BoxRec

Lenny wrote:

3) KTs punch saved him.

well this is boxing, punching saving people indeed...

Tszyu was timing Zab perfectly with that straight right, which is why a lot of people claim a prime Tszyu could have been the guy to beat Floyd.

I understand the Hatton frustration but don't try to talk down Tszyu to score points for Witter

Terry D wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote: How can you denigrate Tszyu based on looking less than spectacular against Urkal when he went onto hammer Zab and completely outbox Tackie, it is a sure sign of the thing I am talking about.

W12 over Urkal = Poor form and sign he is slipping.

W KO 2 over Zab - Equals what? Zab slipped? He nailed Zab to the canvas after Urkal. Cotto could not do it that emphatically at WW.

Not bad form from Tszyu. PN, you're a good poster but I really struggle to see how Urkal heralded the end of Tszyu only for Kostya to nail Judah in his next fight (please answer without saying 'Witter had exposed Judah by that point).

My basic premise is Tyszu was in his prime in 1999 and gradually faded after that despite being able to beat good but floored competition. Tyszu gradually lost stamina and speed as we all do with age and injury. Tyszu still had his power BUT that is the last thing a fighter loses and a KO win is very deceptive in boxing. In 1996 we all expected Mike Tyson to dominate because of his KO wins.

Look at Tyszus performances and opposition 2000 onwards:

Mitchell 1 - struggled with the style and won on Shamba injurying his knee hence the rematch. I scored this to Shamba but Tyszu was landing the more hurtful shots

Ukral - struggled against a European level comp, a sign of detoriation or a tricky fighter? is it worth mentioning harris ko'd Ukral?

Judah - got badly hurt in the 1st round and caught Judah twice when Judah was sleeping. Judahs lack of concentration, weak chin were the telling factors alongside Tyszus power. This looks a sensational win BUT this isn't a demonstration of a fighter at his peak

Tackie - a shuout win for Tyszu but Tackie was gatekeeper level and anyone in the top10 would shut him out even an old Lazcanno beat Tackie

Leija - gave Tyszu problems before the stoppage

Mitchell - looked sensational and brutal BUT Mitchell lost 2 of his next 4 by stoppages before the end of round 6. Mitchell also got a gift against Ndou a few fights earlier. Again a sensational looking win that swayed most fans myself included BUT this 3 round performance against a weak old fighter isn't a demonstration of a fighter at his peak

Tyszu is still an excellent win better than any of Witter's wins BUT he was 35, nearly 36, coming off injurys, had only fought 3 rounds in 3years and never fought again after this loss possibly showing he wasn't quite as hungry as he was when he was younger.

Tszyu's stamina was there for Tackie. Like it or not Tackie is hard to shift and Tszyu boxed wonderfully in that fight. It was a complete exhibition without any of the late near-drama suffered by Hatton, a young Hatton at that, against the same man.

A struggle in Mitchell I is not bad given that many thought Mitchell had the style to beat him and the commentary for the fight is practically a coronation for a King, Mitchell, who never came.

The struggle against Urkal came prior to the biggest fight in his career, many of these fights are struggles. Oscar versus Sturm for example but in the case of Oscar it is a sign of how underrated Sturm was/is. Urkal continued contesting titles long after this fight.

How was Judah asleep? That is just pure nonsense. Judah got his flaws exposed but they were not being exposed prior to this KO. Are you seriously saying that Judah landed big shots then thought "I can have a nap now, why go for the finish when I can coast?". Again it is pure nonsense. Judah was hunted down and destroyed. It is plain to see if you watch the 1st round that Tszyu was coming into the bout. Are you seriously saying that the sole cause of the win was Judah's previously unseen narcolepsy? I guess Judah needed a wake-up call, despite getting one in round 1 and two in round 2.

There are shut outs and there is taking the piss using your skill. Tszyu rolled back to his amateur days near enough in the Tackie fight. You said Tszyu was gone after Urkal, then you realigned your position to avoid looking silly. Judah, Tackie and Mitchell II show why this was a necessary move on your part.

