WHATS EVERYONE'S PROBLEM??

[observer1]

Calzaghe will only get recognition from most of us British Boxing Viewers..

Not from abroad..

RJJ, Hopkins etc. All went at each other when they were all Solid and Genuine threats against each other.

Joe Cal on the other hand has never beaten an opponent Who is Dangerous and in his Prime.

Lacy was a Big Win, even though he was exposed to be nothing serious, at the time was "big"-ish.

Kessler seems a pretty big Boxing Fight, but nothing big in general.

Had he fought and beat Hopkins/RJJ at around 2000-2002 he would be been called a Legend Straight up.

But, due to Warren's Hand-Picking Skills, we will never ever know of Joe Calzaghe could have taken the best when he was at his Best.

Which im pretty sure Brit Fans will be more disappointed about than any other non-Brit Fans

[stujones]

Beat me to the point there autobarn,

calzaghe is clearly a great fighter but he is also probably the best british managed fighter of all time, especially if he does a job on the over the hill RJJ come the Autumn.

Took the title off of a faded Eubank, handpicked many defences, took the big two risks (lacy and kessler) towards the end of his era and finishes up with a Hopkins and RJJ on the slide.

masterful handling by Mr Warren but still a great fighter nonetheless.

Top post and the thing that is angering me is the lay fans are now hailing this victory as proof that he was always better than Hopkins... when for me it makes me more convinced its the other way, then if they didn't fight at all.

Some friends can obviously remember some text messages I sent 5 years ago - saying that Hopkins would beat Joe convincingly, cause they are now phoning me saying "well, how wrong did you get that".

[Twinkle Toes]

Joe Cal on the other hand has never beaten an opponent Who is Dangerous and in his Prime.

That's harsh, and so is your belittling of Lacy and Kessler - Both of whom where considered to be too much for Calzaghe by a hell of a lot of people.

[Iknowmystuff]

Joe Cal on the other hand has never beaten an opponent Who is Dangerous and in his Prime.

That's harsh, and so is your belittling of Lacy and Kessler - Both of whom where considered to be too much for Calzaghe by a hell of a lot of people.

Now see this is what I keep hearing from Calzaghe fans and i'm still puzzled by it? Who in their right mind actually thought that Lacy would go to Joe's hometown and beat him? I mean seriously, you can't keep using the convenient excuse "everybody thought Lacy would win" because that's bull. I'm an American fight fan who saw all of Lacys fights and at the time only 3 fights of Calzaghe, and I could tell from that that Lacy had NO SHOT, and if I never saw joe fight, i've seen enough of Lacey before that fight to know he was nothing more than an undisciplined slugger whose power was actually overrated.

[lefthook82]

I'll give Calzaghe credit for Kessler as he was the undisputed number 2 behind him and it was a true SM Super Fight

As for Lacy. It was after watching him against Reid that I knew he couldnt bother Calzaghe. Too slow, too obvious, too telegraphed

Calzaghe is a great fighter but I remember when Thomas Tate was being touted as a big fight by Calzaghe. Bare in mind this is a 37 year old Thomas Tate

Also. Waiting for the winner of Brewer and Echols and then fighting the loser. Perhaps Echols didnt fancy it( doubt that because it would have been a high purse but who knows)

I also remember him making real big noise about moving up to LHW once Roy Jones had beat Ruiz. But then RJJ decides to come back and he puts the breaks on the move and then continues to beat the Tocker Pudwells of this world

I also remember before beating Lacy, him fighting Evans Ashira and being at pains to prove to us he injured his left hand after the fight, letting us know that he couldnt fight Lacy at the time. Worst thing about that was that he was had an interview before then playing up the idea thta he could get injured in his next fight. I wouldnt be surprised if he ddi it on purpose

And he appears to have gotten over his fear of flying without too much trouble

Great fighter and rightly one of the best that Britain have ever produced but fighting Will McIntyre, or as Darke put it, Ceasefire in your prime is not a good look

[Twinkle Toes]

Now see this is what I keep hearing from Calzaghe fans and i'm still puzzled by it? Who in their right mind actually thought that Lacy would go to Joe's hometown and beat him? I mean seriously, you can't keep using the convenient excuse "everybody thought Lacy would win" because that's bull. I'm an American fight fan who saw all of Lacys fights and at the time only 3 fights of Calzaghe, and I could tell from that that Lacy had NO SHOT, and if I never saw joe fight, i've seen enough of Lacey before that fight to know he was nothing more than an undisciplined slugger whose power was actually overrated.

