Greatest Brit of last 10? Calzaghe? Hatton? Lewis? Hamed?

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:19

That's provided he even faces them, I think he'll fight Hopkins and Woods will fight Tarver and then they'll face each other.

Then Joe Will beat Woods and retire unbeaten

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:21

Lewis 1st.

Rest on a par, but with 2 active fighters...hard to rank them.

rob h · Post by **rob h** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:25

I just find it hard to give Calzaghe a pat on the back, he basically robbed everybody of good fights for years before he fought an unproven/over hyped Lacey.

Kessler was a good win, but i still think hes not done enough.

Even if Joe fought and beat Hopkins now, it wouldnt prove much to me.

Too little to late

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:28

Captain Hook wrote:That's provided he even faces them, I think he'll fight Hopkins and Woods will fight Tarver and then they'll face each other.

Then Joe Will beat Woods and retire unbeaten

My view is that Joe will beat Hopkins fight Taylor if he wins the silly catch weight fight with Pavlik then fight whoever has had the best of the light heavys if they are not a brit (i/e clinton) who will not make him money or someone like RJJ.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:46

I'd go with that. It's such a shame, because I think Calzaghe may well be the most talented champion we've ever had.

He's blessed with the sort of mindset which enables him to have stayed disciplined, and also a very good committed trainer, and has the quick hands and high output neccessary, but just for me, lacked that little bit of desire to prove a point.

I think Joe had the level of talent to have beaten just about anyone around during his career at 168 and maybe even 175, but the challengers haven't been up to muster.

I really wish they had been, because I think Joe is quite possibly the best fighter we've ever produced.

Lewis' achievements are pretty much impossible to eclipse at this stage.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:48

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I'd go with that. It's such a shame, because I think Calzaghe may well be the most talented champion we've ever had.

He's blessed with the sort of mindset which enables him to have stayed disciplined, and also a very good committed trainer, and has the quick hands and high output neccessary, but just for me, lacked that little bit of desire to prove a point.

I think Joe had the level of talent to have beaten just about anyone around during his career at 168 and maybe even 175, but the challengers haven't been up to muster.

I really wish they had been, because I think Joe is quite possibly the best fighter we've ever produced.

Lewis' achievements are pretty much impossible to eclipse at this stage.

It is nice to be able to compair the achivements of two such british boxers who have been active in the last 10 years and were undiputably the best in there devisions for years.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 11:57

Raff The Frenchman wrote:LEWIS without a doubt...he face EVERYONE ! Calzaghe is on the route to be another great, but he now needs to only fight big names until he retires.
He beat Mitchell (champion) he beat Lacy (champion) he beat Kessler (champion) that is a good start, now he needs to fight : Hopkins , Wright, Dawson, Tarver, Woods etc...Its a pity because Joe has incalculable handspeed, i have never seen such fast hands at super middle, he can beat anyone with such gift.

Mitchell was a former champion. A 10 year reign and the only defending champions Joe has faced is Lacy and Kessler - Naz faced and beat more.

Joe's fast - but prime RJJ was faster IMO.

Lewis did not face - Bowe, Moorer, Foreman, Seldon, Wladimir... all champions during Lewis' reigns.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:01

stujones wrote:
Raff The Frenchman wrote:LEWIS without a doubt...he face EVERYONE ! Calzaghe is on the route to be another great, but he now needs to only fight big names until he retires.
He beat Mitchell (champion) he beat Lacy (champion) he beat Kessler (champion) that is a good start, now he needs to fight : Hopkins , Wright, Dawson, Tarver, Woods etc...Its a pity because Joe has incalculable handspeed, i have never seen such fast hands at super middle, he can beat anyone with such gift.
Mitchell was a former champion. A 10 year reign and the only defending champions Joe has faced is Lacy and Kessler - Naz faced and beat more.

Joe's fast - but prime RJJ was faster IMO.

Lewis did not face - Bowe, Moorer, Foreman, Seldon, Wladimir... all champions during Lewis' reigns.

I just knew missing the Seldon fight would come back to haunt him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:04

oliverfennell wrote:
stujones wrote:
Raff The Frenchman wrote:LEWIS without a doubt...he face EVERYONE ! Calzaghe is on the route to be another great, but he now needs to only fight big names until he retires.
He beat Mitchell (champion) he beat Lacy (champion) he beat Kessler (champion) that is a good start, now he needs to fight : Hopkins , Wright, Dawson, Tarver, Woods etc...Its a pity because Joe has incalculable handspeed, i have never seen such fast hands at super middle, he can beat anyone with such gift.
Mitchell was a former champion. A 10 year reign and the only defending champions Joe has faced is Lacy and Kessler - Naz faced and beat more.

