William Kickett

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 26 Dec 2007, 04:03

p4p1 wrote:i have seen fighters go down hill when he trais him ben rabah and ben cruz retired coz of him and where else can they go in australia

Ben Rabah was beaten by Lovemore no disgrace as he is a top 15 fighter, Cruz was overhyped and nearly stopped by a thai journeyman.

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 26 Dec 2007, 10:07

ben k wrote:
R_jay wrote:Its hard to improve when your trainer is perpetually in and out of jail.
When was the last time he was in jail, You are talking shit and discrediting a good trainer in the process.

I have been into his gym and met Craig before and he is a decent guy who trains his fighters well. He has a good stable of fighters at his gym and seems to really help the young fighters who are on there way up.

I dont know what the deal is with Cruz but in his last or second last fight he was dropped badly by a Thai import and i havnt seen him since.

lol.

If you're acting like what I say isn't factual then you are delusional. Craig is a good guy to talk to and he knows his boxing, and has alot of passion for the sport. He pumps alot of his own money into his fighters to provide them with opportunities to elevate themselves up the rankings. But don't act like you don't know where the money comes from or be blind to his continual legal problems. He can make money how he choses its not my problem, but if you are trained by him them his constant legal issues must surely be a distraction. Incidentally Cruz is serving time for meth possession with intent to distribute, he won't be back anytime soon. He needed to hire a better lawyer.

bullant · Post by **bullant** » 27 Dec 2007, 03:19

I agree with Ben K. Craig is a great trainer and IMO doesn't get the recognition he deserves.

You talk about the fight with Lovemore, where was Ben Rabah before he joined Craig's stable going from fights with Fred Kinuthia to World Title fights I think you must be pretty to make that kind of a leap. That was hell of a fight.

As for Ben Cruz, he's not in Jail so I suggest you get the facts right.

Look at Chris John, since he joined Harry's Gym, he's beaten Derrick Gainer, Tommy Browne, Juan Manuel Marquez, Renan Acosta, Jose Rojas, Zaiki Takemoto. That's 3 Mandatory Defenses and 6 Overall World Title Defenses.

Look @ his new prodigy William Kickett. 8 Wins from 8 Starts within his first year? I dunno if I had that record I think my trainer was doing something right don't you?

Where would we be with out the guy in Aussie boxing? The sport would be on its arse.

AntonS · Post by **AntonS** » 27 Dec 2007, 09:07

Incidentally Cruz is serving time for meth possession with intent to distribute, he won't be back anytime soon

It's somewhat unfortunate Benny chose to go down that track for quick buck.

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 27 Dec 2007, 09:19

So Cruz is out, good for him. I don't exactly keep a running record of who's in the pokey and who's gotten out.

Nobody is denying Christian is a good trainer, or has anything but love for the sport of boxing. He looks after his fighters. What you are saying is completely overboard though. The sport would be on his "arse" without him? No way in hell. Boxing is bigger than any 1 man.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 30 Dec 2007, 21:21

Christian was in remand for several months early this year on an assault charge relating to an incident in his gym. The charge was dropped in May because the "victim" went missing. A drug charge against Christian last year was also dismissed.

Being arrested is one thing. Being convicted is something else.

By the way, there is a promoter in Sydney who has an appalling record from his younger years. It does not seem to have stopped him lately.

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 20:27

Brute wrote:Big difference. Mundine came from a wealthy Aboriginal family. Old Tony was always careful with his money. Kickett had to do it hard.

And what a crime! Tony Mundine was wise with his money! And what exactly has that got to do with been an aboriginal. I think you'll come to find Anthony Mundine is at one with his people irrespective of his fathers or his financial situation.

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 20:30

calmac66 wrote:Way better then cool willie. I like Kickett and I can see him going on to do great things but I just hope he is viewing Mundines career as an example of what NOT to do with your talents.

The whiteness is pouring through in your words! So what has been wrong with Mundines career? For a guy with limited amateur experience to make the step up to the paid ranks like he has is pretty exceptional. What don't you like? That he has been outspoken? Like Ali? Given his particular world view? You do realize he couldn't give a shite what Joe public thinks re his particular life truths. For they are his truths re his lot in Australia.

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 20:32

tunacatcher wrote:
calmac66 wrote:Way better then cool willie. I like Kickett and I can see him going on to do great things but I just hope he is viewing Mundines career as an example of what NOT to do with your talents.
The whiteness is pouring through in your words! So what has been wrong with Mundines career? For a guy with limited amateur experience to make the step up to the paid ranks like he has is pretty exceptional. What don't you like? That he has been outspoken? Like Ali? Given his particular world view? You do realize he couldn't give a shite what Joe public thinks re his particular life truths. For they are his truths re his lot in Australia.