Leija gave him problems but did he look like a winner? Not at all. Tszyu often looks poor early in a fight. Often messy but he has a brain and works things out.

Maybe the 2nd Mitchell fight was a sign that Tszyu's bigger shots, as you admit, in fight 1 had done some damage to Mitchell. Also some of those later stoppages came at a higher weight and against reasonably decent guys like Mayweather and Williams, did you not know this, or are you deliberately misleading here?

Tszyu never fought Phillips again. Kostya does not like being smothered, bullied and backed-up. That is why he lost those two fights, that is why he did not seek rematches and in my opinion the only fight for him was a rematch and he did not fancy a rough night.

You and DG twist the story to discredit Kostya in my opinion.

A great fighter fights all comers and styles and prevails.

SRL - Duran - Whittaker - Holyfield- RJJ - Chavez

(I know Chavez hated Southpaws BUT only after fighting Whittaker)

KT was/is not a great!

So,what does that make Hattons win?

A good win and thats it.

Do you agree that a great fighter adapts and beats all styles?


DO YOU AGREE?

Terry D wrote:

DG. wrote:

Lenny wrote: well this is boxing, punching saving people indeed...

Tszyu was timing Zab perfectly with that straight right, which is why a lot of people claim a prime Tszyu could have been the guy to beat Floyd.

I understand the Hatton frustration but don't try to talk down Tszyu to score points for Witter

This is Boxing!!!!

I have NEVER seen what the great thing about KT was.

The hype was mainly to do with him being one of the best amateurs ever.

Oh, ok, just for you.

I think KT is the GOAT!

Yeah, his pro career was shite

Terry D wrote:

DG. wrote:

Terry D wrote: Tszyu's stamina was there for Tackie. Like it or not Tackie is hard to shift and Tszyu boxed wonderfully in that fight. It was a complete exhibition without any of the late near-drama suffered by Hatton, a young Hatton at that, against the same man.

A struggle in Mitchell I is not bad given that many thought Mitchell had the style to beat him and the commentary for the fight is practically a coronation for a King, Mitchell, who never came.

The struggle against Urkal came prior to the biggest fight in his career, many of these fights are struggles. Oscar versus Sturm for example but in the case of Oscar it is a sign of how underrated Sturm was/is. Urkal continued contesting titles long after this fight.

How was Judah asleep? That is just pure nonsense. Judah got his flaws exposed but they were not being exposed prior to this KO. Are you seriously saying that Judah landed big shots then thought "I can have a nap now, why go for the finish when I can coast?". Again it is pure nonsense. Judah was hunted down and destroyed. It is plain to see if you watch the 1st round that Tszyu was coming into the bout. Are you seriously saying that the sole cause of the win was Judah's previously unseen narcolepsy? I guess Judah needed a wake-up call, despite getting one in round 1 and two in round 2.

There are shut outs and there is taking the piss using your skill. Tszyu rolled back to his amateur days near enough in the Tackie fight. You said Tszyu was gone after Urkal, then you realigned your position to avoid looking silly. Judah, Tackie and Mitchell II show why this was a necessary move on your part.

Leija gave him problems but did he look like a winner? Not at all. Tszyu often looks poor early in a fight. Often messy but he has a brain and works things out.

Maybe the 2nd Mitchell fight was a sign that Tszyu's bigger shots, as you admit, in fight 1 had done some damage to Mitchell. Also some of those later stoppages came at a higher weight and against reasonably decent guys like Mayweather and Williams, did you not know this, or are you deliberately misleading here?

Tszyu never fought Phillips again. Kostya does not like being smothered, bullied and backed-up. That is why he lost those two fights, that is why he did not seek rematches and in my opinion the only fight for him was a rematch and he did not fancy a rough night.

You and DG twist the story to discredit Kostya in my opinion.

A great fighter fights all comers and styles and prevails.

SRL - Duran - Whittaker - Holyfield- RJJ - Chavez

(I know Chavez hated Southpaws BUT only after fighting Whittaker)

KT was/is not a great!

