BoxRec

josh fg wrote:

Maelstrom wrote:

josh fg wrote: well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

josh fg wrote:

Maelstrom wrote:

josh fg wrote: well racism is about a power dynamic and white people weren't persecuted by black people for years so there is a different complexion to black prejudice against white people than there is on white racism.

Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

rasputin wrote:

josh fg wrote:

Maelstrom wrote: Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

Sorry lads but to settle this argument you dont need an
oxford degree! whats good for one is good for all, people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones

Maelstrom wrote:

josh fg wrote:

Maelstrom wrote: Sorry Josh, but No, No, No.

This is the definition of racist:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not mention about who has oppressed who, or power dynamics.

That really is end of subject but also, lets take your example...... Blacks have been oppressed by whites and any subsequent comment a white person may make is rightfully deemed racist and objected to, (and I believe should be subject to punsihment).

Given that they are corectly and vehemently objected to, how can any sane person saying the opposite, (i.e. similar comment towards white people), not be deemed a racist. It is fine to complain about a behaviour, but not if you do it yourself or condone others.

Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

Well my English dictionary, and virtually everybody elses understanding of it in a modern day context, is different.

Where would it end? Would a once oppressed race be justified in then oppressing somebody else. Ridicolous mate, sorry.

I firmly believe colour is irrelevant. Any comment that suggests otherwise simply antagaonises/continues race wars that have dragged on for centuries.

josh fg wrote:

rasputin wrote:

josh fg wrote: Honnestly there have been books writen about the defenition of racism many of which due to my old job I read. The etimology of the word is from Trotsky who certainly saw it as based in a power dynamic.

Sorry lads but to settle this argument you dont need an
oxford degree! whats good for one is good for all, people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones

Cool lets start with inheritance and give the black community of this country the 8 billion we owe them from slavery cos thats money that is rightfuly theres and we haven't payed them back and if inheritance and debt is good for us then its good for them aswell.

jeej wrote:

josh fg wrote:

rasputin wrote: Sorry lads but to settle this argument you dont need an
oxford degree! whats good for one is good for all, people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones

Cool lets start with inheritance and give the black community of this country the 8 billion we owe them from slavery cos thats money that is rightfuly theres and we haven't payed them back and if inheritance and debt is good for us then its good for them aswell.

Does that include a deduction for services rendered? I'll stop now, cos this will just get silly. Some would conclude that we are racist for just talking about this shit.

silkov wrote:Well if we're going to atone for things done over a hundred years ago why dont we just go out onto the streets and flog ourselves while we're at it!... its that sort of liberal nonsense thats ruined this country in many ways...

Red Medicine wrote:Calzaghe's gonna slap him back to Africa.

SticknMove wrote:What really annoys me most about the whole race issue is that when I was at my comprehensive east end school there was about 70% white 25% black and 5 % asian, but when the it came to achievement in exams the asians way over achieved white and black - yet the blacks scream about lack of opportunities. It is quite clear that there is a cultural problem within the black community that the wiser and more astute of that community are trying to address. It's been a long time since I was at school and statuting laws only differentiate people rather than draw them together.

Maelstrom wrote:And just to take this to another level I will ask another question... who invented slavery? Agreed we took it to another, completely atrocious level, but who started it?

To be honest, I don't really care. But my point here is that things have happened in the past. Terrible things. But I cannot atone for them now, neither can any of my contemporaries, event though the behaviour was outrageous.

Are you going to track down the tribes in Africa that invented slavery and punish them?

It's getting daft I know, but what I am trying to say is: Surely any reference to the bad old days can only be a bad thing? Why bring them back...... a la Hopkins.

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote:What really annoys me most about the whole race issue is that when I was at my comprehensive east end school there was about 70% white 25% black and 5 % asian, but when the it came to achievement in exams the asians way over achieved white and black - yet the blacks scream about lack of opportunities. It is quite clear that there is a cultural problem within the black community that the wiser and more astute of that community are trying to address. It's been a long time since I was at school and statuting laws only differentiate people rather than draw them together.

At university level a the same paper submitted by someone with a "black" sounding name scored 12% less than that submitted by a student with a white sounding names. Sometimes people in the education system assume these people will fail and they don't get the same brakes.

Red Medicine wrote:Those are just statistics tossed around... I don't personally believe that kind of prejudice would happen at a university.

