BoxRec

Posted: **19 Dec 2007, 10:50**

well, he was for that brief time when he was milking his Contender udder. I just wish Manfredo had been exposed before.

Might take someone like Cotto, steady, patient, with deceptive handspeed and some variety when he has to show it, to beat Floyd and to grind him down.

Hope someone beats Floyd as it'll look really bad if no one could beat him between 130 and 154 pounds. Though it suggests Floyd is great, it also shows that it's not been a great era for these weight classes.

Posted: **19 Dec 2007, 14:20**

Captain Hook wrote:
rooney wrote:Ricky loves his fans so much that he's gonna defend it in the UK against Mr nondescript. How kind!

Never mind though, because none of his fans and serious UK boxing fans would like to see him take on Junior Witter, WOULD THEY!!

...and no, I'm not a Witter fan, just a real boxing fan. I can see Hatton is scared, frightened of taking on somebody with good power and reflexes!

Take a chance Rick, Junior's getting on in age now, bit like most of the big names on your record:-

Vince Philips - nearly 40 when he took on Hatton
Jose Luis Castillo - was approaching 34
Kostya Tzsyzu - was closer to 35 than 34!
Ray Oliveria - was nearly 36
Carlos Maussa - 34 and a bit

Don't forget Ricky, it's the average boxing fan in the street who PAYS your wages! or don't you really care about them?

What a daft post? He'll fight Mayweather but not Witter? Some people on here want to pull their heads out of the sand. Witter is not that great, his biggest win is a faded Corley. Get real guys...

Obviously not a daft post since there's been around 31 posts subsequent to the one I initially posted.

What I'm saying, is that Hatton's best wins have been against 'old' fighters. Junior's gettin on, hence Hatton will probably wait till he's very old before he fights him.

I believe Hatton is scared of taking on Witter as he's a lot more to lose if he lost to Junior (which I think he would). Mayweather is regarded as pound for pound the best, Ricky was very well paid and Floyd was a Welter - so losing to him is not sooo bad!

Ricky is overrated but knows how to work the fans.

The question I'm asking is:

Do Hatton fans want to see him take on Witter? - I believe they do. Will Ricky put his fans first? will he F*CK...

Posted: **19 Dec 2007, 15:33**

rooney wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:
rooney wrote:Ricky loves his fans so much that he's gonna defend it in the UK against Mr nondescript. How kind!

Never mind though, because none of his fans and serious UK boxing fans would like to see him take on Junior Witter, WOULD THEY!!

...and no, I'm not a Witter fan, just a real boxing fan. I can see Hatton is scared, frightened of taking on somebody with good power and reflexes!

Take a chance Rick, Junior's getting on in age now, bit like most of the big names on your record:-

Vince Philips - nearly 40 when he took on Hatton
Jose Luis Castillo - was approaching 34
Kostya Tzsyzu - was closer to 35 than 34!
Ray Oliveria - was nearly 36
Carlos Maussa - 34 and a bit

Don't forget Ricky, it's the average boxing fan in the street who PAYS your wages! or don't you really care about them?

What a daft post? He'll fight Mayweather but not Witter? Some people on here want to pull their heads out of the sand. Witter is not that great, his biggest win is a faded Corley. Get real guys...
Obviously not a daft post since there's been around 31 posts subsequent to the one I initially posted.

What I'm saying, is that Hatton's best wins have been against 'old' fighters. Junior's gettin on, hence Hatton will probably wait till he's very old before he fights him.

I believe Hatton is scared of taking on Witter as he's a lot more to lose if he lost to Junior (which I think he would). Mayweather is regarded as pound for pound the best, Ricky was very well paid and Floyd was a Welter - so losing to him is not sooo bad!

Ricky is overrated but knows how to work the fans.

The question I'm asking is:

Do Hatton fans want to see him take on Witter? - I believe they do. Will Ricky put his fans first? will he F*CK...

Honestly, I doubt if most of Ricky's fans know who Witter is. A good few of them strike me as band wagon types and very few with a vast knowledge of the British scene.

Posted: **19 Dec 2007, 16:38**

Hatton's next one will probably be against a blown up Lightweight. They'll want to play a little on the safe side I would have thought. Another loss next and his career is going nowhere.

