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Marciano beat everyone who was put in front of him. he was a beast!!! for the skill he had, he did great!

NYY2424 wrote:Marciano beat everyone who was put in front of him. he was a beast!!! for the skill he had, he did great!

He was a beast alright, look at the way he fouled poor Don Cockell.... anyone else would have been disqualified, his conduct in that bout was nothing short of scandalous but very few care to comment on it....

silkov wrote:

NYY2424 wrote:Marciano beat everyone who was put in front of him. he was a beast!!! for the skill he had, he did great!

He was a beast alright, look at the way he fouled poor Don Cockell.... anyone else would have been disqualified, his conduct in that bout was nothing short of scandalous but very few care to comment on it....

well you are right.... but sense he didnt get DQ. he won! its sad but true. things happen like that all the time. its part of the bad side of the sport!

NYY2424 wrote:

silkov wrote:

NYY2424 wrote:Marciano beat everyone who was put in front of him. he was a beast!!! for the skill he had, he did great!

He was a beast alright, look at the way he fouled poor Don Cockell.... anyone else would have been disqualified, his conduct in that bout was nothing short of scandalous but very few care to comment on it....

well you are right.... but sense he didnt get DQ. he won! its sad but true. things happen like that all the time. its part of the bad side of the sport!

Well I dont recall many other heavyweight champs fighting so dirty, people talk about Holyfield but he was a saint in comparison and Frazier who had a simular style to Rocky was a very clean fighter, for me Rockys dirty tactics detract from him as a fighter, they have to....

Roy Jones shouldn't be on the list.

I don't think Ali is underrated, but I do agree that people are "Alied out" as silkov puts it. His career is also overanalyzed, as I keep saying, and small things that he did that other fighters would never be criticized for he gets criticized for all the time now. And the twenty Ali threads a week don't help.

But, anyway, yes ezzard I think I'm aware of what "overrated" means. James Toney and Felix Trinidad have a lot of fans and receive a lot of adulation. And what I'm saying is that whatever greater adulation that Jones or Hopkins get in comparison to Toney or Trinidad is deserved; they were better fighters, and its not just because they dominated those two. And I like Toney and Trinidad, but I think its clear who the better fighters were, and I think people get a little carried away with Trinidad in particular.

But to your comment about Ali being overrated, it depends on who you mean. Are you talking about those who rate him the greatest fighter ever, pound for pound? If so, then I would say yes. If you're talking about the general boxing fan, then I would say no.

I Feel Fine wrote:I don't think Ali is underrated, but I do agree that people are "Alied out" as silkov puts it. His career is also overanalyzed, as I keep saying, and small things that he did that other fighters would never be criticized for he gets criticized for all the time now. And the twenty Ali threads a week don't help.

But, anyway, yes ezzard I think I'm aware of what "overrated" means. James Toney and Felix Trinidad have a lot of fans and receive a lot of adulation. And what I'm saying is that whatever greater adulation that Jones or Hopkins get in comparison to Toney or Trinidad is deserved; they were better fighters, and its not just because they dominated those two. And I like Toney and Trinidad, but I think its clear who the better fighters were, and I think people get a little carried away with Trinidad in particular.

But to your comment about Ali being overrated, it depends on who you mean. Are you talking about those who rate him the greatest fighter ever, pound for pound? If so, then I would say yes. If you're talking about the general boxing fan, then I would say no.

Sorry, the way you put it about Jones and Toney etc made it seem like Jones couldn't be more overrated as he was better... I just wanted to point out that it made no difference.

My feeling on Ali and it goes for Robinson, Armstrong and all the other top echelon of fighters is... Once you get to the top 10-15 fighters in any division then you have a situation where any of them could beat the other. I mean there's not that much in it. Ali proved himself with his wins and deserves his status at the top but if he fought an all-time top 20 he wouldn't come out without at least 1 defeat (nobody would).

Ezzard wrote: My feeling on Ali and it goes for Robinson, Armstrong and all the other top echelon of fighters is... Once you get to the top 10-15 fighters in any division then you have a situation where any of them could beat the other. I mean there's not that much in it. Ali proved himself with his wins and deserves his status at the top but if he fought an all-time top 20 he wouldn't come out without at least 1 defeat (nobody would).

I agree.

The question, of course, is which fighters are going to be the ones to pull it off. The most likely candidates, for me, I think are...

Joe Louis (All the tools & never at less than 100%)
Larry Holmes (Not far behind Ali at his best & a difficult style mesh)
Joe Frazier (Styles make fights)

But Joe Louis is the only one of those I would actually take as a favourite to best Ali (Though you wouldn't see me putting any money on it!)

silkov wrote:

NYY2424 wrote:

silkov wrote: He was a beast alright, look at the way he fouled poor Don Cockell.... anyone else would have been disqualified, his conduct in that bout was nothing short of scandalous but very few care to comment on it....

well you are right.... but sense he didnt get DQ. he won! its sad but true. things happen like that all the time. its part of the bad side of the sport!

