BoxRec

Of that bunch, I think Michael Nunn at his absolute best would have the best shot of upsetting Jones. If Nunn had really stayed focused and left the Coke alone he would have been an all time great.

masterorder19 wrote:Nigel Benn
Michael Watson
Gerald McCellan
Steve Collins
Julian Jackson
Mike McCallum (prime)
Chris Eubank
Michael Nunn

6 rounds with Benn at his best (middleweight) is too many rounds for Jones to escape

The Watson who fought Eubank in the rematch would have taken Jones or anybody else for that matter, like a man possessed

Steve Collins was garbage, and sticks out like a sore thumb in this list, Jones would have played with him

Jackson would have been made to look very ordinary

McCallum was gifted and fluid enough to make Jones work harder than anyone he's fought so far

Eubank as a mover would cause Jones hell with his usage of angles, but he stopped moving on his super-middle reign. This is the most interesting, obviously... Eubank as the more static, muscled version trying to be just out of range all the time would get potshotted all night with Jones jumping in-and-out, but it would be damn interesting, would Jones have ended Eubanks run?

Nunn would have beaten Jones - he was better founded, never off-balance, incredibly smooth and flowing. Nunn could get near Jones on hand and foot speed and even reflexes, but was a tall, rangey lefty mover to boot with high output if needed and a tonne of right jabs to keep Jones occupied. Also the master of the left uppercut was Nunn (with equal accuracy to head or body). Too much!

Seamus wrote:Of that bunch, I think Michael Nunn at his absolute best would have the best shot of upsetting Jones. If Nunn had really stayed focused and left the Coke alone he would have been an all time great.

Gotta thing for southpaws don't you? Nunn ATG?.......... "Lights Out" exposed his chin. If you want be an ATG you need a chin.

mrbassie wrote:an old McCallum won a lot of rounds from Jones

All three judges scored it 120-107.

Roy Jones Jr wins.

The WBC judges had it 116-111, 117-110 and 119-108.

You really can't say who had the most talent unless they used that talent to win top fights. Too many excuses and too many hastily drawn conclusions. Never has the top fighter in the world done so little to get and maintain the mantle.

It would take an ATG to beat him in his prime and he has the style anmd talent to beat many top fighters at around 168...

WBC judges were not even sitting at ringside, but several rows away from it. There's a reason why judges are located as close to the ring as possible. McCallum had done nothing to win a single round.

brilliant

TigerMoth wrote:I am not biased in favor of Roy Jones, Jr.

However, I think anyone who bases Roy on his fights after Ruiz is simply silly. Those who like to over emphasize the fact that he was KO'd and imply he could never take a punch are making a determination that is impossible to make. Could the pre-Ruiz Jones take a punch?

No one will ever know.

I think it is obvious that Roy was physically depleted after losing the weight he gained to fight Ruiz. And, Roy was no longer a young man.

Certainly, Roy's legacy was most greatly impacted by Roy. Had Roy fought with less caution, against better opposition, we would know.

All we really do know is that (I don't think anyone will disagree with this) Roy had the greatest physical abilities (speed, reflexes, fitness, movement) of any other fighter - past or present.

How good was Roy? How good was his chin?

Roy's cautious style and being unwilling to take on tough opposition prevent an answer to these questions.

Roy is now old and not the fighter he once was.

He could have been the greatest - but, we will never know.

I agree with you 100%...He is one of those fighters that we will never know the outcome if he would have fought THE VERY BEST OF HIS TIME.

Nunn, Eubanks, Benn, McClellan, Michaelchewski, Jackon and Terry Norris were THE VERY BEST OF HIS ERA, but he did not fight none of them. To say that he would EASILY BEAT THOSE GUYS IS A WET DREAM for some of his fans in this forum.

elmersalsa wrote:

TigerMoth wrote:I am not biased in favor of Roy Jones, Jr.

However, I think anyone who bases Roy on his fights after Ruiz is simply silly. Those who like to over emphasize the fact that he was KO'd and imply he could never take a punch are making a determination that is impossible to make. Could the pre-Ruiz Jones take a punch?

No one will ever know.