So,what does that make Hattons win?

A good win and thats it.

Do you agree that a great fighter adapts and beats all styles?


DO YOU AGREE?

Jones, fought all styles, apart from ones with a chance of winning. Sad but true most of his post-Toney career was a waste of time.

Holyfield, did not prevail against Bowe's style over 3 fights, nor Lewis' over 2. Nor Ruiz, Holy' was old but in further mitigation Ruiz was shit.

Ali completely failed to adapt to the Norton style but was great.

I'll give you Leonard and Duran but simply because Duran was nearly unbeatable in his peak and Leonard picked his times well.

Robinson struggled with pressers, still great.

Lower down you have Tszyu.

Your Witter stance is drifting into insanity if it prevents you from seeing that Tszyu was a very good fighter and was heavily favoured for this reaosn prior to the Hatton fight.

Tszyu had more achievements than you've got smillies.

Terry D wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:

Eraserhead wrote:Ricky sounded like a bad car salesman. Always had a reason or excuse why Witter shouldn't get the fight.

Saying that, though, when he did mention the fact that VIVIAN HARRIS is Witter's best win it did remind me just how much Witter has been reliant on Hatton all these years. Harris was sparked by Maussa for fook's sake. What's there to boast about there?

Obviously, Hatton-Witter SHOULD still happen nonetheless - and Witter is a damn sight better than Juan Lazcano - but Junior hasn't done himself any favours all these years. I'll give Hatton that...just.

Corley, Lynes, Kotelnik, N'Dou and Harris ain't that bad, they're not the marquee names that are on Hattons record, but in terms of ability (at the time Hatton/Witter fought them) there's not too much between them IMO if you take out PBF who whooped him bad

Castillo very good name, but he was a battle weary boxer with discipline problems who started as a featherweight. Kostya was at the tale end of his career and had been inactive

Are wins over Urango, Collazo and Maussa better than Corley, Lynes, Kotelnik, N'Dou and Harris? not IMO.

Anyone got any pre-Tszyu threads to throw up? I want to see how everyone in the world but me went against Kostya. As a big fan of Kostya I thought the Hatton fight would end in Tszyu's favour within a couple of rounds. Hatton caught by the right on the way in and with the left on the way out. I genuinely did not see a Hatton win but it seems I was in a minority of 1 in thinking that Tszyu was still a danger. Am I the only person who did not think Kostya was totally washed-up?

Against Mitchell he produced a more punishing and rounded display than in the 1st Mitchell fight and Mitchell was supposed to be in the ascendency. What did I miss? Kostya's left looked much improved and it was the same old routine, make it messy, bully the guy, get your sights, then take him out.

Kostya is too easily dismissed in my opinion. Even in the fight he landed some terrific shots. If Kostya would have retired post-Mitchell how many would honestly have said "He picked the right time"? I would have been saying he went with a lot left to offer. He was in far better form than Harris. It is completely insane to dismiss Tszyu Stu.

Captain Hook wrote:

Terry D wrote:

Chambers2 wrote: Corley, Lynes, Kotelnik, N'Dou and Harris ain't that bad, they're not the marquee names that are on Hattons record, but in terms of ability (at the time Hatton/Witter fought them) there's not too much between them IMO if you take out PBF who whooped him bad

Castillo very good name, but he was a battle weary boxer with discipline problems who started as a featherweight. Kostya was at the tale end of his career and had been inactive

Are wins over Urango, Collazo and Maussa better than Corley, Lynes, Kotelnik, N'Dou and Harris? not IMO.

Anyone got any pre-Tszyu threads to throw up? I want to see how everyone in the world but me went against Kostya. As a big fan of Kostya I thought the Hatton fight would end in Tszyu's favour within a couple of rounds. Hatton caught by the right on the way in and with the left on the way out. I genuinely did not see a Hatton win but it seems I was in a minority of 1 in thinking that Tszyu was still a danger. Am I the only person who did not think Kostya was totally washed-up?

