BoxRec

Lenny wrote:Lineal is overrated, especially at light heavy.
Erdei is below Dawson, Tarver, Johnson, Hopkins and Calzaghe, lineal or not

I only mentioned it because of this comment from the opening post of the thread...

DavidPayne wrote:...if Calzaghe beat Pavlik rather than Jones next would he be the Ring/Consensus/Linear champion at Super-Middle and Light-Heavyweight simultaneously and hold a victory over the man at Middleweight?

If people are going to mention the lineal title then they should get it right.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:Bernard Hopkins for me.

Pavlik is the other legacy option, but for me is not quite up there in terms of "proveness" yet... is Pavlik better than Kessler for example, both world class, both (were) more than paper champion - but neither have been particularly long reigning ones.

I said Joe needed to win decisively to prove to me, and I hope to others, that a Hopkins vs Calzaghe 2002 would go Joe's way. He didn't, but maybe a second chance is what he needs.

Plus - this lack of giving a fighter a rematch is a bit bugging.. hell, even Ottke gave Brewer a rematch. Joe's had 2/3 close shaves (Reid, Hopkins for sure, Kessler for me)... he's also had one fight end a tad controvesially (Mitchell) and one fight in which a decent opponent had far from ideal preperations (Eubank).... any rematches offered to these?

Struggling to think of any great fighter who didn't give a world class fighter a rematch in either a world title fight, or a significant fight. Is it only Lennox Lewis in recent times who has failed to give a fighter a rematch, following him BEATING the opponent. DLH, Hopkins, Lopez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Winky Wright, Mosley, Mayweather, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Alvarez, Leonard, Hagler, etc etc etc... all did - after winning their first fight.

Only one I can think off the top of my head is Tito Trinidad.

Calzaghe is too close to retirement, and why be in another dull fight with Hopkins. Bernard makes every fight he is in completely turgid.

Well, he is now talking maybe two more fights.... so why not Pavlik and Hopkins.

As for Hopkins makes EVERY fight dull - well, I suppose its what you like at the end of the day. I actually thought the Tarver fight was a good one as it was such a master class... and at least this fight had some drama (e.g. can Joe close the "gap" on the cards, can Hopkins get some second wind). I was actually quite glued to it.

Of course "early" career Hopkins was in some real good fight and fights with plenty of punches thrown.

stujones wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stujones wrote:Bernard Hopkins for me.

Pavlik is the other legacy option, but for me is not quite up there in terms of "proveness" yet... is Pavlik better than Kessler for example, both world class, both (were) more than paper champion - but neither have been particularly long reigning ones.

I said Joe needed to win decisively to prove to me, and I hope to others, that a Hopkins vs Calzaghe 2002 would go Joe's way. He didn't, but maybe a second chance is what he needs.

Plus - this lack of giving a fighter a rematch is a bit bugging.. hell, even Ottke gave Brewer a rematch. Joe's had 2/3 close shaves (Reid, Hopkins for sure, Kessler for me)... he's also had one fight end a tad controvesially (Mitchell) and one fight in which a decent opponent had far from ideal preperations (Eubank).... any rematches offered to these?

Struggling to think of any great fighter who didn't give a world class fighter a rematch in either a world title fight, or a significant fight. Is it only Lennox Lewis in recent times who has failed to give a fighter a rematch, following him BEATING the opponent. DLH, Hopkins, Lopez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Winky Wright, Mosley, Mayweather, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Alvarez, Leonard, Hagler, etc etc etc... all did - after winning their first fight.

Only one I can think off the top of my head is Tito Trinidad.

Calzaghe is too close to retirement, and why be in another dull fight with Hopkins. Bernard makes every fight he is in completely turgid.

Well, he is now talking maybe two more fights.... so why not Pavlik and Hopkins.

As for Hopkins makes EVERY fight dull - well, I suppose its what you like at the end of the day. I actually thought the Tarver fight was a good one as it was such a master class... and at least this fight had some drama (e.g. can Joe close the "gap" on the cards, can Hopkins get some second wind). I was actually quite glued to it.

Of course "early" career Hopkins was in some real good fight and fights with plenty of punches thrown.

Nah Hopkins is an awful fighter. Lets hope he retires. Joe beat him so absolutely no reason to step back in the ring with someone who just doesnt like to fight - it would just be more holding and cheating. Awful spectacle. Jones would be much more exciiting as would Pav. But Hopkins is a no no.

fist wrote:
Nah Hopkins is an awful fighter. Lets hope he retires. Joe beat him so absolutely no reason to step back in the ring with someone who just doesnt like to fight - it would just be more holding and cheating. Awful spectacle. Jones would be much more exciiting as would Pav. But Hopkins is a no no.

Just like there was no reason for Morales to fight Barrera again, just like there was no reason for Holyfield to fight Tyson again, for Bowe to fight Golota again, for Tyson to fight Rudduck again etc etc etc.

Awful fighter... sorry thats almost laughable.

stujones wrote:

fist wrote:
Nah Hopkins is an awful fighter. Lets hope he retires. Joe beat him so absolutely no reason to step back in the ring with someone who just doesnt like to fight - it would just be more holding and cheating. Awful spectacle. Jones would be much more exciiting as would Pav. But Hopkins is a no no.