Joe's fast - but prime RJJ was faster IMO.

Lewis did not face - Bowe, Moorer, Foreman, Seldon, Wladimir... all champions during Lewis' reigns.
I just knew missing the Seldon fight would come back to haunt him.

Pedantic I know - but I wanted to make the point really of stressing the other guys... The other 4 are key guys that Lewis definately should have fought... and could have beaten him (I don't think so, but I think a claim could have been made).

I forgot old Herbie also

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:07

stujones wrote:
Raff The Frenchman wrote:LEWIS without a doubt...he face EVERYONE ! Calzaghe is on the route to be another great, but he now needs to only fight big names until he retires.
He beat Mitchell (champion) he beat Lacy (champion) he beat Kessler (champion) that is a good start, now he needs to fight : Hopkins , Wright, Dawson, Tarver, Woods etc...Its a pity because Joe has incalculable handspeed, i have never seen such fast hands at super middle, he can beat anyone with such gift.
Mitchell was a former champion. A 10 year reign and the only defending champions Joe has faced is Lacy and Kessler - Naz faced and beat more.

Joe's fast - but prime RJJ was faster IMO.

Lewis did not face - Bowe, Moorer, Foreman, Seldon, Wladimir... all champions during Lewis' reigns.

but Lewis was THE champion, and most were pretenders (i.e. Wlad WBO) & some were ducking (Bowe)

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:10

Lewis was only THE champion in November 1999...... Lewis had lost his "paper" title when Foreman was the champion.

This is how I see the HW title (THE MAN) since 1990.

Tyson
Douglas
Holyfield
Bowe
Holyfield
Moorer
Foreman
Vacant (for a period)
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis
Vacant.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:11

stujones wrote:
Raff The Frenchman wrote:LEWIS without a doubt...he face EVERYONE ! Calzaghe is on the route to be another great, but he now needs to only fight big names until he retires.
He beat Mitchell (champion) he beat Lacy (champion) he beat Kessler (champion) that is a good start, now he needs to fight : Hopkins , Wright, Dawson, Tarver, Woods etc...Its a pity because Joe has incalculable handspeed, i have never seen such fast hands at super middle, he can beat anyone with such gift.
Mitchell was a former champion. A 10 year reign and the only defending champions Joe has faced is Lacy and Kessler - Naz faced and beat more.

Joe's fast - but prime RJJ was faster IMO.

Lewis did not face - Bowe, Moorer, Foreman, Seldon, Wladimir... all champions during Lewis' reigns.

RJJ Probably have beat Joe in his Prime. Moorer was beaten by Forman and Hollyfiled (hollyfield also beat Forman) Forman said he didn't want to fight Lewis, Bowe through his belt in the bin. Wladimir was WBO champ (won from Hide) non of which massivly impact on his legitimacy as the linier and undisputed champ (not so sure about Bruce Seldon

)

However with Calzaghe you can always make the case that for years there was an obviouse fight for him to have taken vs Ottke which he never took.

Lewis Beat: Tyson, Vitali (the better) Klitschko, Hasim Rahman, Evandar Hollyfield Oliver McCall, Frank Bruno Donevan Ruddok and those are the stronger of his fights against people who were world title holders at some point. Not to mention perenial challengers like Golota, Tua and Botha. Non of the others have a record which can be held up like that.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:16

Lewis head and shoulder above everyone else.

Hatton and Calzaghe tied (very different careers -- Hatton going for the beig challenges, winning most, losing one; Calzaghe protected until recently).

Hamed fourth. Fell short went he went up to the big stage.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:16

Wladimir did not win his belt from Herbie.

Open to debate as too who is the better Klitchsko... Yes, Wladimir lost to Sanders - but Vitali lost to Byrd.

Not debating that Lewis' isn't #1 Britain - and I have him #2 of all time... Just debating that he fought EVERYONE around at the time - when clearly he didn't.

Foreman was the man in 1994/1995 - Lewis should have fought him, instead of the likes of Fortune etc. There can be no disputing this - Lewis wasn't even a belt holder.