Against Mitchell he produced a more punishing and rounded display than in the 1st Mitchell fight and Mitchell was supposed to be in the ascendency. What did I miss? Kostya's left looked much improved and it was the same old routine, make it messy, bully the guy, get your sights, then take him out.

Kostya is too easily dismissed in my opinion. Even in the fight he landed some terrific shots. If Kostya would have retired post-Mitchell how many would honestly have said "He picked the right time"? I would have been saying he went with a lot left to offer. He was in far better form than Harris. It is completely insane to dismiss Tszyu Stu.

I had Tszyu to win in 5, I remember you saying 2

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Duran didn't fight Pryor or Arguello due to money.

RJJ was one of the worst fighters for avoiding his contemporaries. I could go on all day about the fighters he should've fought, but didn't.

Tszyu was in most, if not all, respected journos top 5 p4p lists when he fought Hatton.

Terry D wrote: Tszyu's stamina was there for Tackie. Like it or not Tackie is hard to shift and Tszyu boxed wonderfully in that fight. It was a complete exhibition without any of the late near-drama suffered by Hatton, a young Hatton at that, against the same man.

A struggle in Mitchell I is not bad given that many thought Mitchell had the style to beat him and the commentary for the fight is practically a coronation for a King, Mitchell, who never came.

The struggle against Urkal came prior to the biggest fight in his career, many of these fights are struggles. Oscar versus Sturm for example but in the case of Oscar it is a sign of how underrated Sturm was/is. Urkal continued contesting titles long after this fight.

How was Judah asleep? That is just pure nonsense. Judah got his flaws exposed but they were not being exposed prior to this KO. Are you seriously saying that Judah landed big shots then thought "I can have a nap now, why go for the finish when I can coast?". Again it is pure nonsense. Judah was hunted down and destroyed. It is plain to see if you watch the 1st round that Tszyu was coming into the bout. Are you seriously saying that the sole cause of the win was Judah's previously unseen narcolepsy? I guess Judah needed a wake-up call, despite getting one in round 1 and two in round 2.

There are shut outs and there is taking the piss using your skill. Tszyu rolled back to his amateur days near enough in the Tackie fight. You said Tszyu was gone after Urkal, then you realigned your position to avoid looking silly. Judah, Tackie and Mitchell II show why this was a necessary move on your part.

Leija gave him problems but did he look like a winner? Not at all. Tszyu often looks poor early in a fight. Often messy but he has a brain and works things out.

Maybe the 2nd Mitchell fight was a sign that Tszyu's bigger shots, as you admit, in fight 1 had done some damage to Mitchell. Also some of those later stoppages came at a higher weight and against reasonably decent guys like Mayweather and Williams, did you not know this, or are you deliberately misleading here?

Tszyu never fought Phillips again. Kostya does not like being smothered, bullied and backed-up. That is why he lost those two fights, that is why he did not seek rematches and in my opinion the only fight for him was a rematch and he did not fancy a rough night.

You and DG twist the story to discredit Kostya in my opinion.

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote: Tszyu's stamina was there for Tackie. Like it or not Tackie is hard to shift and Tszyu boxed wonderfully in that fight. It was a complete exhibition without any of the late near-drama suffered by Hatton, a young Hatton at that, against the same man.

A struggle in Mitchell I is not bad given that many thought Mitchell had the style to beat him and the commentary for the fight is practically a coronation for a King, Mitchell, who never came.

The struggle against Urkal came prior to the biggest fight in his career, many of these fights are struggles. Oscar versus Sturm for example but in the case of Oscar it is a sign of how underrated Sturm was/is. Urkal continued contesting titles long after this fight.

How was Judah asleep? That is just pure nonsense. Judah got his flaws exposed but they were not being exposed prior to this KO. Are you seriously saying that Judah landed big shots then thought "I can have a nap now, why go for the finish when I can coast?". Again it is pure nonsense. Judah was hunted down and destroyed. It is plain to see if you watch the 1st round that Tszyu was coming into the bout. Are you seriously saying that the sole cause of the win was Judah's previously unseen narcolepsy? I guess Judah needed a wake-up call, despite getting one in round 1 and two in round 2.