Posted: **19 Dec 2007, 17:21**

nickd wrote:Hatton's next one will probably be against a blown up Lightweight. They'll want to play a little on the safe side I would have thought. Another loss next and his career is going nowhere.

Joel Casamayor would fit the bill. He said some time ago he'd go to 140 to fight Hatton. He's a lightweight , still (just!) a champ and, after his recent showing, clearly on the slide.

I wouldn't, though, object to him as Hatton's first fight back, as Casa has bags of skills (brilliant amateur), a great chin and can be as dirty as fook, so wouldn't be bullied.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 05:12**

Cannibal wrote:
rooney wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:
What a daft post? He'll fight Mayweather but not Witter? Some people on here want to pull their heads out of the sand. Witter is not that great, his biggest win is a faded Corley. Get real guys...
Obviously not a daft post since there's been around 31 posts subsequent to the one I initially posted.

What I'm saying, is that Hatton's best wins have been against 'old' fighters. Junior's gettin on, hence Hatton will probably wait till he's very old before he fights him.

I believe Hatton is scared of taking on Witter as he's a lot more to lose if he lost to Junior (which I think he would). Mayweather is regarded as pound for pound the best, Ricky was very well paid and Floyd was a Welter - so losing to him is not sooo bad!

Ricky is overrated but knows how to work the fans.

The question I'm asking is:

Do Hatton fans want to see him take on Witter? - I believe they do. Will Ricky put his fans first? will he F*CK...
Honestly, I doubt if most of Ricky's fans know who Witter is. A good few of them strike me as band wagon types and very few with a vast knowledge of the British scene.

That is probably true, and they will turn out in their thousands whoever he fights, but even if they're not knowledgeable fans, they'll still know who the TOP opponents are from reading the papers, etc. That's why there was much more of a clamour for Tszyu and Mayweather tickets than anybody else.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 06:12**

So being the beneficiary of a shocking decision is now a fundamental plank of any fighter's acceptability as an opponent for the undisputed 140 champion?

Bollacks.

They picked Urango because he was the fortunate custodian of the belt, stood still and threw wide shots.

They didn't bank on Ricky gassing after six rounds.

Urango did nothing before there fight and has done nothing since.

I gave Hatton the Maussa fight, he deserved it and it was an easy way to unify two belts. But Urango and Collazo were poorly conceived bouts.

Would he have been any less respected for defending versus M'Baye and keeping the WBA crown? Or Ben Rabah, the guy Urango 'beat' for the vacated crown, his mandatory for the IBF the first time around?

I'm not sure he would. He could have polished of Witter and followed Cotto and Mayweather up.

But you can't argue with Tyszu-Castillo-Mayweather in 30 months I guess, it negates the other discussion but please don't legitimise Urango over Witter. It can't stack up. Financially, motivation ally, morally, competitively, stylistically or because of his notoriety.

That's just bollacks.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 06:24**

Terry D wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:
STP wrote:It's really quite simple - the Americans don't know Witter.
As opposed to Juan Urango, who was known throughout the land.
He actually was amongst boxing fans

And Witter isn't?

Terry D wrote:his title fight garnered controversy. At one point there were more Urango downloads available on the torrent site than Witter ones.

You said it yourself - it's because of the controversy he generated downloads, not because of his ability. I dare say Butterbean ranks higher on downloads than Alex Povetkin, but who is the better fighter?

Terry D wrote:Urango is a stick to beat Hatton with held by people who only heard of Urango once the fight was signed.

So was he well-known, or wasn't he?

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 06:29**

verballistic wrote:
Terry D wrote:
verballistic wrote: it witter fought in america as much as urango, he would be much better known here now than he would for his current shallow resume of being chased around the ring by a since-discredited zab judah half a dozen years ago!!
You're probably going to get a bunch of replies along the lines of "What the fook do you know about what the Yanks want to see? They want Witter-Hatton!"

Urango was getting pinged in his routine fights. He had a profile there.
trying to consider a response to your post...please clarify...did you mean what the Brits want to see? i cannot speak for them, but rather have a yank perspective!! yanks know little about witter...

Watch his fight with Vivian Harris, who I'm sure you do know, and see what you think. Witter is a lot better than the Judah fight.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:13**

Terry D wrote:A Yank is telling you that Witter meant nothing then, so you tell him to watch the Harris fight, which was after the Urango one.