So have you a better example of how to be a an Aboriginal pro boxer fighting predominantly out of Australia?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 09 Jan 2008, 20:48

tunacatcher wrote:So what has been wrong with Mundines career?

How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 22:38

Marlin wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:So what has been wrong with Mundines career?
How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???

Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 22:39

tunacatcher wrote:
Marlin wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:So what has been wrong with Mundines career?
How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???
Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".

So who have you fought champ? Put up your boxing record to date. Lets make comparisons between the number of world champions you've fought and Mundine has fought.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 09 Jan 2008, 22:47

tunacatcher wrote:
Marlin wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:So what has been wrong with Mundines career?
How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???
Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".

Wow, out of 33 fight you have named 5 decent names, three of which were losses and one who was literally shot!!!

His level of competition outside those names (and Soliman even though he is a small middleweight and should have got the decision in their first fight) is abysmal. He doesn't even bother taking on decent fighters just goes for out and out scrubs!!!

Jose Alberto Clavero, Pablo Daniel Zamora Nievas, Ruben Eduardo Acosta, Rico Chong Nee, Rashid Matumla, Darmel Castillo and Juarne Dowling are just the recent ones he has fought...

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 09 Jan 2008, 22:48

tunacatcher wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:
Marlin wrote: How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???
Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".
So who have you fought champ? Put up your boxing record to date. Lets make comparisons between the number of world champions you've fought and Mundine has fought.

Why do you keep replying to your own posts? You just asked youself to put your own record up!

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:16

Marlin wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:
Marlin wrote: How about the fact that he constantly fights scubs???
Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".
Wow, out of 33 fight you have named 5 decent names, three of which were losses and one who was literally shot!!!

His level of competition outside those names (and Soliman even though he is a small middleweight and should have got the decision in their first fight) is abysmal. He doesn't even bother taking on decent fighters just goes for out and out scrubs!!!

Jose Alberto Clavero, Pablo Daniel Zamora Nievas, Ruben Eduardo Acosta, Rico Chong Nee, Rashid Matumla, Darmel Castillo and Juarne Dowling are just the recent ones he has fought...

All fighters take tune ups. That is the nature of the beast called boxing. FFS look at Mike Tyson early career...then his latter career. Same applies with David Tua - who the hell is Cisse Salif, Monty Two Gunz Barret, Saul Montana or . Name a single boxer in Australian history that has made the inroads into a boxing career that Mundine has in the incredibly short time he has being boxing.

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:18

tunacatcher wrote:
Marlin wrote:
tunacatcher wrote: Danny Green, Manny Siaca, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols, Sven Ottke all have either held world titles and or challenged. Not bad names to have on a boxers resume given the guy has only been boxing for a limited time. Christ! Amateurs have had more fights that Mundine has to date! Just goes to show the phenomenal talent of the man. I don't know if Danny Green, Sven Ottke, Mikkel Kessler, Antwun Echols or Sven Ottke defined themselves as "scubs".
Wow, out of 33 fight you have named 5 decent names, three of which were losses and one who was literally shot!!!

His level of competition outside those names (and Soliman even though he is a small middleweight and should have got the decision in their first fight) is abysmal. He doesn't even bother taking on decent fighters just goes for out and out scrubs!!!

Jose Alberto Clavero, Pablo Daniel Zamora Nievas, Ruben Eduardo Acosta, Rico Chong Nee, Rashid Matumla, Darmel Castillo and Juarne Dowling are just the recent ones he has fought...
All fighters take tune ups. That is the nature of the beast called boxing. FFS look at Mike Tyson early career...then his latter career. Same applies with David Tua - who the hell is Cisse Salif, Monty Two Gunz Barret, Saul Montana or . Name a single boxer in Australian history that has made the inroads into a boxing career that Mundine has in the incredibly short time he has being boxing.

Are you suggesting there are boxers out there that while building or maintaining their careers have fought world class fighters every step of the way?

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:43

Ok this guy (guys?) is freaking me out with his double reply thing...

And no not everyone fights world class opponents every fight but "Title" defences are almost always against better opposition than Jose Alberto Clavero or Ruben Eduardo Acosta. There are bad fighters and then there are Mundine's choice of opponents...

R_jay · Post by **R_jay** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:48

I think he's a bit nuts.