Well I dont recall many other heavyweight champs fighting so dirty, people talk about Holyfield but he was a saint in comparison and Frazier who had a simular style to Rocky was a very clean fighter, for me Rockys dirty tactics detract from him as a fighter, they have to....

lots of fighters are dirty.

holmes held and hit...maybe lacing them. he hit shavers with both hands like a baseball player for crying out loud.

tyson, well, no explanation needed. dempsey was dirty.

i don't rank rocky that high, he's in the top ten hws list, but greb was dirty as hell and he's a top 3 mw all-time.

pedroza's one of the great feathers, so was saddler, but they were as dirty as the last hooker i banged.

why should rocky be held to a different standard?

aaron pryor is very overrated.

For me its any one who drew the colour line...and that includes Johnson.

Aaron Pryor should be on that list. And if Calzaghe beats Kessler he should come off the list.

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:Dear friends, excused me, but Marciano isn't overrated: he was really greatest

He is not overrated, but I don't think RJJ nor Tyson are overrated.

Dumb poll. IT will say nothing.

It is like making a poll:

Who is the worst athlete of all time:
1. Tiger Woods
2. Michael Jordan
3. Muhammed Ali

The result would be ridiculous no matter whoever would get more votes - just lik this poll.


______If we want t otak REAL overrated we would be talkng .. th fat HW... Bowe, Toney and clowns like that. They are really overrated.

"He'd already cleaned out the black heavyweight division, and he defended his title against a black man." - Decagon

That's quite misleading. He did his share of ducking the better black fighters when it suited him.

silkov wrote:Now I'm not saying these guys werent good, or perhaps even close to great, but I'm saying that their reputations have generally been overhyped past their actual abilities and performances....

1. Mike Tyson
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Roy Jones
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Julio Ceasar Chavez
7. James Toney
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Joe Calzaghe
10. Ricky Hatton

.............comments anyone!... 8)

I dont agree with Tyson, Marciano, Hopkins, Calzaghe and Chavez on your list.

I think the jury is still out on Hatton.

I would add Muhammad Ali and Oscar De La Hoya to your list and possibly Floyd Mayweather too.

It's got to be Mike Tyson IMO.

He was exciting, explosive & you just could not miss his early fights, but never has a fighter who never fought back from adversity or had a plan B when needed been so highly lauded by so many.

KO Artist wrote:

silkov wrote:Now I'm not saying these guys werent good, or perhaps even close to great, but I'm saying that their reputations have generally been overhyped past their actual abilities and performances....

1. Mike Tyson
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Roy Jones
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Felix Trinidad
6. Julio Ceasar Chavez
7. James Toney
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Joe Calzaghe
10. Ricky Hatton

.............comments anyone!... 8)

I dont agree with Tyson, Marciano, Hopkins, Calzaghe and Chavez on your list.

I think the jury is still out on Hatton.

I would add Muhammad Ali and Oscar De La Hoya to your list and possibly Floyd Mayweather too.

Muhammad Ali, overrated?????!!!!

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis? :P

Terry Norris is also overrated 8) 8) 8)

Roy Jones Junior in his prime is the greatest boxer i have ever seen. Like many before him, he went on too long and has perhaps tarnished his legacy but from around 1993 to 2000 he was simply unstoppable.
Arguments will be made about the quality of his opposition but he beat everyone in the division and dominated for over a decade.
If anything, it is possible Jones will be massively underated in years to come as people remember his losses to the average Antonio Tarver, picking on the weakest heavyweight champion John Ruiz before jumping straight back down in weight, and now his 'superfight' with a washed up Tito Trinidad.

I think Mario is onto something, but he may not hear too many more people say that...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Personally, my #1 & #2 would absolutely have to be Muhammad Ali & Ray Robinson. No disrespect or faulting of either of them, let me say. Robinson is my #1 all-time Welter & P4Per, & Ali is my #2 all-time Heavy, but no fighter was ever, will ever, or could ever be as good as these guys' mythology would have you believe.

He was Sugar Ray. What a name for a fighter. He was from New York the Mecca for boxing. He had an entourage. Undefeated as an amateur. 123 and 1 loss in his prime. He carried fighters. Fought everyone except Burley. Pink Cadillacs,owned a night club and city block in Harlem. How many fighters tried to copy his style including Ali? The only film we have on him is when he was past his prime. All the allure combined with his record,23 years as a pro. He's hard to top.

When Robinson turned middleweight in 1950,Moore was a light heavy,Charles had grown into a small heavyweight,Marshall and Bivins were fighting light heavies and heavyweights. Robinson went up in weight and failed to beat Maxim and retired in 1952.

Dagosd...

I never said he wasn't hard to top. In fact, I specifically stated he sits at the top of my p4p list. But I did say he could never be as perfect as his mythology states, & I believe that.

Good Night Irene I know you said he was at the top of your 147 list. But in every sport,in politics,on the battlefield you have your images of people who grow into legend and that's how they're remembered. They are our heritage. They're cherised because we see them as perfect in an imperfect world. They accomplished grest things They are the heroes,when we sit around and email each other about who's the greater hero.Patton lost some battles as did Stonewall Jackson. Remember Churchill with Gallipoli? Babe Ruth's 1925 year was a washout and that was when he was in his prime. And George Washington had slaves and lost more battles than he won..But their successes greatly outweighed their stumbles. Robinson didn't fight Holman Williams,but he fought Beau Jack,Henry Armstrong,Kid Gavilan twice,Randy Turpin twice,and won the title from Tommy Bell. If they fell they certainly knew how to get back up.