You and I are arguing the point over Witter and Urango in Jan 07, but the thread in general and Verballistic's comment were posed in the present tense i.e. should Hatton fight Witter NOW? Hence my response to him.

Back to us, and we are obviously polarised on Hatton issues and we'll just keep going back and forth, so we'll have to agree to disagree. But I can't let you say Witter-Corley was like Nelson-De Leon without pulling you up on it. That is quite frankly ridiculous, especially coming from a knowledgeable person such as you, and betrays a bias. Sure, we all have our favourites and those we dislike, but that single comment suggests you're bending over backwards to discredit Witter. No, it wasn't a great fight, but it was OK. Comparing it to probably the biggest stinker of all time is just daft.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:15**

Always good to see the P4P writers taking each other on. :x

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:30**

I have to bow to your greater exposure to Urango's illustrious previous life. Shame this entertaining brawler didn't turn up to fight Hatton because all I saw was a bloke who lifted iron but couldn't throw punches without a warning letter being delivered by UPS first.

Yopu make a substantiated case Terry. And it is true Hatton's fights do have a strategic element to them given the end game of Castillo and Mayweather.

However, if Collazo was selected to show Hatton could go to 147 as a tactical step, why was he scheduled to fight Lazcano as close as 5 weeks before the fight at 140lbs?

Collazo was a desperate move by a small fish promoter in a big pond full of sharks. And it nearly cost him his bright shiny little Nemo.

As I said, ultimatley Hatton's US renown and fights versus Castillo and Mayweather negated any criticism of the bouts that preceded them, ergo, the Witter factor is essentially dormant.

I would maintain however, that Witter remains a more credible opponent for Hatton than many of the names suggested or faced during Hatton's residency as a big cash cow in world boxing.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:48**

Terry D wrote:
johnswan1 wrote:Always good to see the P4P writers taking each other on. :x
Sorry John. I've little on today, all week in fact. On the other hand I've just cut and pasted my reply to David into a student inform tutorial

First time I've been called a P4P writer. How about you, Terry? Reckon you and I could do this semi final concept you're so fond of, with the winner to meet the victor of Leach v Abrams?

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:52**

Anyway, of course you're right, Terry. Witter has been in some poor fights and they've hurt his stock. However, as fine a point as it is (and I recognise the comparison in the wider sense), Witter v Corley and Judah were both better than Nelson-De Leon and also Witter has been more entertaining ON AVERAGE than Nelson ever was.

However it does irk me that fans continue to point to the Judah defeat which all but a fistic lifetime ago. Why dwell on the negatives? If you want to sell a Witter-Hatton fight, then forget about Judah and Corley and show the Harris fight, packaged with the string of highlight-reel KOs he put together between Judah and Ndou. I know they were far from world-level KOs, but if you edited them into a nice little segment, it could create a buzz in the casual fan. After all, it's only the knowledgeable fan who knows about Witter anyway, and they're already sold on the fight, so it should be easy to sway the casual fan with something like the above.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 07:57**

Terry D wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:
Terry D wrote: Sorry John. I've little on today, all week in fact. On the other hand I've just cut and pasted my reply to David into a student inform tutorial
First time I've been called a P4P writer. How about you, Terry? Reckon you and I could do this semi final concept you're so fond of, with the winner to meet the victor of Leach v Abrams?
I think John was being kind. We're early stages of the FA Cup. But we might provide more Earthy scraps than the big lads

Kind? More like sarcastic, I suspect!

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 08:03**

Terry D wrote:
DavidPayne wrote:I have to bow to your greater exposure to Urango's illustrious previous life. Shame this entertaining brawler didn't turn up to fight Hatton because all I saw was a bloke who lifted iron but couldn't throw punches without a warning letter being delivered by UPS first.

Yopu make a substantiated case Terry. And it is true Hatton's fights do have a strategic element to them given the end game of Castillo and Mayweather.

However, if Collazo was selected to show Hatton could go to 147 as a tactical step, why was he scheduled to fight Lazcano as close as 5 weeks before the fight at 140lbs?

Collazo was a desperate move by a small fish promoter in a big pond full of sharks. And it nearly cost him his bright shiny little Nemo.

As I said, ultimatley Hatton's US renown and fights versus Castillo and Mayweather negated any criticism of the bouts that preceded them, ergo, the Witter factor is essentially dormant.

