BoxRec

Tony Baltazar vs Howard Davis...

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

granberry wrote:

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:That decision was a shyness for boxing; and the first of Griffith vs Fernandez, a scandal...

msc

Martin,
Can you tell me more about the Jorge Fernandez-Emile Griffith fights?
I never saw those.

Jorge Fernandez was one of the greatest Argentinian fighters of all time; see his fabulous record in http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

In his first fight against Emile Griffith, June 3, 1960, N.Y.C., the crowd believed Fernandez was with ampleness the winner, but when they know the decision, absolutely unjust (referee: Petey Della 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Jack Gordon 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Joe Agnello 6-4 [Fernandez]), the attendance exploded protesting, and during more than 15 minutes, throwed a lot of "projectiles" to the ring: chairs, bottles, tin cans, stones and others, until the police stopped the hullaballo, but the decision wasn't changed

Another worst decision:

Masasi Kudo vs Manuel Gonzalez

msc

Martin,

You know that Emile Griffith was the house fighter at Madison Square Garden during those years. He was their main drawing card.

That is why they engineered it so that Paret fought Griffith in their last fight so soon after he lost his fight with Fullmer.
They threatened to have Paret stripped of his title if he didn't defend it against Griffith on their timetable.

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

granberry wrote:

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:That decision was a shyness for boxing; and the first of Griffith vs Fernandez, a scandal...

msc

Martin,

Can you tell me more about the Jorge Fernandez-Emile Griffith fights?
I never saw those.

Jorge Fernandez was one of the greatest Argentinian fighters of all time; see his fabulous record in http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

In his first fight against Emile Griffith, June 3, 1960, N.Y.C., the crowd believed Fernandez was with ampleness the winner, but when they know the decision, absolutely unjust (referee: Petey Della 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Jack Gordon 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Joe Agnello 6-4 [Fernandez]), the attendance exploded protesting, and during more than 15 minutes, throwed a lot of "projectiles" to the ring: chairs, bottles, tin cans, stones and others, until the police stopped the hullaballo, but the decision wasn't changed

Another worst decision:
Masasi Kudo vs Manuel Gonzalez

msc

Martin,

I took a look at Jorge Fernandez’ record.

His record while he was in the US is interesting.

After his two close decision losses to Griffith,

his record in the US was an unbroken series of 10 round wins over

Stefan Redl

Denny Moyer

Denny Moyer again

Ted Wright

Isaac Logart

Cecil Shorts

Johnny Torres

and Charley Scott.

Then he had a title fight with Griffith which is described as follows on boxrec :

“Fernandez was knocked down and unable to continue from a low blow in the 9th round. Griffith, was announced as the winner, because he was ahead on the scorecards.”

What can you tell me about that fight?

I see Jorge Fernandez also lost two 12 round decisions to Carlos Monzon, for the Argentine and the South American middleweight titles.

His overall record was 114 wins (81 KO's), 10 losses and 3 draws.

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

granberry wrote:

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:That decision was a shyness for boxing; and the first of Griffith vs Fernandez, a scandal...

msc

Martin,

Can you tell me more about the Jorge Fernandez-Emile Griffith fights?

I never saw those.

Jorge Fernandez was one of the greatest Argentinian fighters of all time; see his fabulous record in http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

In his first fight against Emile Griffith, June 3, 1960, N.Y.C., the crowd believed Fernandez was with ampleness the winner, but when they know the decision, absolutely unjust (referee: Petey Della 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Jack Gordon 4-5 [Griffith], judge: Joe Agnello 6-4 [Fernandez]), the attendance exploded protesting, and during more than 15 minutes, throwed a lot of "projectiles" to the ring: chairs, bottles, tin cans, stones and others, until the police stopped the hullaballo, but the decision wasn't changed



Another worst decision:

Masasi Kudo vs Manuel Gonzalez


msc

Kudo was kind of a Japanese Ottke. He won a hometown SD to win the jr. mw title, won his first defense on another hometown SD and got an undeserved hometown MD over Gonzalez in his second defense. Gonzalez didn't have much of a chance of getting a decision in Japan and he wasn't much of a puncher, so the odds were really stacked against him.

How about these fights?:
Muhammad Ali vs Jimmy Young: What a robbery......a HIGHWAY ROBBERY!!!

Fighting Harada vs Johnny Famechon I....Another fight that have to give the judges an EXPLANATION

Emile Griffith vs Benny "Kid" Paret II: I do not know what the judges were looking at. Griffith was CLEARLY the BETTER FIGHTER in all the 3 fights.

Joe Louis vs Jersey Joe Walcott I: Say what? Louis won the fight? What a disgrace!!!

And you guys know how do I feel about Sugar Ray Robinson's "victories" over Kid Gavilan

elmersalsa wrote: Joe Louis vs Jersey Joe Walcott I: Say what? Louis won the fight? What a disgrace!!!

I'll second that.

Paret beat the hell out of Griffith in their 2nd fight.

Paret was breaking Griffith in half with a right hand to the body. He was so quick that he repeatedly stepped in from long range and landed that.
You have to keep your hands up to block head punches and Griffith was unable to defend himself against that.

In a later round Griffith stepped in while Paret had his back against the ropes and ran right into a left hook that almost took his head off. Griffith grabbed desperately at Paret to keep from going down and ended up with his arms around Paret's waist with his face pressed into Paret's waistline.

As the fight went on Griffith got more and more ragged.

