BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote:In Cooper's autobiography he said the two men he never would fight was Marciano and Liston. When The Rock was champion,Cooper I believe was ranked inside the top ten, and when Liston dethroned Patterson, he was also a contender, but shyed away from Liston.

Henry must be talking bollocks then ...... he'd been pro barely 12 months when Marciano had his last fight.

Cap wrote:Woodcock was a bit of an enigma. May have been rushed along. But I'd go with Tommy Farr, as he probably did deserve the decision against Louis, as well as against Braddock.

Cap

Just saw Louis/Farr on ESPN. Joe was the winner,but Farr gave him problems. I think everyone thought Joe would walk through Tommy. Farr's face was pretty banged up. He took some hard shots from Joe,but Joe had a tuff time landing. Farr was a good boxer and if you're not counting Lewis I'd go with Farr as the best Brit. Cooper 2nd. He came that close to KOing Clay. Both were class guys outside the ring.

It's possible a fight could have happened, as Marciano was hoping to have a 50th fight and then retire as champion [according to the September 23, 1955 issue of the New York Times] by June of 1956.

That of course didn't happen, as Nino Valdes and Bob Baker put on a lackluster performance to where the IBC more or less exited out both men as the #1 contender for Marciano's title. Then there was talk of an exhibition fight between Marciano and Light Heavyweight prospect (who just turned Heavyweight) Floyd Patterson and was to be on Tuesday Night Fights but no venue wanted it, so that also didn't happen.*

It is possible Marciano could have had an 'easy' defense against Cooper, and possibly go after a big fight against the likes of Tommy Jackson, Eddie Machen or someone of higher caliber, but for reasons never quite confirmed, Marciano just up and retired before the supposed June fight date in April and named Patterson, Jackson and Moore as the top three contenders he felt suitable for going after his vacated title.

*This of course all happened in December of 1955; just six months away from the supposed '50th' fight that never happened


Marciano would later be offered fights against Patterson and later Johansson, both of which were either turned down and/or never materialized for one reason or another. Rumors of animosity and altercations between Marciano and Sonny Liston were spread around, but nothing ever became of that as well.

RING Rankings 1960-1962:

1960- Cooper was ranked #5
1961- Cooper was ranked #8
1962- Cooper was ranked #10

Henry Cooper wouldn't crack the top 10 again until 1969 at #9, and from then on out wouldn't ever crack the top 10.

Oddly enough I couldnt find rankings from 1956-1959, I know I had them posted somewhere once ages ago on a Marciano hypothetical computer simulation to see if he could have went 4-5 more years as champion [which he did, btw] to make it an accurate simulation and not be feeding Marciano a bunch of set ups. Maybe I'll look for it some other day, but not now, am too tired.

Bladder wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:In Cooper's autobiography he said the two men he never would fight was Marciano and Liston. When The Rock was champion,Cooper I believe was ranked inside the top ten, and when Liston dethroned Patterson, he was also a contender, but shyed away from Liston.

Henry must be talking bollocks then ......

Wouldn't be the first or last time.

Collins2000 wrote:

Cap wrote:Woodcock was a bit of an enigma. May have been rushed along. But I'd go with Tommy Farr, as he probably did deserve the decision against Louis, as well as against Braddock.

Cap

What do you base that on?

Clips of the Louis-Farr fight and round by round write-ups of both fights. Had the matches taken place in almost any other country, Farr would've most likely been declared the winner.

Cap

Cap wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:

Cap wrote:Woodcock was a bit of an enigma. May have been rushed along. But I'd go with Tommy Farr, as he probably did deserve the decision against Louis, as well as against Braddock.

Cap

What do you base that on?

Clips of the Louis-Farr fight and round by round write-ups of both fights. Had the matches taken place in almost any other country, Farr would've most likely been declared the winner.

Cap

Clips can be misleading.

Can you post some of these write-ups that had Farr winning the LOUIS Fight?

I don't understand your last statement. Are you saying it was a crooked decision?

Not intentionally crooked, no. Louis was champion and an American. Farr was not well known in America and he was a foreigner. Consider the times the match took place in. There was an understandable nationalist bias to keep the title in the States. Had the fight taken place in Britain, that edge would have been on Farr's side. As for round-by-round reports, I'm sure you have better access to US papers than I do. I have a strong recollection of one wire-service report that scored each round, and tallying up the rounds had Farr with a lead at the end.

That was, I believe, Farr's best night. The high point of his career. One of those rare moments in a fighter's life when everything comes together, he feels in absolute top form and unbeatable.

Cap

mimmy123 wrote:was it Woodcock, Bruno, Horice Notice, Cooper?? who do you think was the best Heavyweight England ever produced.
( lets go without Lennox lewis as he was only born here and lets face it fought in the olympics as a Canadian)

Whether you agree or not, Lewis IS British.

He was born here, has a British passport & was quite happy to return here as an adult.

It is not his fault that his mother emgrated when he was 12.

He is far & away the best UK heavyweight ever.

None of the others are fit to iron his jockstrap.

Cap wrote:Not intentionally crooked, no. Louis was champion and an American. Farr was not well known in America and he was a foreigner. Consider the times the match took place in. There was an understandable nationalist bias to keep the title in the States. Had the fight taken place in Britain, that edge would have been on Farr's side. As for round-by-round reports, I'm sure you have better access to US papers than I do. I have a strong recollection of one wire-service report that scored each round, and tallying up the rounds had Farr with a lead at the end.

That was, I believe, Farr's best night. The high point of his career. One of those rare moments in a fighter's life when everything comes together, he feels in absolute top form and unbeatable.

Cap

All of the U.S. newspaper reports had Louis winning comfortably on points in a tough fight. The clips show Louis winning most of the rounds (that are shown) . . the only people who cried robbery were Brits listening to the biased English radio-call of the fight.

Cap wrote:Not intentionally crooked, no. Louis was champion and an American. Farr was not well known in America and he was a foreigner. Consider the times the match took place in. There was an understandable nationalist bias to keep the title in the States. Had the fight taken place in Britain, that edge would have been on Farr's side. As for round-by-round reports, I'm sure you have better access to US papers than I do. I have a strong recollection of one wire-service report that scored each round, and tallying up the rounds had Farr with a lead at the end.

That was, I believe, Farr's best night. The high point of his career. One of those rare moments in a fighter's life when everything comes together, he feels in absolute top form and unbeatable.

Cap

Farr gave Louis a hard night's work, but there's no way he won it. I've read contemporary reports of the fight and don't remember reading one claiming he did.

I'd definitely say he's our best ever heavy, though, as a nation we've always been poor in that weight class.

well if u are not counting Lewis, IMO Bruno