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Posted: 03 Jan 2008, 09:37
by greenmachine666
toppity wrote:R_jay wrote:Bushboy wrote:Rjay, echols had a bullet in his leg mate.. The consensus in any aus boxing forum will be that echols was over the hill.. In his day lucas was the king of the super middleweight division and recieved the mother of all dodgy decisions when beaten by beyer..
Stipe Drews won the belt fair and square off Branco in a good fight, it wasnt a vacant title with a blown up middleweight..
Think before you speak
Wow, what a giant dose of revisionist history.
Echols was in career best form. He'd had that big win over Charles Brewer, and was 5-0 4 KO's since the Hopkins fight, and all the fans were talking him up. I remember how he was regarded very well. Everyone thought he was going to kill Mundine, but he took Echols to school.
Lucas was the king of the division?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! Errrr....... there was this little guy called Joe Calzaghe fighting at the time. Sven Ottke was about 28-0 and the ether #1 or #2 in the division. Beyer was widely considered one of the weakest champions in boxing, and Lucas' big claim to fame was getting his ass beat by Roy Jones after Jones played 3 quarters of semi-pro basketball prior to the fight.
As for Drews, you saw the fight. Was he a "champion"?
Green's win over Lucas was a good one and he looked great in that fight, but Echols was universally regarded as a wrecking ball at the time. Thats why I take Mundine's accomplishment's over Green's.
If you use your logic when considering the Green v Drews fight, in a similar way to your logic for Mundine schooling Echols, then Green's win over drews was equally impressive. Just as Echols was at the top of his game, then in the same way so was Drews. Branco who Drews took the title off was no mug, and he was 6-0 after losing to Briggs.
No question that Mundine did school Echols, he had a well concieved game plan and stuck to it. Hit and hold, hit and hold.... It worked, and he won.
Regardless, unless Green finds some speed (not likely at his age) and a way of catching Mundine, I don't think it matters what weight they fight at Mundine will always have a better plan.
mate, i have to disagree on that...there is a huge confusion in my head...first of all, all the commentators at the Green fights are impressed by Green- s speed , fast combinations and I also see it that way, even can take a risk and say, that Danny s jab speed is in the top 3 at LHW right now and I do not see now anybody at this weight class who has as powerful Jab as him...
on the other hand you say, that Green is slow...come on! well, if he was slow against Mundine, he looks waaay faster at LHW...this time choc could not withstand the pressure and power of the Greenmachine....
opinion?
Posted: 03 Jan 2008, 22:18
by toppity
greenmachine666 wrote:toppity wrote:R_jay wrote:
Wow, what a giant dose of revisionist history.
Echols was in career best form. He'd had that big win over Charles Brewer, and was 5-0 4 KO's since the Hopkins fight, and all the fans were talking him up. I remember how he was regarded very well. Everyone thought he was going to kill Mundine, but he took Echols to school.
Lucas was the king of the division?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!! Errrr....... there was this little guy called Joe Calzaghe fighting at the time. Sven Ottke was about 28-0 and the ether #1 or #2 in the division. Beyer was widely considered one of the weakest champions in boxing, and Lucas' big claim to fame was getting his ass beat by Roy Jones after Jones played 3 quarters of semi-pro basketball prior to the fight.
As for Drews, you saw the fight. Was he a "champion"?
Green's win over Lucas was a good one and he looked great in that fight, but Echols was universally regarded as a wrecking ball at the time. Thats why I take Mundine's accomplishment's over Green's.
If you use your logic when considering the Green v Drews fight, in a similar way to your logic for Mundine schooling Echols, then Green's win over drews was equally impressive. Just as Echols was at the top of his game, then in the same way so was Drews. Branco who Drews took the title off was no mug, and he was 6-0 after losing to Briggs.
No question that Mundine did school Echols, he had a well concieved game plan and stuck to it. Hit and hold, hit and hold.... It worked, and he won.