There are shut outs and there is taking the piss using your skill. Tszyu rolled back to his amateur days near enough in the Tackie fight. You said Tszyu was gone after Urkal, then you realigned your position to avoid looking silly. Judah, Tackie and Mitchell II show why this was a necessary move on your part.

Leija gave him problems but did he look like a winner? Not at all. Tszyu often looks poor early in a fight. Often messy but he has a brain and works things out.

Maybe the 2nd Mitchell fight was a sign that Tszyu's bigger shots, as you admit, in fight 1 had done some damage to Mitchell. Also some of those later stoppages came at a higher weight and against reasonably decent guys like Mayweather and Williams, did you not know this, or are you deliberately misleading here?

Tszyu never fought Phillips again. Kostya does not like being smothered, bullied and backed-up. That is why he lost those two fights, that is why he did not seek rematches and in my opinion the only fight for him was a rematch and he did not fancy a rough night.

You and DG twist the story to discredit Kostya in my opinion.

Please don't put me in the same boat as DG. I didn't claim Tyszu to be shot but said he had slid since 1999 to gradually be a lesser fighter but still a very good 1, I wouldn't say he was shot, just not a prime fighter. Do you think that 35yo Tyszu was in his prime?

Maybe Hatton would beat any version of Tyszu but I would pick Tyszu to score a Ko in rounds 8-10 after sharing the first 6 or win a UD. What about you? Phillips fought Tyszu very differently to Hatton and won in a brutal war, its a shame Phillips became a crack addict after this fight because he could have been something

Chambers2 wrote:Isn't Hattons hero Roberto Duran??? I couldn't imagine old El Cholo running from his arch-rival

DG. wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

Terry D wrote: Tszyu's stamina was there for Tackie. Like it or not Tackie is hard to shift and Tszyu boxed wonderfully in that fight. It was a complete exhibition without any of the late near-drama suffered by Hatton, a young Hatton at that, against the same man.

A struggle in Mitchell I is not bad given that many thought Mitchell had the style to beat him and the commentary for the fight is practically a coronation for a King, Mitchell, who never came.

The struggle against Urkal came prior to the biggest fight in his career, many of these fights are struggles. Oscar versus Sturm for example but in the case of Oscar it is a sign of how underrated Sturm was/is. Urkal continued contesting titles long after this fight.

How was Judah asleep? That is just pure nonsense. Judah got his flaws exposed but they were not being exposed prior to this KO. Are you seriously saying that Judah landed big shots then thought "I can have a nap now, why go for the finish when I can coast?". Again it is pure nonsense. Judah was hunted down and destroyed. It is plain to see if you watch the 1st round that Tszyu was coming into the bout. Are you seriously saying that the sole cause of the win was Judah's previously unseen narcolepsy? I guess Judah needed a wake-up call, despite getting one in round 1 and two in round 2.

There are shut outs and there is taking the piss using your skill. Tszyu rolled back to his amateur days near enough in the Tackie fight. You said Tszyu was gone after Urkal, then you realigned your position to avoid looking silly. Judah, Tackie and Mitchell II show why this was a necessary move on your part.

Leija gave him problems but did he look like a winner? Not at all. Tszyu often looks poor early in a fight. Often messy but he has a brain and works things out.

Maybe the 2nd Mitchell fight was a sign that Tszyu's bigger shots, as you admit, in fight 1 had done some damage to Mitchell. Also some of those later stoppages came at a higher weight and against reasonably decent guys like Mayweather and Williams, did you not know this, or are you deliberately misleading here?

Tszyu never fought Phillips again. Kostya does not like being smothered, bullied and backed-up. That is why he lost those two fights, that is why he did not seek rematches and in my opinion the only fight for him was a rematch and he did not fancy a rough night.

You and DG twist the story to discredit Kostya in my opinion.

