Anka (who wrote "My Way" and many others). Even though Ricky stayed there after his interview, there was no banter between the guests. As James and others have said, Parky's more shot than Holyfield. At least Parky's going to retire though...

parky's other guests were;

orson wells
spike milligan
john betjemen
richard burton
ava gardener
david niven
gore vidal
francis bacon
kenneth williams (of course)
sammy davis jnr
sir lawrence olivier
shelley winters
eric clapton
denis healey
peter sellars
alec guinness
kirk douglas
muhammad ali

and those are only the ones i remember. parky can be assured of a place in the HOF of talk shows

He had atleast three rematches with Ali too.

Grilling Machine wrote:I'd like to see him interview Tyson. Seriously.

Was thinking exactly the same. I think Tyson would surprise a few people, least-of-all Parkinson himself. I reckon Mike would come across quite well.

I remember when Tyson was over to watch Bruno-Tillis. Mike was interviewed by Terry Wogan & a couple of days later, Des Lynam on Grandstand. Mike was quite articulate in both interviews & really seemed to enjoy it all.

I know a guy called Butch (forget his real name, that's a nickname) who is a documentary maker for the BBC. He spent about 2 months hanging out with Tyson at one point, because he was in America for work, and knew a lot of boxing people and had the opportunity to spend a lot of time just chilling with Tyson, chatting to him about various things.

He said that Tyson was completely different from his public persona, and was a pretty quiet, softly spoken guy, who was very articulate and intelligent and was very generous with his time and loved to talk to people.

Unfortunately, his management would not allow him to do any on the record interviews with Mike, nor would they allow anything to be recorded, and refused any permission to produce any material.

In a way it makes sense. Who is going to sell more tickets, Mike "the baddest man on the planet" Tyson, or Mike "Likes to read books about ancient philosophy Tyson?"

Shelly Finkel et.al. were protecting their interests, but it is a great shame that Tyson's real persona has been buried beneath layers of posturing and bullshit for many years.

Haven't heard any more about Tyson's court case, sounded like he was going to jail before. I sincerely hope he gets off, it seems ludicrous to send him to jail for 6 years just for possession of Cocaine.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I know a guy called Butch (forget his real name, that's a nickname) who is a documentary maker for the BBC. He spent about 2 months hanging out with Tyson at one point, because he was in America for work, and knew a lot of boxing people and had the opportunity to spend a lot of time just chilling with Tyson, chatting to him about various things.

He said that Tyson was completely different from his public persona, and was a pretty quiet, softly spoken guy, who was very articulate and intelligent and was very generous with his time and loved to talk to people.

Unfortunately, his management would not allow him to do any on the record interviews with Mike, nor would they allow anything to be recorded, and refused any permission to produce any material.

In a way it makes sense. Who is going to sell more tickets, Mike "the baddest man on the planet" Tyson, or Mike "Likes to read books about ancient philosophy Tyson?"

Shelly Finkel et.al. were protecting their interests, but it is a great shame that Tyson's real persona has been buried beneath layers of posturing and bullshit for many years.

Haven't heard any more about Tyson's court case, sounded like he was going to jail before. I sincerely hope he gets off, it seems ludicrous to send him to jail for 6 years just for possession of Cocaine.

I also think it's a great shame, James! To the average person, I bet Tyson is just a convicted rapist, a mental-case. However, the person beneath all the bullshit talk, is completely different.

When watching Beyond The Glory of the Tyson story, I think the best footage was when Tyson was in his pigeon coup. Mike seemed so content, like he didn't have a care in the world, like he forgot about everything else, while he with the pigeons etc.

In respect of his court case, I can't see anything other than a jail sentence. Probably a hefty one a that because it's Tyson. I also hope he gets off, but I'm not hopeful of that being the outcome.

Wonder how well think life from now onwill play out for Mike? I bet there are soem who can't believe he's still alive aged 41. I remember when people were saying he'll be dead before he's 30!

On a recent ESPN classic show, Teddy Atlas was claiming that some of that footage from such documentaries as "Beyond the Glory" were staged. Even the "off screen" persona of Tyson that was potrayed as the gentle, intelligent, giant - was not real. Atlas says he was very hard to control, hard to discipline - thats with Cus being alive.

Tyson should be an boxing analyst though - seen him on some shows and he puts guys like Bert Sugar and Bob Sheridan in the shade with his knowledge.

Oh they were totally staged stu! It's very well documented that Cus, and even more so, Jim Jacobs and Bill Cayton gave Tyson an act to follow, he started out as a demure student of the game, and as time went on, they constructed this myth as the elemental destroyer of men, which in time under Don King, evolved into 'the baddest man on the planet' a sort of dark, brooding ghetto superman.