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote:What really annoys me most about the whole race issue is that when I was at my comprehensive east end school there was about 70% white 25% black and 5 % asian, but when the it came to achievement in exams the asians way over achieved white and black - yet the blacks scream about lack of opportunities. It is quite clear that there is a cultural problem within the black community that the wiser and more astute of that community are trying to address. It's been a long time since I was at school and statuting laws only differentiate people rather than draw them together.

At university level a the same paper submitted by someone with a "black" sounding name scored 12% less than that submitted by a student with a white sounding names. Sometimes people in the education system assume these people will fail and they don't get the same brakes.

SticknMove wrote:

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote:What really annoys me most about the whole race issue is that when I was at my comprehensive east end school there was about 70% white 25% black and 5 % asian, but when the it came to achievement in exams the asians way over achieved white and black - yet the blacks scream about lack of opportunities. It is quite clear that there is a cultural problem within the black community that the wiser and more astute of that community are trying to address. It's been a long time since I was at school and statuting laws only differentiate people rather than draw them together.

At university level a the same paper submitted by someone with a "black" sounding name scored 12% less than that submitted by a student with a white sounding names. Sometimes people in the education system assume these people will fail and they don't get the same brakes.

I dont know about the names that referred their papers when you was at uni, but at my time in school these kids had surnames that the examining boards could never have had an inkling of ethnic origin. If there was a conspiracy of racism in that format surely asians would have been under the same scrutin - they weren't and they achieved, thus providing more career opportunities.

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote:

josh fg wrote:At university level a the same paper submitted by someone with a "black" sounding name scored 12% less than that submitted by a student with a white sounding names. Sometimes people in the education system assume these people will fail and they don't get the same brakes.

I dont know about the names that referred their papers when you was at uni, but at my time in school these kids had surnames that the examining boards could never have had an inkling of ethnic origin. If there was a conspiracy of racism in that format surely asians would have been under the same scrutin - they weren't and they achieved, thus providing more career opportunities.

The point I was making was that even at that level in supposedly liberal universities there are some inate assumptions made about the abilities of black (african caribian) it would also appear that they come against the same problem throughout school and teachers pidgen hole them far too early.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-Like-Schoo ... 1905192061

SticknMove wrote:

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote: I dont know about the names that referred their papers when you was at uni, but at my time in school these kids had surnames that the examining boards could never have had an inkling of ethnic origin. If there was a conspiracy of racism in that format surely asians would have been under the same scrutin - they weren't and they achieved, thus providing more career opportunities.

The point I was making was that even at that level in supposedly liberal universities there are some inate assumptions made about the abilities of black (african caribian) it would also appear that they come against the same problem throughout school and teachers pidgen hole them far too early.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-Like-Schoo ... 1905192061

Well I have never been aware of it to be honest. I don't need to read a book to tell me what I experienced as a kid. A liberal manual to allow certain behaviours to be acceptable and blame it on not getting enough attention - at the expense of those that dont need it. Great.

josh fg wrote:

SticknMove wrote:

josh fg wrote: The point I was making was that even at that level in supposedly liberal universities there are some inate assumptions made about the abilities of black (african caribian) it would also appear that they come against the same problem throughout school and teachers pidgen hole them far too early.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-Like-Schoo ... 1905192061

Well I have never been aware of it to be honest. I don't need to read a book to tell me what I experienced as a kid. A liberal manual to allow certain behaviours to be acceptable and blame it on not getting enough attention - at the expense of those that dont need it. Great.

Its something which came out of the black community to examine the problems and doesn't absolve the community of fault in themselves.

Carlos-Wigan wrote:Didn't Hopkins (or it might have been Pernell Whittaker) do this with De La Hoya and De La Hoya responded likewise with racist crap such as 'black people can't take body shots' or something equally ridiculous.

It doesn't matter who comes out with the racist crap, it isn't acceptable, however in the US - it seems racist crap is still an acceptable veichle to sell a fight.

I understand where Josh fg is coming from, black people are generally the victim of racism in so many forms and have been historically opressed, however that for me makes it more irksome that Hopkins of all people - who will have experienced racism in his upbringing, has to play the race card at all to sell the fight.

Deserter wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7133862.stm

Always been a big B-Hop fan, but his comment to Calzaghe in Vegas that he'd "never lose to a white man" is poor, poor form.
The reaction to date has been somewhat muted... can you imagine if it had been the other way round and Calzaghe had "done a Minter"? Suspect the 'fall-out' would have been far greater somehow