BoxRec

ringsider wrote: All of that blather means nothing.......of course you will never get it.

If you aren't able or rather willing to make sense of all that 'blather' as you put it then allow me to trannslate: Duran in shape wins every time. The only way Ray could beat a fighter of this level, even one jumping two weight classes and five years his senior, is to make sure he's as out of shape as possible.

^ Ouch!

HomicideHenry wrote:

He never gave Duran a rematch

When was this? He fought Duran three times? Please clarify.

He should have had a rubber match right after he beat Duran to see who really was the better fighter...Not fighting Duran 9 years later when BOTH WERE PAST THEIR VERY BEST.

Elton John wrote:

ringsider wrote: All of that blather means nothing.......of course you will never get it.

If you aren't able or rather willing to make sense of all that 'blather' as you put it then allow me to trannslate: Duran in shape wins every time. The only way Ray could beat a fighter of this level, even one jumping two weight classes and five years his senior, is to make sure he's as out of shape as possible.

That Duran in New Orleans was not the same guy that fought in Montreal. Some say that Leonard's tactics of moving and boxing did Duran, BUT, when I saw the first fight between them, Duran looked so awesome in there that to me, was NO WAY that Leonard "as the better man"...NO WAY.

TO ME, HE CAUGHT DURAN IN AN OFF NIGHT.

So leonard trying to fight Duran on the inside. Trying to brawl with duran trying to get nasty and stand his ground compared to
Leonard running and jabbing, boxing and sticking made no difference to the two fights out comes ?

You could just tell when Duran was up for the first fight by the way he'd come into the ring. he had the look of a man intent on doing some real damage like saying "I'm going to kick that cocksucker's ass all over the ring" which is what he did for certain parts of the fight. Hagler also had that same regal destroyer look when he went up against Hitman Hearns.

Duran was in embarrassing condition for the rematch as already stated in Randy Gordon's account. Kirkland laing could have pulled out an upset win.

elmersalsa wrote:

Elton John wrote:

ringsider wrote: All of that blather means nothing.......of course you will never get it.

If you aren't able or rather willing to make sense of all that 'blather' as you put it then allow me to trannslate: Duran in shape wins every time. The only way Ray could beat a fighter of this level, even one jumping two weight classes and five years his senior, is to make sure he's as out of shape as possible.

That Duran in New Orleans was not the same guy that fought in Montreal. Some say that Leonard's tactics of moving and boxing did Duran, BUT, when I saw the first fight between them, Duran looked so awesome in there that to me, was NO WAY that Leonard "as the better man"...NO WAY.

TO ME, HE CAUGHT DURAN IN AN OFF NIGHT.

That's for sure. besides being comepletely out of condition there was the psychological factor. He just couldn't get motivated for the same guy he knew he already beat.

First off, people talk about Duran-Leonard like Duran made it completly one-sided. Even stading and trading, Leonard made it a VERY close fight, and I would honestly be open to any claims that they scored it a draw or even a 1 point win for Leonard. Ray showed heart and guts in a GREAT fight. Some people just don't like Leonard and that's fine but don't re-write history.

As to the criticisms here, I agree Leonard dicked Hagler around in the early 80s regarding their purposed fight, it was very classless. For various reasons the fight didn't come off for several years when Hagler was past his best. But, the very fact that Leonard coming back from such a long layoff was able to win (and everytime I've watched the fight I watch it wanting to score it for Hagler but I just cannot) is still a very significant achievment. Added to his 1978-1982 accolades, and you have an all-time great fighter, period.

^ I agree. Leonard, the 9-5 favorite, gave the 29 year old ex-lightweight a good workout.

dempseyfire wrote:First off, people talk about Duran-Leonard like Duran made it completly one-sided. Even stading and trading, Leonard made it a VERY close fight, and I would honestly be open to any claims that they scored it a draw or even a 1 point win for Leonard. Ray showed heart and guts in a GREAT fight. Some people just don't like Leonard and that's fine but don't re-write history.

As to the criticisms here, I agree Leonard dicked Hagler around in the early 80s regarding their purposed fight, it was very classless. For various reasons the fight didn't come off for several years when Hagler was past his best. But, the very fact that Leonard coming back from such a long layoff was able to win (and everytime I've watched the fight I watch it wanting to score it for Hagler but I just cannot) is still a very significant achievment. Added to his 1978-1982 accolades, and you have an all-time great fighter, period.

Various reasons? The eye I suppose but we will agree that his eye would have prevented any future comebacks so the eye has to be taken with a grain of salt. You don't just get up one morning and decide to risk your eye five years after incurring the injury. There is only ONE reason-FEAR of being knocked stiff in brutal fashion.

I believe Leonard was 6-5 favorite in the first bout. Hell I picked Duran to win back then.

So Duran coming in out of shape against leonard in the rematch was Ray's fault ?

Duran deciding that he soo dominated the first fight was unable to get the motivation to train
hard enough for Ray. Is also Ray's fault ?

I have read plenty of people on other forums arguing that Ray won or drew that first fight. I have only a compression of the fight...2 or so rounds are missing so I can not score for myself. But what I have seen, I scored for Duran.

I agree with DF above regarding the Leonard-Hagler fight....I watch it trying to score it for Marvin.
Yet the one time I did score it for him I was not satisfied, and rewatched it (i have watched it 3 times in a row once after reading a thread on this fight, I was babysitting that night so had nothing better to do :P).