The point is, that Tyson's own persona was never really allowed to develop properly, he was treated like a child by Cus, and then by Jim and Bill. His mistakes were cleaned up or glossed over, and he wasn't really able to learn from them. Tyson's progression as an adult was retarted as a result.

He is however surprisingly articulate, and apparently very affable face to face with people who have no agenda with him and just want to talk to him face to face. Unfortunately, in Mike's case, there are going to be very few people who don't have an agenda.

Mike is certainly no angel, he's a guy with a lot of problems, and his pretty screwed up, but he didn't get to be like that all on his own. Possibly the worst thing that ever happened to him was being found by Cus. Who knows, had he wound up in jail at an early age, he may have learned from his mistakes and become a better person for it.

Cus has been mythologised too much, he was a selfish old man who was obssessed with proving that he could develop the greatest heavyweight in the world by using his system, and didn't really give a shit what it took to make that happen. Tyson was merely the physical clay, the real estate on which to build the house of Cus. Tyson was to be his epitaph, his one great triumph, like Ozymandius, he tried to construct something that would be remembered for all time, whether or not that meant doing right by Mike or anyone else was of secondary concern, and I think Mike realised this many years later, in the latter stages of his career.

Mmmm. Interesting theory James.

Personally, I would counter that Tyson would have been better served being 'clay' for Cus, than a free man under the guidance of those that followed Cus' death.

His professional decline is an obvious reflective of the damage Tyson freedom and lack of system and boundaries had on him. His mental and social stability were closely aligned to his success as a fighter.

When he was professionally reborn after jail in the mid-90's, he was successful but he wasn't the eager, balanced student of his youth and the success was superficial, everyone could see he was an eroded talent and a less content individual.

Holyfield, his professional, spiritual and social antithesis (though he would later be exposed as fraud in his private life) was a timely and ironic full stop on the charade. And so the spiral began again.

Tyson under Cus' guidance wouldn't bite an opponents ear off. Just an example of the effect he would have had. Would Tyson have been more productive and happy with the stricter regime? I think so.

That isn't to say Cus didn't have an agenda, but a content, stable Tyson suited all parties.

Ricky Hatton, then Michael Winner and Paul Anka?

fornicating rubbish, at least Hatton is current. Parkinson lost it years ago....

And what the hell is Winner on?

"I've written a book about how to lose weight, when I go to posh restaurants I only eat half of the plate of food, and then do the same with the pudding etc etc"

Fat pudendum....so he wants us to eat less of the caviar we order, fornicating windbag....

Yeah I was aghast at that - selling a diet book telling people to eat what they like but smaller portions. Hallelujah wish I had thought of that!

DavidPayne wrote:Mmmm. Interesting theory James.

Personally, I would counter that Tyson would have been better served being 'clay' for Cus, than a free man under the guidance of those that followed Cus' death.

His professional decline is an obvious reflective of the damage Tyson freedom and lack of system and boundaries had on him. His mental and social stability were closely aligned to his success as a fighter.

When he was professionally reborn after jail in the mid-90's, he was successful but he wasn't the eager, balanced student of his youth and the success was superficial, everyone could see he was an eroded talent and a less content individual.

Holyfield, his professional, spiritual and social antithesis (though he would later be exposed as fraud in his private life) was a timely and ironic full stop on the charade. And so the spiral began again.

Tyson under Cus' guidance wouldn't bite an opponents ear off. Just an example of the effect he would have had. Would Tyson have been more productive and happy with the stricter regime? I think so.

That isn't to say Cus didn't have an agenda, but a content, stable Tyson suited all parties.

My point was not that he would have been better of being guided by someone else, but rather he may have been better off not being discovered at all and never taking up boxing.

The decline of Tyson's career can also be charted in direct parallel for him falling out of love with the sport. When he returned from jail, he no longer had any love for the sport at all I don't think. It was just a job he did to make money to give him some sort of purpose.

Cus' influence was beneficial for a time, but it was inevitable that Tyson would rail against such a suffocating all encompassing system, just as his charge Patterson did beforehand. Cus' system of fighting and indeed of living, did not allow for any free expression, and once the money started rolling in and Tyson started to become a star, he began rebelling against Cus' ideals. It was a matter of time before the split happened, it's just that Cus died first.

Part of the reason Tyson was attracted to Don King, was that he found a role model in Don that he could understand, after being surrounded by fusty old white codgers, Don was something that Mike unfortunately aspired to, a kind of ghetto daddy figure.

Tyson's story is such an interesting one to get into, I find him such a fascinating figure, and the details surrounded his meteoric rise and fall are such rich material for speculation and investigation.

