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Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:28
by Max Molyneux
Chambers2 wrote:Max Molyneux wrote: Ha, he's been offered to fight JC and turns It down and claims he offered JC 1.6 mill. He's not fighting Inkin yet, It's only been offered as an eliminator. He turned Bute down for an IBF eliminator but Instead fights Bute's victim who was under prepared and fought too soon.
How do you know ST was under-prepared and if he was its harldy Carls fault, the problem was with ST' chin anyway not his fitness. How do you know Froch turned the fight down the fight with Bute, both camps were claiming the other stopped the fight from happening.
Max Molyneux wrote:It wasn't 2 months since ST lost to Bute It was a little less.
Super chinned ST got KTFO by Carl
Max Molyneux wrote: Well beating domestic level fighters will hardly rank you In the top 10 will It? It Is easy to be ranked In divisions like Super Middle and Cruiser though. Don't look at wins on paper, look at technique and talent.
Its yourself who keeps saying that Carl hasn't fought the right level of opponent to take on JC, but now you're saying don't look at wins on paper. I'm looking at Carls whole package not just his results and I think his style power and speed causes JC massive problems (more so than any other I can think of)
Barney and Magee should have both been European champions at the time Carl fought them, so they were hardly domestic level and ST was above domestic level as well.
Max Molyneux wrote: He can be put down but will get right back up, Mitchell's punch was like a sledgehammer and turned Joe's body around and Joe got right back up. Mitchell hits harder than Froch.
I don't think Mitchell hits harder than Froch, although both are BIG punchers
Max Molyneux wrote: Froch hits them and then walks Into them pushing them over not officially knocking them down. If all you can say Is Idiotic towards that part then don't mention It. He didn't knock Reid and ST down without shoving them, he hit them and hurt them and them walks Into them technically shoving them. Reid even fell on his legs.
Both fighters got stopped and neither complained, so I can't see where you're coming from with the pushing over comments.
Max Molyneux wrote:Don't need no answers Joe Is technically better In all departments than Froch.
If it was a technique contest (like dressage) then JC wins, but this is boxing and it involves alot more variables than technique. Styles make fights
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The ST stoppage could be considered premature, he got back up. He could of still been getting over the battering Bute gave him. A mediocre Euro win at best.
Well why did Froch turn down the IBF eliminator, yet Bute took It and Is now IBF champ? Would of been better to fight the man who beat ST.
He hasn't fought for the right to fight Calzaghe but I study styles more than paper like most and I'm convinced Froch can be Lacy'ed and that Joe can toy with him. I have explained Froch's style enough for now.
Barney took the money and ran, he was capable of winning. Magee was outboxing him at times and has a bad chin. European champs against Mediocre fighters.
Boxing Is technique more than you think. Joe's style will Lacy Froch's
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:29
by Max Molyneux
punchers chance wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:
Carl's wirey flat footed style will be figured out.
FWIW, i think you are probably right. But he's a worthier opponent than most of the 21 defences have been. If Froch is a joke then what does that make Manfredo?
Pavlik would be a good opponent but he is rematching next spring with Taylor. And B-Hop probably won't want to know, so who should he fight next, Max?
Manfredo could outbox Froch.
He wasn't In Joe's league and he was purely just a money fight for Joe, but he has more top 10 potential than Froch and has solid skills behind a jab.
Fighting Lacy Is more than what Froch has done.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:31
by Max Molyneux
Autobarn wrote:More Sports Network drivel, Max. At lest 1 person believes the propaganda that is allowed in the papers.
Frank W is hailing Pavlik as the big fight, and no doubt you'll give Joe credit for beating Pavlik if it ever happens.
How can Calzage call anyone a joke? He was a national (and international) joke between 2003 and the Lacy fight. Manfredo and Toddler Pockwell were jokes yet there was no shame in taking those mismatches.
Joe is only good in the biggest fights, vs title holders. When he has a hungry guy gunning for him he'll be in bother. Froch could be bigger and stronger up close than Bika was and Joe was a rank (wank?) amateur in that bout.
He's a great fighter basically gunning for other champions. He's not an accomplished title holder by any stretch. Because he's made a pig's ear of it a few too many times in putting his belt on the line.