Yeah of course you did, but since you have only been here since March of this year it's kinda pointless telling us of your wisdom.

Use the search function and search the British forum for views on the Lacy/Calzaghe fight.

You'll find that a high percentage of British fight fans picked a Lacy upset.

[Spud]

Kept thinking about this thread - whilst I fully accept this forum like others are about opinions - fair do's - but Calzaghe to a point brought things on himself by in my view of years and years of facing inadequate opposition!!!

The most important question of all - is why on earth wait until your last 3 fights for decent scraps.

Kessler in my view was his first decent scrap in the "present" world class bracket - the rest whether people like it or not were good fighters bloody good fighters some of them - but they were good fighters past their best.

B*llocks to Lacy being a career defining fight - Lacy never deserved to be put in the proven world class bracket - who had he beaten.

But lets go to that Kessler fight - there are no doubts in my view Joe Calzaghe proved himself a world class operator - there has to be no denying that - the only reason why the American media get bitter and twisted about that fight not being a world class one is in my view down to them getting it so wrong about Lacy - lets face it America is left very short of world class operators who are actually orignally from America!!!

Putting a positive spin on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins - I honestly believe there can be no doubts that Calzaghe deserves his place in the "World class Club" - but there can be no denying Calzaghe's frailities were shown up by a 43 year old man who is past his best - Hopkins showed up a lot of flaws in Calzaghe.

Calzaghe has now taken the morale high ground by stating fighters have avoided him - B*llocks!!!

Said it before and will say it again - for me Joe Calzaghe will be remembered for what could have been - he is a world class fighter who in my view wasted his talent fighting b*llocks opposition.

[stujones]

Said it before and will say it again - for me Joe Calzaghe will be remembered for what could have been - he is a world class fighter who in my view wasted his talent fighting b*llocks opposition.

I disagree, I think besides Ottke and Beyer - who I think could have given him a far bigger test than maybe others think (but I would have favoured Joe) - then I don't think he wasted his talent.

Think he lived fought the best his talent could offer. He wouldn't have beaten Hopkins or Jones.... so how is that wasting his talent.

However, had he based himself in the states from the off, with US sparring - maybe (dare I say) with a tactition like Freddie Roach on bored from the off, then maybe he could have been even better... and beaten Jones and Hopkins.... we will never know that though.

They are the 4 glaring ommitions (okay he's fought Hopkins now, but not prime Hopkins).

[leforge]

He should have fought Ottke, Beyer, Reid again after first fight was close. Also he could have fought likes of Mundine, Larsen better than some of his opponents.

[stujones]

He should have fought Ottke, Beyer, Reid again after first fight was close. Also he could have fought likes of Mundine, Larsen better than some of his opponents.

Yeah, all winnable.

Actually a good point made - Joe's had 3 close fights IMO, 2 in the opinion of most - Reid, Kessler and Hopkins. Not once did Joe ever mention re-match in a press conference... and Robin was begging for one.

[observer1]

Joe Cal on the other hand has never beaten an opponent Who is Dangerous and in his Prime.

That's harsh, and so is your belittling of Lacy and Kessler - Both of whom where considered to be too much for Calzaghe by a hell of a lot of people.

Nah, im not Belittling Kessler or Lacy...

I know where you are coming from but, I just feel they were not "Accomplished" Enough for it ot be a "Super Fight".

I remember the hype how Calzaghe would be "Exposed" By Lacy / Kessler. But i personally knew Joe would Out-Class them, which he did.

Im Just Saying, As good as Joe is, and as much respect i have for him for what he has achieved, i have to say, and i think a lot of Boxing Fans will agree with me, is that Joe is a Top Class Boxer. But It's sad he has never Fought Solid Respected Boxers like RJJ, Hopkins and even Tarver when they were All in their Prime.

I mean can you imagine a Prime Calzaghe v Prime Hopkins/RJJ/Tarver ?? It would be a Super Fight, something which he has never had. "Big Fights" may be, but not "Super Fights".