I would maintain however, that Witter remains a more credible opponent for Hatton than many of the names suggested or faced during Hatton's residency as a big cash cow in world boxing.
I'm not a curmudgeon over the Witter issue. Sorry if I seemed a little brusque. On an ideal level it would be ace for British boxing if Hatton and Witter could both do a semi-final in Vegas, get the Yanks interested, and then fight here but I cannot see it unless Hatton drops down a level (not skills wise but more TV wise).

Urango was poor on the night. One great right hook to the body and that is about it. Prior to the fight he was a fantastic body puncher and could ping guys out but similar to Hatton-Floyd what he did pre-fight did not work.

Urango was always praised in commentary for his big live fan base. Again I'm not up on the numbers but he seemed to bring them to the Seminole venue so they may also have taken this into account.

He's had a few wins since but not sure what level at. Witter could do worse than take him or Castillo on for a comparative fight if Malignaggi does not come about.

I think Collazo was a two birds with one stone late move. Unfortunately I honestly know little about the in-and-outs of that side of the thing (I don't seem to be popular with the business end of any boxing situation) but they did see Collazo as a good simulation for the move up.

If the fight does come off it might be a late one. Similar to a one-off decider in much the way Duran-Leonard III was, in other words no matter who loses the fight both sides can engage in the spin!

I share your pragmatism over Witter's credentials, I realise networks are really the only power brokers in the game now and as such selling Witter isn't easy - though they wouldn't lack knockout, knockdown footage to show would they?

And I am also prepared to accept, to a degree that Hatton's matchmaking has been USA audience orientated or money orientated or both and as such Junior doesn't quite get to the top of the pile.

However, not matter what Hatton achieves in the autumn of his career - and I dont see him beating Cotto, Mayweather, DLH, Mosley or anyone else at 147 pounds - I believe a failure to fight WITTER will be forever an asterix on his records, irrespective of how easily he would have beaten him - it will remain unresolved and cast a shadow over his career.

You can't resist that conclusion all you like, but I believe it is an inevitable outcome of Hatton's reluctance to tackle him.

I enjoyed you Graham-Hatton piece.

Personally, I think Hatton needs to ease up on the weights and do more sparring. But then I dont know his regime as well as you. But too much inanimate object stuff, weight pushing - nobody could claim his timing or combination pounching hasn't regressed in the past 2-3 years.

On fight night it certainly has.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 08:05**

Terry D wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:Anyway, of course you're right, Terry. Witter has been in some poor fights and they've hurt his stock. However, as fine a point as it is (and I recognise the comparison in the wider sense), Witter v Corley and Judah were both better than Nelson-De Leon and also Witter has been more entertaining ON AVERAGE than Nelson ever was.

However it does irk me that fans continue to point to the Judah defeat which all but a fistic lifetime ago. Why dwell on the negatives? If you want to sell a Witter-Hatton fight, then forget about Judah and Corley and show the Harris fight, packaged with the string of highlight-reel KOs he put together between Judah and Ndou. I know they were far from world-level KOs, but if you edited them into a nice little segment, it could create a buzz in the casual fan. After all, it's only the knowledgeable fan who knows about Witter anyway, and they're already sold on the fight, so it should be easy to sway the casual fan with something like the above.
I hear you 100& RE Witter-Judah but to many US fans that has stuck. Similar to your first day at school, the nickname or impression you give sticks for years.

Harris is a great piece of his highlight reel. Sensational KO, authority and people know him.

I just genuinely think, objectively, that the fight will happen after Hatton's US adventure.

I was actually a big fan of Nelson and was convinced he would beat Enzo Mac. I get your point about Corley not being as bad but it was pretty grim. Stylistically a nightmare fight for your title bash.

Imagine if he boxed for it versus Harris? What would this conversation be like then?

I think the Corley fight was always about getting the title by any means, and then capitalising afterwards. (Morua was a terrible first defence, though, I have to admit)

I just wish American fans and TV would get over the Judah fight. "We don't want to see him because he had a boring fight seven and a half years ago when he was a novice" - surely the smashing KO of Harris has far, far greater currency than the Judah loss? Only as good as your last fight, and all that...