Do not assume I believe whats In the papers when I don't read newspapers.
You misunderstand what I mean alot.
Kessler was supposed to be hungry too and still lost because Joe Is a better boxer.
Bika was dirty and came only to survive, foulers make anyone look bad.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:32
by Max Molyneux
johnswan1 wrote:Max Molyneux wrote:Calzaghe's wouldn't of been knocked down by Taylor.
Pavlik Isn't In Calzaghe's league.
He Is one of the most limited Champions currently.
Carl's wirey flat footed style will be figured out.
Kessler's best was the 4th, the rest Is debatable and Joe was toying with him In the 12 and Kessler became desperate going for the KO.
Froch's right hand Is his uppercut and that Is too slow to be effective on someone as good as Calzaghe.
Dodson was KO'ed fair and sqaure with a body shot, It wasn't like Froch hit him on the chin to KO him. Magee Is garbage and ducked Barbosa and was outworked by Oakey, he sounded like Sky hype. Reid and ST went down when he walked at them after hitting them.
If he hadn't of hit Dodson with that body shot, then Tony would of gave him a close one as he looked troubled by the work rate. Reids timing made him resort to headlocking Reid when he was hurt on the chin.
After starting brightly Dodson was already in trouble in the third round before Froch landed the body shot that ended it. I've no doubt he'd have been KO'd within a couple of rounds from that point.
Possibly but Froch looked uncomfortable with someone who can put the pressure on, but he landed the right shot to end It.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:33
by Captain Hook
There is no way on God's earth Manfredo would outbox Froch. Based on what?
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:34
by Max Molyneux
Manfredo has better footwork and can work behind a jab which will trouble Froch's low left.
Froch was outboxed and countered by Westermen at times so It's possible.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:34
by Captain Hook
And he's only fighting Lacy because he was on The Contender and he brings dollars, the same reason he was in with JC.
He was never a threat.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:35
by Max Molyneux
Captain Hook wrote:And he's only fighting Lacy because he was on The Contender and he brings dollars, the same reason he was in with JC.
He was never a threat.
He's still stepping up more than Froch.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:37
by thepocketrocket
Off topic dows anyone know what happened to Alan Page?(the man Carl beat for the British Title) I remember Spud saying how good he thought he was going to be and how, in time it would be seen as a good win for Carl
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:39
by Captain Hook
Max Molyneux wrote:Captain Hook wrote:And he's only fighting Lacy because he was on The Contender and he brings dollars, the same reason he was in with JC.
He was never a threat.
He's still stepping up more than Froch.
I agree that Lacy is more of a challenge than Reid for example, but Peter's got Ray Leonard and co behind him, as well as his Contender following, which is why he's there. He's not there on merit.
He's beaten up bums, lost to JC, beaten up a few more bums and is now in with Lacy?! Lacy will KO him and then certain quarters will reckon Lacy is the second coming again! Put Froch in with Lacy, he'll get outboxed again.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:45
by THEBUTCH
Froch is bang up for this fight and I have a feeling Calzaghe's career at world title level is coming full circle... Collins bottled it against Calzaghe and Joe looks like he's going to duck out on Carl.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:51
by Chambers2
Max Molyneux wrote:
Manfredo could outbox Froch.
On that note, I'll stop replying to your posts
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:56
by Captain Hook
:)
You been in court this week Stupot?
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 12:59
by Chambers2
Captain Hook wrote::)
You been in court this week Stupot?
No not this week, talking about court have you seen my new FaceBook profile pic?
Its far more representative of the real me than my 'court' pic is
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:02
by mike john
i cant believe after years of being criticised ( rightly or wrongly ) for facing unsatisfactory competition, and now having vanquished his two leading adversaries to set up the biggest fights of his career, people are calling for joe to face carl froch!?! he whos biggest wins are over brian magee ( european at best ) and sergey tatevosyan ( impressive win over a gate keeper type )? saying joes ducking carl to fight hopkins or pavlik is abit like saying haye ducked enzo to fight mormeck! and we all know whats wrong with that picture. surely?
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:04
by Podmore_Birmingham
Chambers2 wrote:Captain Hook wrote::)
You been in court this week Stupot?
No not this week, talking about court have you seen my new FaceBook profile pic?