Just like there was no reason for Morales to fight Barrera again, just like there was no reason for Holyfield to fight Tyson again, for Bowe to fight Golota again, for Tyson to fight Rudduck again etc etc etc.

Awful fighter... sorry thats almost laughable.

The Barrera-Morales was a great rivalry though. Holyfield-Tyson was a massive upset and the rematch a natural blockbuster. Tyson-Ruddock 1 and Golota-Bowe 1 had some exciting exchanges + controversy so these were must'see rematches.

With Calzaghe and Hopkins, neither wants a rematch. And I think the fans were victimised a bit that night. Such a shame the market is so "anyting goes" and fractured, that when the big figths are made, both men are quite far past their prime. Looking at the sheer event last Sat, it had that crackling atmosphere and massive celebrity interest that Holyfield-Bowe 1 and other massie '90s fights had. Nowadays the fights aren't equal to the events. It seems, unless you look at the super feathers and lightweights etc.

Autobarn wrote:

stujones wrote:

fist wrote:
Nah Hopkins is an awful fighter. Lets hope he retires. Joe beat him so absolutely no reason to step back in the ring with someone who just doesnt like to fight - it would just be more holding and cheating. Awful spectacle. Jones would be much more exciiting as would Pav. But Hopkins is a no no.

Just like there was no reason for Morales to fight Barrera again, just like there was no reason for Holyfield to fight Tyson again, for Bowe to fight Golota again, for Tyson to fight Rudduck again etc etc etc.

Awful fighter... sorry thats almost laughable.

The Barrera-Morales was a great rivalry though. Holyfield-Tyson was a massive upset and the rematch a natural blockbuster. Tyson-Ruddock 1 and Golota-Bowe 1 had some exciting exchanges + controversy so these were must'see rematches.

With Calzaghe and Hopkins, neither wants a rematch. And I think the fans were victimised a bit that night. Such a shame the market is so "anyting goes" and fractured, that when the big figths are made, both men are quite far past their prime. Looking at the sheer event last Sat, it had that crackling atmosphere and massive celebrity interest that Holyfield-Bowe 1 and other massie '90s fights had. Nowadays the fights aren't equal to the events. It seems, unless you look at the super feathers and lightweights etc.

I can see that no doubt, but there is still feeling of "unfinished business" with this one - just as there was with the fights you mentioned... and now DLH vs Mayweather (another fight that failed to live up to it hyping).... but there is still a sense of DLH losing the fight as opposed to Mayweather winning (which some people think happend on Saturday) and also the intrigue of Mayweather/Calzaghe under performing somewhat to their usual form..... would this happen again? I see alot of parrels... and I for one cannot wait to see DLH vs Mayweather II.

Do you think the fans will not pay to see a rematch, especially in Wales... they would love to see Joe spank the yank. Not just any old yank, but this yank who is a controvesial figure. The American fans will see Hopkins as the only realistic (at the moment) fighter for the Yanks to have one up over Calzaghe... so if it was in the states - it would still do as big numbers as it did now... don't forget it wasn't a US PPV anyway.

Perhaps its because I wasn't expecting much of a spectical that I was pleasantly surprised to be glued to this fight for the 36 minutes. Whilst it wasn't exactly edge of your seats stuff - it was gripping, kind of as DLH vs Mayweather was.

Joe has said he don't want a rematch, Hopkins has kept quiet - but then he never said post fight he wanted Taylor again, I don't think he even said he'd grant Robert Allen a rematch - immediate after the fight. Yes, he's called out Roy Jones and Calzaghe in the past - but usually he quite reflective on his future immediately after a fight - win, lose or draw.

My vote goes to Byrd. Two reasons: he still has brilliant movement, and better, he's fought quality heavies. The latter shows a courage rarely seen from JC. In fact Eubank may be the only fight that privately worried Joe.

Ibeabuchi, the Klitschkos, Tua, Holyfield, Golota and Povetkin: why should Byrd fear Calzaghe? Having a great respect for Chris, I feel exactly the same as Emerson. He spent most of his career chasing names because there was less glory in his natural division.

The very same thing happened with Mosley, who was my favourite boxer in the late-'90s/early-2000s. He jacked weights to follow the money trail, leaving his immense talent behind. If I fought professionally my weight would be 140, and at that limit there's no-one in the past twenty years I'd have rather avoided than the prime Shane. I'd fight Hatton with a month's notice for £3K; Khan for nothing.

Autobarn wrote:HBO have been hyping Pavlik and they have been hyping Joe. So maybe they want it. If they want it, things really get moving.

HBO will want to see Pavlik in a superfight sooner or later. Abraham looks the man, if he beats Miranda in Florida. However, if Abraham loses, I think Pavlik moves up to fight Joe.

I think Pavlik tries to get Joe at 168, make Joe weaken himself and try and knock him out. I don't think Joe's legs are there properly at 168 anymore.

Kessler never shook him...