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:21

Stu, fighting George in the 90s was always a no win situation. Smash him to pieces and it's "so what? He's a granpappy" catch one, like Moorer did, and you're a laughing stock.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:24

Forman was saying for a while he was thinking of turning pro again but waiting for lewis to retire didn't he.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:24

pundit wrote:Lewis head and shoulder above everyone else.

Hatton and Calzaghe tied (very different careers -- Hatton going for the beig challenges, winning most, losing one; Calzaghe protected until recently).

Hamed fourth. Fell short went he went up to the big stage.

Well, he did at least go the distance with Barrera.

Just playing devils advocate.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:26

Sammy Mendelson wrote:Stu, fighting George in the 90s was always a no win situation. Smash him to pieces and it's "so what? He's a granpappy" catch one, like Moorer did, and you're a laughing stock.

True, but it would have made him millions and he would have had the chance of calling the shots and calling himself the man 5 years earlier than when he could.

Imagine Lewis vs a 1995/1996 version of Bowe/Holyfield/Tyson/Moorer etc... Wow.

Sammy Mendelson · Post by **Sammy Mendelson** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:28

I do agree that we missed out on some good heavyweight fights mid-nineties.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:30

Sammy Mendelson wrote:I do agree that we missed out on some good heavyweight fights mid-nineties.

My understanding although I was a bit young to be much more than a casual fan at the time and have only read about it since, was that a lot of them were avoiding Lewis, Tyson payed him not to fight, Bowe belty bin strop. After losing to McCall he was cut out for a while is that right.

amc · Post by **amc** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:41

Old bones Ian wrote:Do you think that Lewis is being discarded by the British press?

Yeah, he's disregarded by the UK in general. He should have had a knighthood by now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:41

josh fg wrote:
Sammy Mendelson wrote:I do agree that we missed out on some good heavyweight fights mid-nineties.
My understanding although I was a bit young to be much more than a casual fan at the time and have only read about it since, was that a lot of them were avoiding Lewis, Tyson payed him not to fight, Bowe belty bin strop. After losing to McCall he was cut out for a while is that right.

Bruno and Tyson paid him step aside money - So they could make the bigger money fights (and Tyson was stripped anyway). Bruno for the twice rematch and Tyson for Vander.... Should Lewis have accepted this though?

Yes, maybe Lewis was cut out for a while after McCall - but he didn't really help himself by facing the likes of Fortune in this period.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 13 Dec 2007, 12:46

stujones wrote:
josh fg wrote:
Sammy Mendelson wrote:I do agree that we missed out on some good heavyweight fights mid-nineties.
My understanding although I was a bit young to be much more than a casual fan at the time and have only read about it since, was that a lot of them were avoiding Lewis, Tyson payed him not to fight, Bowe belty bin strop. After losing to McCall he was cut out for a while is that right.
Bruno and Tyson paid him step aside money - So they could make the bigger money fights (and Tyson was stripped anyway). Bruno for the twice rematch and Tyson for Vander.... Should Lewis have accepted this though?

Yes, maybe Lewis was cut out for a while after McCall - but he didn't really help himself by facing the likes of Fortune in this period.

Fair enough, that was about when Manny took over his carrer too wasn't it so maybe he was learning or something not that I am making excuses. By the way what the fornicate is the IBC title (just looking at the record!)

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 13 Dec 2007, 13:02

stujones wrote:
Bruno and Tyson paid him step aside money - So they could make the bigger money fights (and Tyson was stripped anyway). Bruno for the twice rematch and Tyson for Vander.... Should Lewis have accepted this though?

Yes, maybe Lewis was cut out for a while after McCall - but he didn't really help himself by facing the likes of Fortune in this period.

Although when Lewis did force the issue Bowe stuck the belt in a bin rather than face him - Lewis was then awarded the title after thrashing Ruddock and got stick for that too - 'He picked the belt up out of a bin' etc.

So he couldn't really win other than take the money and keep kncoking out who was in front of him until he got his opportunity.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 13 Dec 2007, 14:46

1. Lewis
2. Naseem
3. Hatton
4. Calzaghe until he fights B.HOP...

Tyson could rightly not fight Lewis due to the Prison Thing, and needed to sort himself out first properly.
i don't rate Lewis any better for beating an over the hill Tyson.

Bruno got done by Lewis in 93 was it?? Kudos.

but i do feel Lewis has had enough wins under his belt to be no.1

Nas was the guy who you loved to hate at the end(ish) of his career.

But i still think a few members on these boards badly under-rate him.