Its far more representative of the real me than my 'court' pic is
Nice to see the Mecca that is Bullring in the background
Tom Podmore.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:07
by Chambers2
Took on me weekends shopping trip......I bought a new hat
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:20
by states
Chambers2 wrote:Took on me weekends shopping trip......I bought a new hat
Did you keep the receipt?
Oh, come on, someone had to say it.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:26
by Chambers2
mike john wrote:i cant believe after years of being criticised ( rightly or wrongly ) for facing unsatisfactory competition, and now having vanquished his two leading adversaries to set up the biggest fights of his career, people are calling for joe to face carl froch!?! he whos biggest wins are over brian magee ( european at best ) and sergey tatevosyan ( impressive win over a gate keeper type )? saying joes ducking carl to fight hopkins or pavlik is abit like saying haye ducked enzo to fight mormeck! and we all know whats wrong with that picture. surely?
Froch is not an unsatisfactory opponent like the ones that we've been criticising JC for in the past. I personally ain't saying that JC is ducking Froch, just that Froch-JC would be a far better fight than JC-BH (I'd be amazed if Pavlik moves up a weight after just getting the middleweight titles). The Nard fight is where the money is and wrongly where the prestige is, so thats who JC will be chasing and more than likely fighting, but I'd much prefer the Froch fight
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:27
by Chambers2
states wrote:Chambers2 wrote:Took on me weekends shopping trip......I bought a new hat
Did you keep the receipt?
Oh, come on, someone had to say it.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 13:38
by josh fg
I don't think Froch is better than Vite and Manfrado is reson in its self for the fight to be made. Froch is a good fighter and part of me would like to see the fight but if Calzaghe has two or three fights left in him to secure a legacy he won't do that by fighting Froch.
Hopkins is a great fighter who will give him a closer fight than many think. Froch needs to concerntrait on his own carrer and title ambitions rather than calzaghe. I am a froch fan but you don't prove yourself by fighting unproven but good fighter.
Max Froch is better than manfrado just look at his ametre pedagree he has steped up to european level fighters no problem I don't belive peter Manfrado could.
Stuart Chambers, the hat makes you look like you should have a puppy on a string mate, I'm not saying thats a bad thing but I don't want a copy of the big issue.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 14:14
by Autobarn
Max Molyneux wrote:Manfredo has better footwork and can work behind a jab which will trouble Froch's low left.
Froch was outboxed and countered by Westermen at times so It's possible.
Manredo covers up well on the ropes and that's about all he does better than Froch!
Manfredo is a blown up light middle (ideal Calzaghe challenger). Froch is closer to light heavy. This would be a massacre for Froch.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 14:18
by Autobarn
mike john wrote:i cant believe after years of being criticised ( rightly or wrongly ) for facing unsatisfactory competition, and now having vanquished his two leading adversaries to set up the biggest fights of his career, people are calling for joe to face carl froch!?! he whos biggest wins are over brian magee ( european at best ) and sergey tatevosyan ( impressive win over a gate keeper type )? saying joes ducking carl to fight hopkins or pavlik is abit like saying haye ducked enzo to fight mormeck! and we all know whats wrong with that picture. surely?
Coe on, in all likeliness Calzaghe will agonize over his opponents so long that they'll wind up fighting someone else. Hopkins already has his eyes on Jones Jr; Woods is apparently in talks for a fight Down Under with either Briggs or Green. Pavlik wants to get taylor out of the way and grow into his title @ comfortable speed, so he can be a star on his own terms, not Joe's terms.
The planet doesn't spin around Joe Calzaghe. If he misses out on Hopkins, Woods and Pavlik, what is there for him? Who deserves a fight more than the Froch-Inkin winner??
If Froch beats Inkin, Carl is the #1 challenger by a country mile.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 14:33
by states
Actually, Autobarn, Woods is apparently in talks with Joe now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7104177.stm
EDIT: I see it's already been mentioned. My bad.
Posted: 20 Nov 2007, 14:36
by Autobarn
yeah, I didn' bvelieve it before when ITV reported it a week or 2 ago but I'm pleased if progress is being made.
Hopefully Clinton can make short work of Joe, and then have a cracker against Briggs or Green!