Please don't put me in the same boat as DG. I didn't claim Tyszu to be shot but said he had slid since 1999 to gradually be a lesser fighter but still a very good 1, I wouldn't say he was shot, just not a prime fighter. Do you think that 35yo Tyszu was in his prime?

Maybe Hatton would beat any version of Tyszu but I would pick Tyszu to score a Ko in rounds 8-10 after sharing the first 6 or win a UD. What about you? Phillips fought Tyszu very differently to Hatton and won in a brutal war, its a shame Phillips became a crack addict after this fight because he could have been something

Please do not align me to PN,

My point is KT was a very good fighter..WAS!

By the time he fought Hatton he was not a very good fighter anymore.

HE WAS NEVER GREAT.

plopeater wrote:

DG. wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Please don't put me in the same boat as DG. I didn't claim Tyszu to be shot but said he had slid since 1999 to gradually be a lesser fighter but still a very good 1, I wouldn't say he was shot, just not a prime fighter. Do you think that 35yo Tyszu was in his prime?

Maybe Hatton would beat any version of Tyszu but I would pick Tyszu to score a Ko in rounds 8-10 after sharing the first 6 or win a UD. What about you? Phillips fought Tyszu very differently to Hatton and won in a brutal war, its a shame Phillips became a crack addict after this fight because he could have been something

Please do not align me to PN,

My point is KT was a very good fighter..WAS!

By the time he fought Hatton he was not a very good fighter anymore.

HE WAS NEVER GREAT.

Tszyu was great, he just got beat by the p4p no 1 world class boxer Hatton.

That should not be held against him

DG. wrote:

plopeater wrote:

DG. wrote:
Please do not align me to PN,

My point is KT was a very good fighter..WAS!

By the time he fought Hatton he was not a very good fighter anymore.

HE WAS NEVER GREAT.

Tszyu was great, he just got beat by the p4p no 1 world class boxer Hatton.

That should not be held against him

Hello Shitman=Plopeater.

search wrote:Giving someone attention, gives them some sort of power. The worst thing to do to a troll is to feed it. Therefore it is imperative that the majority don't reply to this plopeater fool.

My 2 cents

search wrote:Giving someone attention, gives them some sort of power. The worst thing to do to a troll is to feed it. Therefore it is imperative that the majority don't reply to this plopeater fool.

My 2 cents

Crew2 wrote:IM NOT SUGGESTING WITTER DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR, THOUGH MAYBE HE'S TRYING 2 WITH THE 'ILL KICK HIS ARSE FOR FREE' STUFF ! AFTER A COUPLE OF WBC DEFENCES ON ITV HE'LL BE QUITE WELL KNOWN !?

Chambers2 wrote:

Crew2 wrote:IM NOT SUGGESTING WITTER DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR, THOUGH MAYBE HE'S TRYING 2 WITH THE 'ILL KICK HIS ARSE FOR FREE' STUFF ! AFTER A COUPLE OF WBC DEFENCES ON ITV HE'LL BE QUITE WELL KNOWN !?

The clock is ticking and the net is narrowing, Junior has just got to keep performing in the ring

WildWaylon wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:

Crew2 wrote:IM NOT SUGGESTING WITTER DOES SOMETHING SIMILAR, THOUGH MAYBE HE'S TRYING 2 WITH THE 'ILL KICK HIS ARSE FOR FREE' STUFF ! AFTER A COUPLE OF WBC DEFENCES ON ITV HE'LL BE QUITE WELL KNOWN !?

The clock is ticking and the net is narrowing, Junior has just got to keep performing in the ring

I agree, a good swift KO and Witter can call out Hatton in the post fight interview and quite obviously Hatton will watch it. Thats a fight I doubt Hatton will attend, he wont want an interviewer asking him again why he wont face Witter.

DG. wrote:

search wrote:Giving someone attention, gives them some sort of power. The worst thing to do to a troll is to feed it. Therefore it is imperative that the majority don't reply to this plopeater fool.

My 2 cents

Very true.

Go away plopboy.