What is "Hatton's big US adventure", and when will it end? I'd be stupid to say he should fight Witter at home if he has a more lucrative offer from the States, but if this is what's on offer, then you're suggesting he'll only fight Witter when he - or both of them - are past their best.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 08:14**

If we're not careful a debate could have broken out there, be completed without any pain.

Boxrec is back baby.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 09:33**

DavidPayne wrote:If we're not careful a debate could have broken out there, be completed without any pain.

Only because Spud is no longer associated with Hatton, otherwise it would have long degenerated into you and I being idiots.

Terry, on the other hand, always fights his corner very well.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 10:27**

I think to get sparring of equivalent value to Baldomir and N'Dou, Hatton would have needed to have gone shopping and got Judah and Witter.

Neither match Floyd but they're closer matches, hit as hard, move well and are world-class operators.

Posted: **20 Dec 2007, 13:43**

Payne - to answer a point in another post - Lazcano was discussed.

Terry and everyone - you, me and everyone can criticise here and there but you forget one vital ingredient when disecting things concerning opponents for Hatton and Witter - as a matter of fact any bloody fighter.

Money the promoter has to play with in bringing in an opponent - in addition once a prospective opponent has been identified are his purse demands realistic.

Collazo is being mentioned a lot on this thread - brought in very late in the day - the reason I am sure it was him in the end was his purse demands in comparison to others.

Another thing all of you also fail to discuss which sometimes blows your theories out of the water other than the money issue - BOXING POLITICS - A promoter may not let his fighter fight on another promoters bill for whatever reason and however much money - I have noticed its a "pride" thing - I will justify this by stating - how many fighters have you seen that are fighting for say world titles that have signed for a particular promoter be allowed to fight on another promoters show unless a purse bids situation has arose?? IF A PROMOTER RELENTS AND ALLOWS HIS FIGHTER to fight then you will see "In association With" - if a promoter doesn't get that then his fighter will not be coming.

A lot of people will say b*llocks to the above - but it is important to understand when you disect why this and that fight has not happened - or why indeed a a fighter has fought X instead of Y.

Posted: **21 Dec 2007, 04:31**

Spud I didn't mention Laszcano as a question.

It's common knowledge he was signed then pulled out isn't it?

The leap to Welter was shambolic. Ricky is big enough to concede he forced through acceptance of Collazo when Graham said no.

I think he said "of course, billy big bollocks here said yes anyway".

Or words to that effect.

Posted: **21 Dec 2007, 08:11**

Re: Witter-Ndou - My interpretation of why the Yanks booed Witter at the end was because he raised his gloves above his head to showboat in the 12th round - not because the fight was dull.

Witter-N'dou was a good scrap. Witter started fast, started to lose his way after 5 or 6 rounds and Ndou came on and pushed him hard. I don't agree that the fight became dull - if you recall Witter mounted a sustained onslaught in the tenth and really dug deep when he was out of gas.

From my armchair it made for enthralling viewing.

Posted: **21 Dec 2007, 08:37**

Yeah Witter-Ndou was a good fight. I thought Witter was running out of steam but remember him stopping Ndou in his tracks late on when he was piling on the pressure.

Posted: **21 Dec 2007, 11:55**

Cannibal wrote:
rooney wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:
What a daft post? He'll fight Mayweather but not Witter? Some people on here want to pull their heads out of the sand. Witter is not that great, his biggest win is a faded Corley. Get real guys...
Obviously not a daft post since there's been around 31 posts subsequent to the one I initially posted.

What I'm saying, is that Hatton's best wins have been against 'old' fighters. Junior's gettin on, hence Hatton will probably wait till he's very old before he fights him.

I believe Hatton is scared of taking on Witter as he's a lot more to lose if he lost to Junior (which I think he would). Mayweather is regarded as pound for pound the best, Ricky was very well paid and Floyd was a Welter - so losing to him is not sooo bad!

Ricky is overrated but knows how to work the fans.

The question I'm asking is:

Do Hatton fans want to see him take on Witter? - I believe they do. Will Ricky put his fans first? will he F*CK...
Honestly, I doubt if most of Ricky's fans know who Witter is. A good few of them strike me as band wagon types and very few with a vast knowledge of the British scene.

Absolutely, utterly agree with the 'bandwagon' tag

BoxRec

Hatton ageism

Re: Hatton ageism

Re: Hatton ageism

Re: Hatton ageism

Re: Hatton ageism