Would be Bigger than "Oscar v PBF" or "Hopkins v Oscar" IMO. (Comparing Recent Fights)

Sadly we will never see that. Hopkins and RJJ Will always be remembered as Legends.

Tarver Solid, but not quite a "Legend".

Joe on the other Hand i feel has done no credit to his Talent.

I feel he will only remain a Legend amongst British fans, but not on the World Scene. Which is disappointing, since we will never know if Joe could have been a Legend on the World Scene.

I mean nobody is asking for him to Jump around weights like Hopkin did.... but he always had the capability to Jump to LH sooner...

[jeej]

The reason Joe has waited till his last couple of fights for big ones is he wants a nice payday before he bows out. I don't think he would have consciously thought a few years back "I'll wait till the very end to step up", but he now realises that this is his last chance to earn a big bit of money.

[Gray-Fox]

I personally think Joe Calzaghe is a dickhead.

Roy Jones would've played with him in his prime. It annoys me to know that Roy didn't actually get in there with him.

[Spud]

I personally think Joe Calzaghe is a dickhead.

Roy Jones would've played with him in his prime. It annoys me to know that Roy didn't actually get in there with him.

Gray Fox who are you ? I ask before someone accuses me of being you - you come onto these threads typing absolute shite - I suspect you could write your boxing knowlege on some shrivelled up hamsters bollocks!!!

Calling a fighter a d*ckhead - do you know Calzaghe personally to call him that - why can't you keep to boxing and boxing debate without calling a boxer a dickhead?? would you call him that to his face?

[Autobarn]

I give JC a lot of credit for beating Kessler and Lacy in their primes. Let's face it, no one was particularly interested in super middle when it was Calzaghe-Beyer-Ottke. Thouhg it does look bad that Joe and Ottke made 21 defences each of various titles, their title reigns overlapping through 1998-2003, without fighting each other.

The fact is things only got happening once Lacy started getting ppl interested in him and since Kessler built up a cult following with strong performances and unifying WBA and WBC titles.

Those - I feel - are JC's fights that elevate him. Before that, I don't think many of us thought Joe was going anywhere.

The win over Hopkins is good. A bit better than it looks. Hopkins is deceptive. He is all about deceptions. He gives the appearance of someone superior, but in reality he's just working on spoiling his opponent and hitting them after they make a mistake. When Calzaghe was about to get him with a proable sustained attack, he bought himself a 4-minute break.

It looks like Joe has received his invitation to the seniors' tour. RJJ, Tarver, Byrd being mentioned as potential foes.

JC's body of work will never be complete BECAUSE he left it so late. However if he's going to batter a defenseless old man - Jones -, he can at least fight someone in his prime like Pavlik as well! Pavlik will bring bigger money than anyone, but I have a feeling Joe will have to stay in boxing for two more fights, until 2009. Will he still have the desire after his RJJ cash in?


I agree, Joe and Warren never wanted a Roy Jones fight. They can say they wanted it but we all know, they sat tight. They waited for their moment. And to their credit, they won the big fights (Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins) that put Joe up there to the point that RJJ and Tarver are calling HIM out. A very planned career, and it has worked out as planned. They now get to make themselves feel better about being quiet when RJJ was peaking, by beating a rhythm on an aged Jones' head! (and make loads of money)

[Wrists]

Where is this myth that Calzaghe Kessler was close??

It was after 4 rounds an easy fight - watch the tapes

Calzaghe dominated after 4 rounds the next best guy available to fight

GET OVER IT

[johnswan1]

For the best part of 3/4 years Calzaghe has been slagged off:

'sick note'
'won't leave Wales'
'scared of fighting real opponents'.

There aint pleasing some people, here is some of the rubbish that has been spoken about some recent wins:

Lacy - novice, overhyped, punching bag (this after the majority of people on here picked Lacy to knock Calzaghe out?.

Then we get...........

Kessler - overrated, robotic, 'was disadvantaged fighting in Wales' (this after the majority of people on here picked Kessler)

Then the icing on the cake................

Hopkins - 43 year old bum, can't punch (after more and more people on here in the last week of the fight picked BHop to win).

Listen people.

Calzaghe is now 45-0 he has 20+ defences. On saturday he fought poorly, yet still beat a man who was top 3 pound for pound, a guy who had beaten some great fighters and a guy who no-one has EVER looked good against.