Maybe my media clouded eyes can not see the truth, beyond the dazzle of Ray Leonard.

ringsider wrote:I believe Leonard was 6-5 favorite in the first bout. Hell I picked Duran to win back then.

leonard 9-5 favorite.

Leonard was not a 9-5 favorite. You are having hallucinations.

ringsider wrote:Leonard was not a 9-5 favorite. You are having hallucinations.

Get off the weed boy...Leonard was favored 9-5. Reasons are he was bigger faster stronger younger. You name it he had every advantage. And still he lost.

He was even more heavily favored in the Norris fight, an astounding 3-1 favorite and he lost. Boy did he lose!!! I don't see how if he had every advantage known to man and even those never considered by any fighter. The only thing he Norris didn't concede is dropping to 147. Even at that weight he still put a whipping on that boy. Leonard was pretty good at losing that's the reason for the short career-to prevent too many losses.

Oh excuse me Ringsider I forgot you don't like being reminded about Terry Norris.

Robinson wrote:So Duran coming in out of shape against leonard in the rematch was Ray's fault ?

Duran deciding that he soo dominated the first fight was unable to get the motivation to train
hard enough for Ray. Is also Ray's fault ?

I have read plenty of people on other forums arguing that Ray won or drew that first fight. I have only a compression of the fight...2 or so rounds are missing so I can not score for myself. But what I have seen, I scored for Duran.

I agree with DF above regarding the Leonard-Hagler fight....I watch it trying to score it for Marvin.
Yet the one time I did score it for him I was not satisfied, and rewatched it (i have watched it 3 times in a row once after reading a thread on this fight, I was babysitting that night so had nothing better to do :P).

Maybe my media clouded eyes can not see the truth, beyond the dazzle of Ray Leonard.

Well if you read the snipit I transferred from Gordon's article it's obvious that his own corner, management, trainers knew that Ray was not capable of beating an animal like Roberto without some real help. Otherwise why was Ray already considering retirment at that point?

And why did his mgmt. not try to persuade him to take the fight before discovering Roberto was several dozen pounds overweight? he was already several pounds above his natural weight when he won the first match.

The reason is obvious: Leonard is inferior stock to someone like Roberto. He needed something to bolster his waning confidence, something that would allow him to think he had a realistic chance to defeat his nemesis.

As flr Hagler-Leonard I have seen it myself no less than 5 times and not once have I scored it for Leonard who lost by a shade. Nice try though. By the way, why do you suppose he didn't try a defense? Surely a Nunn-Leonard match would be more intriguing to the public than Leonard-Lalonde.

You are so full of your own falsehoods and delusions. If you could only be half the man that Ray Leonard was as a fighter, you might start to like yourself.

you throw out leonard's gift decisions to Hagler and Hearns and he's a mere 35-5. The judges helped make him into a legend. As I said he was a guy who needed as much help as he could get.

Thank you for the education and truth that you have revealed to us here.

Who are your favourite fighters then Elton ?

Also love the sunglasses.

dempseyfire wrote:First off, people talk about Duran-Leonard like Duran made it completly one-sided. Even stading and trading, Leonard made it a VERY close fight, and I would honestly be open to any claims that they scored it a draw or even a 1 point win for Leonard. Ray showed heart and guts in a GREAT fight. Some people just don't like Leonard and that's fine but don't re-write history.

As to the criticisms here, I agree Leonard dicked Hagler around in the early 80s regarding their purposed fight, it was very classless. For various reasons the fight didn't come off for several years when Hagler was past his best. But, the very fact that Leonard coming back from such a long layoff was able to win (and everytime I've watched the fight I watch it wanting to score it for Hagler but I just cannot) is still a very significant achievment. Added to his 1978-1982 accolades, and you have an all-time great fighter, period.

Duran vs Leonard I was not a close fight like the media implied...Watch how many punches Sugar Ray missed the entire fight. He made the fight "look close" because of his CLUTCHING AND GRABBING TACTICTS.


slug it out with Duran, my ass.

It makes me laugh when people say that Sugar Ray Leonard "slugged it" out with the great Roberto Duran.

The ONLY guys that comes in my mind THAT REALLY SLUG IT OUT WITH ROBERTO DURAN were Marvin Hagler, Hector Thompson, Iran Barkley and Esteban DeJesus (second fight)...Very few slug it out with Duran IN HIS PRIME, or see them win against him....The ones that slug it out with him and win were when Roberto was way past his prime.

That is for sure elmersalsa . In the the first Leonard/Duran fight all you heard was Dundee crying that Duran was holding his guy......geeesh if you watch the fight, the one doing all the holding was Leonard. He was holding on for dear life.

Robinson wrote:Thank you for the education and truth that you have revealed to us here.

Who are your favourite fighters then Elton ?

Also love the sunglasses.

I care only about top notch fighters like Hagler, Roy Jones Jr and will accept no fakes (Leonard)

Recently there has a been much buzz about Mayweather but he is still a bust to me. Too small

While it's true that SRL was not at his peak either when he fought Hagler or Hearns 2, it was HIS decision to delay those fights for so long. And that's what irks people (including me) - he would only fight when the conditions were perfect for HIM. From when the fights took place to the ring size to the gloves used, to the titles that were on the line.

Wouldn't every fighter kill for the chance to dictate all the terms of the fight so that they suited their own personal choices and circumstances?

I think he is a top 20 p4p candidate but he can't be considered top 10 because he only had 40 fights. However, I simply don't like the way he conducted his business outside of the ring.