When the fight was over, Don Dunphy, who was decidedly antagonistic to Paret, said as the camera showed Griffith waiting in his corner for the decision, "There's the champion in his his corner----or at least he is until they give the decision."
.

granberry wrote:
Then he had a title fight with Griffith which is described as follows on boxrec :

“Fernandez was knocked down and unable to continue from a low blow in the 9th round. Griffith, was announced as the winner, because he was ahead on the scorecards.”

What can you tell me about that fight?


His overall record was 114 wins (81 KO's), 10 losses and 3 draws.

That was the same thing that happened in the Fernandez' "LKO" against IsaacLogart: a low blow. In both occasions Jorge Fernandez must be the winner by disqualification


msc

giacomino wrote:


Another worst decision:

Masasi Kudo vs Manuel Gonzalez


msc

Kudo was kind of a Japanese Ottke. He won a hometown SD to win the jr. mw title, won his first defense on another hometown SD and got an undeserved hometown MD over Gonzalez in his second defense. Gonzalez didn't have much of a chance of getting a decision in Japan and he wasn't much of a puncher, so the odds were really stacked against him.

msc

Hiroyuki Ebihara was robbed in both of his fights against Accavallo.

Arbachakov wrote:Hiroyuki Ebihara was robbed in both of his fights against Accavallo.

Dear friend: you had a very good humor, but scarce information or this is a novelty: is the first time, after that bouts, than anyone asserts that Accavallo don't beat Ebihara (?)

What are your sources?




msc

Vinny Pazienza vs Roberto Duran....as much as I loved The Pazmanian Devil, it was Duran's night, not his.

Joe Louis vs Jersey Joe Walcott I
Joe Louis vs Arturo Godoy I


msc

From what I have read, John L. Sullivan was understandably upset and irate with a draw he recieved in France over Charlie Mitchell, as he dropped the challenger some 38 times in 60 some odd rounds. Another one I read of that sounded ludacris was one of the three fights Tommy Burns had with Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, where the referee gave O'Brien the victory or a draw, when the folks with pens at ringside gave it 18 rounds out of 20 to Burns.

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:

Arbachakov wrote:Hiroyuki Ebihara was robbed in both of his fights against Accavallo.

Dear friend: you had a very good humor, but scarce information or this is a novelty: is the first time, after that bouts, than anyone asserts that Accavallo don't beat Ebihara (?)

What are your sources?




msc

I have the second fight in full(from japanese tv).Ebihara wins by about five points.Not the worst decision i have ever seen, but all the talk involving Argentinian fighters reminded me of the bouts.

The first fight is also considered a bad decision by the japanese.I only have ten minute highlights of it sadly.

It is not usual in Argentina a robbed decision. Both fights Accavallo vs Ebihara were in Buenos Aires, CF, Argentina

The first time (July 15, 1966), Accavallo win by unanimous decision: 299-291 / 300-293 / 299-293, all for him

The second (August 12, 1967), the points were: 297-296 and 298-293 (Accavallo) and 296-294 (Ebihara)





msc

Felix Sturm vs. Orcar De La Hoya

VoiceOnTV wrote:Felix Sturm vs. Orcar De La Hoya

For a bloke who claims to watch fights for a living, you sure haven't seen too many if this is your all-time worst pick.

Holmes-Spinks II
Not the worse but....

VoiceOnTV wrote:Felix Sturm vs. Orcar De La Hoya

Sturm vs Velazco. Sturm wins a hometown split decision in Germany to take the Argentine's WBO middleweight title. Happens two fights before Sturm is "robbed" in De La Hoya fight

THE JUDGES did a con job on the Hearns vs Leonard II fight. I do not know what fight they were watching.
Hearns won CLEARLY.

The other fight was Pacquiao vs Marquez I....That fight was a draw? How can a man be down 3 times and still keeps his title? I don't get it. I must need glasses like those judges.

If Mike Tyson would have last the 12 rounds with Buster Douglas, he would have kept his title by SPLIT DECISION. At the time of the stoppage, one judge had Douglas by one point, one judge had the fight EVEN, and one judge had Tyson WINNING?

TYSON WAS GETTING HIS ASS KICKED FOR CRIPE'S SAKE. I am glad that Buster knocked him out in the 10th.

granberry wrote:Paret beat the hell out of Griffith in their 2nd fight.

Paret was breaking Griffith in half with a right hand to the body. He was so quick that he repeatedly stepped in from long range and landed that.
You have to keep your hands up to block head punches and Griffith was unable to defend himself against that.

In a later round Griffith stepped in while Paret had his back against the ropes and ran right into a left hook that almost took his head off. Griffith grabbed desperately at Paret to keep from going down and ended up with his arms around Paret's waist with his face pressed into Paret's waistline.

As the fight went on Griffith got more and more ragged.

When the fight was over, Don Dunphy, who was decidedly antagonistic to Paret, said as the camera showed Griffith waiting in his corner for the decision, "There's the champion in his his corner----or at least he is until they give the decision."
.

I got to DISAGREE with you in that one, gran

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

VoiceOnTV wrote:Felix Sturm vs. Orcar De La Hoya

For a bloke who claims to watch fights for a living, you sure haven't seen too many if this is your all-time worst pick.

Other picks were taken by the time I got on here. I don't watch fights for a living, I talk over them. I do get paid to talk over them but if that's all I did for a living I'd be skinnier than Caballero.

I'd like to also nomitate James Kinchen vs. Tommy Hearns. Two of my all time favorite fighters, but clearly Kinchen got the best of him that night. And speaking of Hearns, EVEN RAY LEONARD THOUGHT TOMMY WON THEIR SECOND FIGHT.