Joe fought poorly yet still won handily and he should be given credit for going to his opponents back yard, getting knocked down in the 1st yet still winning the fight.

As a fan I was disappointed in the fight - yet am intelligent enough to realise that a win is a win etc etc

Some people need to get a life, What happens next if Joe fights:

Pavlik - 'only a middleweight' 'raw' (although many on here beforehand will predict a Pavlik win)

Tarver - '39 year old' 'boring' (yet still managed to beat a solid fighter in Woods).

Dawson 'too green' 'exposed by Johnson' (yet again on here people were saying he was a big threat to JC'.

See my point - people just don't like Calzaghe beacuse they want to knock winners.

The guy is top 3 pound for pound right now - and the best fighter ever to come out of the UK. get over it.

Rant over

Regards

Wrists

Stop talking $hit you idiot. Calzaghe deserved all the stick aimed at him - and if people are not happy with the credit he is getting now, then tough $hit.

You say the majority of people here picked Lacy to KO Joe. That is not correct.

You say the majority of people here picked Kessler to beat Joe. That is not correct.

Why are you spouting such b0ll0x?

And what credible poster on here would refer to Hopkins as a 43 year old bum? We all knew what Hopkins is at this stage of his career - a defensive master, past his prime physically, a tough fight for anybody, but a definite weakness in that he can be outworked - just as Taylor proved when Hopkins was younger than the version Joe fought.

Joe deserved the sick note criticism for pulling out of fights. Fair enough that he went through some domestic problems, but fight fans still felt hard done by and they're entitled to that.

During Joes reign he fought mostly in the UK, and after beating an old Eubank in 1997 he went on to spend the next nine years as a heavy favourite against limited fighters.

He gets credit in my book for taking on Lacy because of the hype surrounding him at the time, and he performed fantastically on the night against a guy whom had never tasted defeat. Unfortunately some of the gloss has since vanished after lackluster performances by Lacy against Tsypko and Manfredo Jr. It can be argued that Joe ruined Lacy, just as Trinidad did many of his opponents in the past, but is it fair to now say that Lacy was overrated? I would say yes. It was a good win but Jeff Lacys name will never get mentioned anywhere near Canastota.

For me the Kessler win was much more of a career defining fight for Joe. He adapted well against the next best in the division to win comfortably at the end of the fight. As much as I was disappointed with Kesslers performance, it did prove that Joe was a level above him.

Finally, Joe took on Hopkins and won a split decision. Only Jones has beaten Hopkins clearly, and even that was cagey, and arguably came at a time where Hops had not yet entered his prime (despite his age). What Joe did to Hopkins was no better than Taylor did, but credit must be given to Calzaghe for coming back from an early setback the way he did.

You say that Joe won handily against Hopkins - did you see the same fight? Personally I had it to JC by a point, but it was a split decision, and from what I've read, it wasn't just the judges whom were split, but also a lot of the media and those ringside. An argument could certainly be made for Hopkins winning and if he had been given the decision it would have been no robbery.

So overall JCs career best wins can be summarised in order of date as follows:

Oct-1997 W UD v Eubank 45-2-2
Feb-1999 W SD v Reid 26-1-1
Mar-2006 W UD v Lacy 21-0
Nov-2007 W UD v Kessler 39-0
Apr-2008 W SD v Hopkins 48-4-1

To conclude, Calzaghe will always be in with a shout when Britains best is being debated, but at the same time, he wasted an awful lot of his prime fighting largely at home against limited opposition. He performed and pulled off the results when it mattered, it's just a shame he only took these challenges so late in his career.

[Wrists]

My point was that people say Hopkins is a 43 yr old bum as an excuse to simply run down any JC opponent - I was going for irony.

I won't get personal (unlike yourself) but maybe a more in depth look into the tone of the e-mail is required in future before you slag me off.

Wrists

PS. Majority of people on DID pick Lacy to win and many picked Kessler also

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

Where is this myth that Calzaghe Kessler was close??

It was after 4 rounds an easy fight - watch the tapes

Calzaghe dominated after 4 rounds the next best guy available to fight

GET OVER IT

I think Kessler won the early rounds, then calazage took over and Kessler lost his belief, or did Joe break his belief? I had it 8-4 or 7-5, no argument Joe won but Kessler certainly outdid him early AND hurt Joe, Joe didnt really manage to hurt KEssler accept for one time

[Wrists]

He hurt Joe - haven't disputed that.