You can't defend that fact that Mundine fights bums. He's fought some damn good fighters, but then he goes on a bum-of-the-month tour which is just damn embarrassing for a world-class boxer. There isn't a "world champion" in boxing that fights such shitty fighters on such a consistent basis. Nader Hamdan is next? Get the f**k out of here! How is this even being sanctioned by the WBA? And the worst part is Hamdan isn't even the worst opponent he's faced recently!

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:49

Go and check out any fighters profiles. If they are building or maintaining their careers there will be bums on their fighting slate. Just the way the game goes. Even the greats like Galzaghe and co take bums...as does Tua, Lewis, Mosley, Hatton etc. Just the nature of the game.

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:52

Just an effing cliche to say a fighter takes easy fights. Every fighter takes stop gap fights.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » 09 Jan 2008, 23:55

Ok next time you think about hitting the submit button take a deep breath and ask yourself "is there anything else I want to say"

tunacatcher · Post by **tunacatcher** » 10 Jan 2008, 00:01

Yeah there is something else I want to say "god I get sick of clowns of have no appreciation of the fight game commentating on the fight game".

calmac66 · Post by **calmac66** » 10 Jan 2008, 00:39

tunacatcher wrote:
calmac66 wrote:Way better then cool willie. I like Kickett and I can see him going on to do great things but I just hope he is viewing Mundines career as an example of what NOT to do with your talents.
The whiteness is pouring through in your words! So what has been wrong with Mundines career? For a guy with limited amateur experience to make the step up to the paid ranks like he has is pretty exceptional. What don't you like? That he has been outspoken? Like Ali? Given his particular world view? You do realize he couldn't give a shite what Joe public thinks re his particular life truths. For they are his truths re his lot in Australia.

Just FYI mate, I am aboriginal, my mother is a Dungatti women from Kempsey so maybe you shouldn't be so quick to start chucking the race card at everyone that thinks Mundines career has been sub-par.

Also, no one here is accusing Mundine of lacking talent, quite the opposite in fact. And I know you seem to be an expert so you probably already no this but the general rule is you fight a few cans on your way to claiming a title. You don't fight cans, win a title, then defend against cans. A world title fight should not be viewed as a "stop gap fight".

toppity · Post by **toppity** » 10 Jan 2008, 02:34

calmac66 wrote:
tunacatcher wrote:
calmac66 wrote:Way better then cool willie. I like Kickett and I can see him going on to do great things but I just hope he is viewing Mundines career as an example of what NOT to do with your talents.
The whiteness is pouring through in your words! So what has been wrong with Mundines career? For a guy with limited amateur experience to make the step up to the paid ranks like he has is pretty exceptional. What don't you like? That he has been outspoken? Like Ali? Given his particular world view? You do realize he couldn't give a shite what Joe public thinks re his particular life truths. For they are his truths re his lot in Australia.
Just FYI mate, I am aboriginal, my mother is a Dungatti women from Kempsey so maybe you shouldn't be so quick to start chucking the race card at everyone that thinks Mundines career has been sub-par.

Also, no one here is accusing Mundine of lacking talent, quite the opposite in fact. And I know you seem to be an expert so you probably already no this but the general rule is you fight a few cans on your way to claiming a title. You don't fight cans, win a title, then defend against cans. A world title fight should not be viewed as a "stop gap fight".

Struth, what a great reply.

Just to make things clear before I add my opinion on the matter, I am white, I have no formal pro career and I love boxing. Nobody denies he has talent. Nobody denies that, when he wants to, he can sit comfortably amongst the worlds-best. But he makes his living from the public (gate, sponsors, TV rights). In a sense they are his employer. Yet he appears to be disrespectful to everyone (even his own people - Cathy Freeman). No matter who you are, where you come from or how good you are, he will never be taken seriously when he conducts himself the way he does in public. Those who know him privately see a different side to him (as widely reported) but 99.9% of people can only go on what they see. That is how an opinion is formed.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 10 Jan 2008, 02:47

tunacatcher wrote:
Brute wrote:Big difference. Mundine came from a wealthy Aboriginal family. Old Tony was always careful with his money. Kickett had to do it hard.
And what a crime! Tony Mundine was wise with his money! And what exactly has that got to do with been an aboriginal. I think you'll come to find Anthony Mundine is at one with his people irrespective of his fathers or his financial situation.

My point was that Anthony Mundine had a privileged upbringing compared to Kickett. Tony Mundine is a gentleman and I wish him well.