I think it is obvious that Roy was physically depleted after losing the weight he gained to fight Ruiz. And, Roy was no longer a young man.

Certainly, Roy's legacy was most greatly impacted by Roy. Had Roy fought with less caution, against better opposition, we would know.

All we really do know is that (I don't think anyone will disagree with this) Roy had the greatest physical abilities (speed, reflexes, fitness, movement) of any other fighter - past or present.

How good was Roy? How good was his chin?

Roy's cautious style and being unwilling to take on tough opposition prevent an answer to these questions.

Roy is now old and not the fighter he once was.

He could have been the greatest - but, we will never know.

I agree with you 100%...He is one of those fighters that we will never know the outcome if he would have fought THE VERY BEST OF HIS TIME.

Nunn, Eubanks, Benn, McClellan, Michaelchewski, Jackon and Terry Norris were THE VERY BEST OF HIS ERA, but he did not fight none of them. To say that he would EASILY BEAT THOSE GUYS IS A WET DREAM for some of his fans in this forum.

if those guys are the best of his time, he still wouldn't have gotten any respect if had beaten all of them. jones would have been a clear favorite over all of them.

Eubank would have been a favourite over Jones. He just always won, one way or another.

After Jones-Toney and Eubank-Wharton, Eubank would have still been a slight favourite. And that would have been a sensational super-fight! That leaping combo Jones used to finish Pazienza, Eubank had already done those leaping combo's in his fight with Wharton. And Eubank's fights on subscription UK-TV got more viewers than Jones's fights on subscription US-TV, he also had more viewers than Jones EVER has had in Europe, Asia and Africa - Eubank would have demanded the bigger purse. There's a reason Jones was desperate to fight Eubank, and it wasn't because he admitted Eubank was the one guy who could have beaten him...

After McClellan-Jackson II, McClellan may have been a slight favourite as well.

These are the reasons for my pick of RJJ to beat them all:-

Out of those guys, I think McClellan had the best shot at Jones - tough one to call, but I think RJJ would have found a way to win on points

Jackson & Benn would have scared him with their power, but as we all know, Jones would not have traded with them (or any other fighter), so it's doubtful they'd have clocked him (though not impossible obviously). As Herol Graham proved briefly, Jackson is easily outboxed. Nigel Benn was easily outpointed by Sugar Boy Malinga TWICE (but was robbed once) & Jones is superior to both of them IMO - Jones stops Jackson by TKO & outpoints Benn.

Mike McCallum; is Roy Jones better than Sumbu Kalambay? I think so; so you know who I think wins that one - Jones on points.

Chris Eubank liked to counter punch, but so did Roy Jones & he was better at it & much quicker, so I can't see Eubank winning that one - Jones on points.

Nunn; I have explained my rationale earlier.

Steve Collins & Michael Watson would not have got near Jones; I see a unanimous decision for both.

There you go & that's from me, who isn't even RJJ's biggest fan!

Syntax Error wrote:Nigel Benn was easily outpointed by Sugar Boy Malinga TWICE (but was robbed once) & Jones is superior to both of them IMO

He just couldn't get past Malinga's long left jab either time. Roy Jones didn't have Malinga's long left jab.

Plus Benn only had four weeks to prepare for the first Malinga fight and was completely shot in the second one.

Syntax Error wrote: Mike McCallum; is Roy Jones better than Sumbu Kalambay? I think so

At what?

The slip-and-counter? No. Kalambay was about the best-ever at that, better even than James Toney. He gave Graham and McCallum boxing lessons! Guy was seriously good...

What the heck does STP stand for?

Seriously Taking Psychedelics

After reading your last two posts I think so.......

bjermaine wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

TigerMoth wrote:I am not biased in favor of Roy Jones, Jr.

However, I think anyone who bases Roy on his fights after Ruiz is simply silly. Those who like to over emphasize the fact that he was KO'd and imply he could never take a punch are making a determination that is impossible to make. Could the pre-Ruiz Jones take a punch?

No one will ever know.

I think it is obvious that Roy was physically depleted after losing the weight he gained to fight Ruiz. And, Roy was no longer a young man.