Takaloo also hurt Santos when they fought yet got a beating.

Being hurt with a single shot does not mean you were done.

The fight was even after 4 rounds and afterwards was a walk in the park as Calzaghe is too good

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

My point was that people say Hopkins is a 43 yr old bum as an excuse to simply run down any JC opponent - I was going for irony.

I won't get personal (unlike yourself) but maybe a more in depth look into the tone of the e-mail is required in future before you slag me off.

Wrists

PS. Majority of people on DID pick Lacy to win and many picked Kessler also

This board was the exception, over 50% picked Cal over Lacy. I picked Calazage over all 3 in his big fights but knew the BHOPs fight would be close and controversal before it happened. I picked BHOPs the winner because he did better than I expected and did the better cleaner more effective work

[Iknowmystuff]

Now see this is what I keep hearing from Calzaghe fans and i'm still puzzled by it? Who in their right mind actually thought that Lacy would go to Joe's hometown and beat him? I mean seriously, you can't keep using the convenient excuse "everybody thought Lacy would win" because that's bull. I'm an American fight fan who saw all of Lacys fights and at the time only 3 fights of Calzaghe, and I could tell from that that Lacy had NO SHOT, and if I never saw joe fight, i've seen enough of Lacey before that fight to know he was nothing more than an undisciplined slugger whose power was actually overrated.

Yeah of course you did, but since you have only been here since March of this year it's kinda pointless telling us of your wisdom.

Use the search function and search the British forum for views on the Lacy/Calzaghe fight.

You'll find that a high percentage of British fight fans picked a Lacy upset.

if that's true then british fans should actually watch fighters fight before they pick him to beat someone, either that or get a clue about the sport of boxing, something I highly recommend you to do instead of depending on when someone actually signed up to a boxing message board.

[dajuggernaut]

Now see this is what I keep hearing from Calzaghe fans and i'm still puzzled by it? Who in their right mind actually thought that Lacy would go to Joe's hometown and beat him? I mean seriously, you can't keep using the convenient excuse "everybody thought Lacy would win" because that's bull. I'm an American fight fan who saw all of Lacys fights and at the time only 3 fights of Calzaghe, and I could tell from that that Lacy had NO SHOT, and if I never saw joe fight, i've seen enough of Lacey before that fight to know he was nothing more than an undisciplined slugger whose power was actually overrated.

Yeah of course you did, but since you have only been here since March of this year it's kinda pointless telling us of your wisdom.

Use the search function and search the British forum for views on the Lacy/Calzaghe fight.

You'll find that a high percentage of British fight fans picked a Lacy upset.

if that's true then british fans should actually watch fighters fight before they pick him to beat someone, either that or get a clue about the sport of boxing, something I highly recommend you to do instead of depending on when someone actually signed up to a boxing message board.

^ He also picked Douglas over Tyson.

[m1kee50]

Now see this is what I keep hearing from Calzaghe fans and i'm still puzzled by it? Who in their right mind actually thought that Lacy would go to Joe's hometown and beat him? I mean seriously, you can't keep using the convenient excuse "everybody thought Lacy would win" because that's bull. I'm an American fight fan who saw all of Lacys fights and at the time only 3 fights of Calzaghe, and I could tell from that that Lacy had NO SHOT, and if I never saw joe fight, i've seen enough of Lacey before that fight to know he was nothing more than an undisciplined slugger whose power was actually overrated.

if that's true then british fans should actually watch fighters fight before they pick him to beat someone, either that or get a clue about the sport of boxing, something I highly recommend you to do instead of depending on when someone actually signed up to a boxing message board.

^ He also picked Douglas over Tyson.

Fixed

[WildWaylon]

My problem is the fact he will happily knock back a fight with Pavlik in order to beat on the shell of Jones. It pretty much sums his career up. If Kessler and Lacy shared his approach to fighting abroad he never would have unified at SM.

Jones is enough of a risk if you want to retire unbeaten. Pavlik would be a 50/50 and too much of a risk as one of Joes final fights. Calzaghe has had risky fights, Kessler and Lacy in particular, and he doesnt need anymore in his finale. A large part of Joes success has to be credited to Warren and now Joe is reaping the benefits.