If you haven't read it yet David, then I really recommend you read 'Mike Tyson, money myth and betrayal.' by Moteif Illingworth. Not sure if it is in print currently, but see if you can get a copy. It goes into great detail on the relationship between Mike, Cus, Jim and Bill Cayton, there's some fascinating material in there. It ends with the rape trial and some of the details surrounding it.

Mike Tyson: Money, Myth and Betrayal, few copies on amazon


http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h ... =13&Go.y=9

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

DavidPayne wrote:Mmmm. Interesting theory James.

Personally, I would counter that Tyson would have been better served being 'clay' for Cus, than a free man under the guidance of those that followed Cus' death.

His professional decline is an obvious reflective of the damage Tyson freedom and lack of system and boundaries had on him. His mental and social stability were closely aligned to his success as a fighter.

When he was professionally reborn after jail in the mid-90's, he was successful but he wasn't the eager, balanced student of his youth and the success was superficial, everyone could see he was an eroded talent and a less content individual.

Holyfield, his professional, spiritual and social antithesis (though he would later be exposed as fraud in his private life) was a timely and ironic full stop on the charade. And so the spiral began again.

Tyson under Cus' guidance wouldn't bite an opponents ear off. Just an example of the effect he would have had. Would Tyson have been more productive and happy with the stricter regime? I think so.

That isn't to say Cus didn't have an agenda, but a content, stable Tyson suited all parties.

My point was not that he would have been better of being guided by someone else, but rather he may have been better off not being discovered at all and never taking up boxing.

The decline of Tyson's career can also be charted in direct parallel for him falling out of love with the sport. When he returned from jail, he no longer had any love for the sport at all I don't think. It was just a job he did to make money to give him some sort of purpose.

Cus' influence was beneficial for a time, but it was inevitable that Tyson would rail against such a suffocating all encompassing system, just as his charge Patterson did beforehand. Cus' system of fighting and indeed of living, did not allow for any free expression, and once the money started rolling in and Tyson started to become a star, he began rebelling against Cus' ideals. It was a matter of time before the split happened, it's just that Cus died first.

Part of the reason Tyson was attracted to Don King, was that he found a role model in Don that he could understand, after being surrounded by fusty old white codgers, Don was something that Mike unfortunately aspired to, a kind of ghetto daddy figure.

Tyson's story is such an interesting one to get into, I find him such a fascinating figure, and the details surrounded his meteoric rise and fall are such rich material for speculation and investigation.

If you haven't read it yet David, then I really recommend you read 'Mike Tyson, money myth and betrayal.' by Moteif Illingworth. Not sure if it is in print currently, but see if you can get a copy. It goes into great detail on the relationship between Mike, Cus, Jim and Bill Cayton, there's some fascinating material in there. It ends with the rape trial and some of the details surrounding it.

Some interesting points about Tyson on here but to say he would never have been better if he was never discovered at all sounds pretty insane. Hes had a life that we meer mortals came only dream about. Despite declaring bankruptcy hes set for life and came make far more money than 99% of men with incredible ease despite been retired from the sport. Even in bankruptcy hes led the life of riley. I'm not saying his life has been perfect but thats largely due to a focus on short term thrills whether easy women, drugs, or spending money liek water

Imagine his life if he didn't take up boxing, he'd be in and out of prison for all of his life. He wouldn't have had a father figure

I also think its unfair to Cus to call him 'selfish' for wanting a great HW champ. Maybe he had some selfish reasons but he also was a father figure to Mike that Mike never had growing up and gave the boy a trade and education and some sort of moral system

According to Teddy Atlas Cus never made Tyson do is HSD.. therefore giving him nothing more than his Boxing, no grounding at all,im with McDonnell..

Bert Sugar agreed also

thepocketrocket wrote:According to Teddy Atlas Cus never made Tyson do is HSD.. therefore giving him nothing more than his Boxing, no grounding at all,im with McDonnell..

Bert Sugar agreed also

I've seen footage of Atlas claiming Tyson's schooling, qualifications suffered when he was a teenager. Tyson was expelled from school, Cus said he would get Mike a private tutor, but never did!

Out of all the footage I've seen of Tyson, what was very revealing is when he broke down just before fighting in the amateurs, with Teddy Atlas having to talk Mike round, reassure him, etc.

Right from a very early age, I think there was a lot of pressure on Mike. Can you imagine if Tyson hadn't succeeded a a boxer? What would he have done then at such a young age?

In regards to Teddy Atlas, he may be correct when he says Tyson didn't get his qualifications, was not disciplined enough by Cus about his behaviour, but make no mistake, Atlas is a bitter, angry man!

Teddy was Mike's original trainer, & probably feels he should have been in the position of Kevin Rooney, receiving big money & getting the recognition for training Tyson.

If Atlas was in place of Rooney, do we think it would have been the same, would Mike have been as successful or not as a fighter?