Regardless, unless Green finds some speed (not likely at his age) and a way of catching Mundine, I don't think it matters what weight they fight at Mundine will always have a better plan.
mate, i have to disagree on that...there is a huge confusion in my head...first of all, all the commentators at the Green fights are impressed by Green- s speed , fast combinations and I also see it that way, even can take a risk and say, that Danny s jab speed is in the top 3 at LHW right now and I do not see now anybody at this weight class who has as powerful Jab as him...
on the other hand you say, that Green is slow...come on! well, if he was slow against Mundine, he looks waaay faster at LHW...this time choc could not withstand the pressure and power of the Greenmachine....
opinion?
I didn't say that Danny is slow. I said he needs to be faster to catch mundine. Mundine is slick. Probably his greatest attribute (his fans may try and say his power but I disagree). Danny looks fast at LHW, but I didn’t think he looked
much faster than when he fought at SMW. The only major unknown is how weight drained Danny was against Mundine, but thats all I have to go on.
Danny is definitely going to be more imposing at LHW, but I doubt Mundine will move up. I’ve mentioned on other threads that I think a catch-weight fight might solve the weight issue, but the downside is no title on the line.
To be honest, I’d like Danny to go to the US and try his hand over there. Leave Mundine to fight bums and has-beens here.
Posted: 03 Jan 2008, 22:32
by Marlin
toppity wrote:Leave Mundine to fight bums and has-beens here.
I couldn't agree more with this
There is no need for Danny to give Mundine a shot at his real title. Danny should move forward and find new challengers.
Posted: 05 Jan 2008, 07:28
by greenmachine666
toppity wrote:greenmachine666 wrote:toppity wrote:
If you use your logic when considering the Green v Drews fight, in a similar way to your logic for Mundine schooling Echols, then Green's win over drews was equally impressive. Just as Echols was at the top of his game, then in the same way so was Drews. Branco who Drews took the title off was no mug, and he was 6-0 after losing to Briggs.
No question that Mundine did school Echols, he had a well concieved game plan and stuck to it. Hit and hold, hit and hold.... It worked, and he won.
Regardless, unless Green finds some speed (not likely at his age) and a way of catching Mundine, I don't think it matters what weight they fight at Mundine will always have a better plan.
mate, i have to disagree on that...there is a huge confusion in my head...first of all, all the commentators at the Green fights are impressed by Green- s speed , fast combinations and I also see it that way, even can take a risk and say, that Danny s jab speed is in the top 3 at LHW right now and I do not see now anybody at this weight class who has as powerful Jab as him...
on the other hand you say, that Green is slow...come on! well, if he was slow against Mundine, he looks waaay faster at LHW...this time choc could not withstand the pressure and power of the Greenmachine....
opinion?
I didn't say that Danny is slow. I said he needs to be faster to catch mundine. Mundine is slick. Probably his greatest attribute (his fans may try and say his power but I disagree). Danny looks fast at LHW, but I didn’t think he looked
much faster than when he fought at SMW. The only major unknown is how weight drained Danny was against Mundine, but thats all I have to go on.
Danny is definitely going to be more imposing at LHW, but I doubt Mundine will move up. I’ve mentioned on other threads that I think a catch-weight fight might solve the weight issue, but the downside is no title on the line.
To be honest, I’d like Danny to go to the US and try his hand over th
ere. Leave Mundine to fight bums and has-beens here.
I agree with you on that, in the LHW division Green s speed is very impressive, which is of course a bit understandable, cause he came up from a lower division...i read somewhere, that 24 hours before the choc fight he was found on the floor of his hotelroom white like snow and dehydrated...oh, people, the only thing i try to say, that mundine may be faster, but NO ONE ON EARTH has the psychical abilities to cope with that kind of pressure(to stay focused when you know that you will be so weak going into a fight against a good fighter and 24 hrs before the fight not to have the power to stay on your legs). Anyways, whoever goes into the ring against Danny, must know, that there is no way you can break this guy down mentally...