Certainly, Roy's legacy was most greatly impacted by Roy. Had Roy fought with less caution, against better opposition, we would know.

All we really do know is that (I don't think anyone will disagree with this) Roy had the greatest physical abilities (speed, reflexes, fitness, movement) of any other fighter - past or present.

How good was Roy? How good was his chin?

Roy's cautious style and being unwilling to take on tough opposition prevent an answer to these questions.

Roy is now old and not the fighter he once was.

He could have been the greatest - but, we will never know.

I agree with you 100%...He is one of those fighters that we will never know the outcome if he would have fought THE VERY BEST OF HIS TIME.

Nunn, Eubanks, Benn, McClellan, Michaelchewski, Jackon and Terry Norris were THE VERY BEST OF HIS ERA, but he did not fight none of them. To say that he would EASILY BEAT THOSE GUYS IS A WET DREAM for some of his fans in this forum.

if those guys are the best of his time, he still wouldn't have gotten any respect if had beaten all of them. jones would have been a clear favorite over all of them.

Not really...I would have give him the props that he deserved. He would have easily be in the top 20 or top 10 all-time he would have beat all these guys, but he did not. Did he ducked them?

elmersalsa wrote:

bjermaine wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: I agree with you 100%...He is one of those fighters that we will never know the outcome if he would have fought THE VERY BEST OF HIS TIME.

Nunn, Eubanks, Benn, McClellan, Michaelchewski, Jackon and Terry Norris were THE VERY BEST OF HIS ERA, but he did not fight none of them. To say that he would EASILY BEAT THOSE GUYS IS A WET DREAM for some of his fans in this forum.

if those guys are the best of his time, he still wouldn't have gotten any respect if had beaten all of them. jones would have been a clear favorite over all of them.

Not really...I would have give him the props that he deserved. He would have easily be in the top 20 or top 10 all-time he would have beat all these guys, but he did not. Did he ducked them?

i know jones had made offers to collins and benn when he was at super middle and they turned him down. the thing to remember is that jones did not spend a lot of time at super middle, only 2 yrs as champ. he moved to light heavy and was in a different weight class than most of the fighters listed here.

jones would be the favorite against all the fighters listed above, even the old-timers. foster and charles could have given him trouble but jones would have been too fast imo.

You're seeing something I ain't. Jones was knocked out by Tarver and Johnson, and while you can blame it on his weight loss from the Ruiz fight, I still stand firm to my opinions that Jones never took a genuine risk until it was too late in his career to count. Some say better late than never, but back when he was at the height of his 'powers' he should have took bigger and better fights [I mean hell, he was supposed to fight Douglas right?].

As far as Foster and Charles being the only ones to give him trouble out of a list of fighters I made [Conn, Foster, Charles and Moore], I really do disagree with you. I'll go as far to say Gene Tunney, though he never made Light Heavyweight champion was better than Jones at that weight, and his own heavyweight endeavors outshine Jones one win over a top five heavyweight [WBA strap or not, Ruiz was no Lennox Lewis or someone dangerous like Tua or Tyson who were still contenders; I'd place the win on equal ground of Harold Johnson's win over 'contender' Tom McNeeley].

Jones had the speed and power, yes, but through it all he NEVER faced anyone with the exception of Bernard Hopkins as a middleweight, who had a genuine chance at beating him.

HomicideHenry wrote:

jones would be the favorite against all the fighters listed above, even the old-timers. foster and charles could have given him trouble but jones would have been too fast imo.

You're seeing something I ain't. Jones was knocked out by Tarver and Johnson, and while you can blame it on his weight loss from the Ruiz fight, I still stand firm to my opinions that Jones never took a genuine risk until it was too late in his career to count. Some say better late than never, but back when he was at the height of his 'powers' he should have took bigger and better fights [I mean hell, he was supposed to fight Douglas right?].

As far as Foster and Charles being the only ones to give him trouble out of a list of fighters I made [Conn, Foster, Charles and Moore], I really do disagree with you. I'll go as far to say Gene Tunney, though he never made Light Heavyweight champion was better than Jones at that weight, and his own heavyweight endeavors outshine Jones one win over a top five heavyweight [WBA strap or not, Ruiz was no Lennox Lewis or someone dangerous like Tua or Tyson who were still contenders; I'd place the win on equal ground of Harold Johnson's win over 'contender' Tom McNeeley].

Jones had the speed and power, yes, but through it all he NEVER faced anyone with the exception of Bernard Hopkins as a middleweight, who had a genuine chance at beating him.

i don't think johnson even fought mcneeley. true, tunney may have accomplished more at light heavy but jones would be way too much for him if they would have fought imo. different athlete from a different era. plus tunney didn't cross the color line so this fight isn't even worth talking about. we can argue all of this stuff but none of us can prove anything. all the fighters listed here were incredible!

I think Jones would've beaten all of them, with McClellan having the best shot at beating him due largely to his power, timing and great pressure.

I think Jones really gets an unfair shake historically with people saying he fought nobodies, but if you look at the records of the guys he fought, many were actually pretty good, he just made them look like nobodies. Hell, he even made ATGs Hopkins and Toney look a tad bit ordinary, and those are guys who had kicked the shit out of their opponents before Jones, and have continued to do so long afterward.

the watson who fought mccallum would give him a run for his money, and the mccallum who fought watson would beat him.

nunn never really coped when a presence was in front of him (barkley, toney) and never really looked good when a good sharp small guy was in front of him (curry, starling).

mcclennen had heavy hands, range, timing, accuracy and wasn't exactly slow. but rjj had enough cute angles and fleet enough feet to get 4, 5 rounds by without taking the left hook downstairs and then what? mcclennan ran out of ideas against dennis milton, ralph ward, sanderline williams and nigel benn.

here in great britain, it's that rjj is actually underrated and overlooked, because we've got chris eubank who is as well-known here as muhammad ali is in america. rjj basically isn't known in britain, a crying shame because he was better than eubank. eubank was the biggest poser, but was not 'simply the best' -- that was roy jones junior.

it's chris eubank who is the one who didn't fight anybody, not bloody rjj! eubank made himself a fortune by fighting nobodies. rjj went out and fought the very best (toney, cleared up at lightheavy).

[quote=]
i know jones had made offers to collins and benn when he was at super middle and they turned him down. the thing to remember is that jones did not spend a lot of time at super middle, only 2 yrs as champ. he moved to light heavy and was in a different weight class than most of the fighters listed here.[/quote]
don king offered benn and rjj $25,000,000 each. rjj turned it down,didn't want to fight dk or something. everybody knew nigel benn, like they knew muhammad ali, think hattonx10 for 10 yrs. nigel's fights were on free tv from 87 to 95, and he really changed the face of boxing and was basically every inner city kids hero. would have been terrific. remember within a few wks of eachother rjj gave caucasian vinny pazienza that perfect 6-punch combination on uk sky and us hbo and then benn gave caucasian vincenzo nardiello that perfect 6-punch combination on uk sky and us showtime, they both fell into the ropes in almost identical finishes! benn was even a bigger name in usa than rjj at the time (to non boxing fans), because the mcclennan tragedy was main bulletin news.

mrkh wrote:the watson who fought mccallum would give him a run for his money, and the mccallum who fought watson would beat him.

nunn never really coped when a presence was in front of him (barkley, toney) and never really looked good when a good sharp small guy was in front of him (curry, starling).

mcclennen had heavy hands, range, timing, accuracy and wasn't exactly slow. but rjj had enough cute angles and fleet enough feet to get 4, 5 rounds by without taking the left hook downstairs and then what? mcclennan ran out of ideas against dennis milton, ralph ward, sanderline williams and nigel benn.

here in great britain, it's that rjj is actually underrated and overlooked, because we've got chris eubank who is as well-known here as muhammad ali is in america. rjj basically isn't known in britain, a crying shame because he was better than eubank. eubank was the biggest poser, but was not 'simply the best' -- that was roy jones junior.

it's chris eubank who is the one who didn't fight anybody, not bloody rjj! eubank made himself a fortune by fighting nobodies. rjj went out and fought the very best (toney, cleared up at lightheavy).

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Bullshit, Roy Jones, Jr did not fight NOBODY EITHER.