Carmen Basilio -vs- Tommy Hearns - 15 Rounds...

[granberry]

None a single member of collins' group of stooges knows who Tony DeMarco is.

They are lost without their mentor, but they still make an attempt to offer the bitter hate he instructed them in.

Poor lost sheep.

granberry....I think they do know. . .

I KNOW they don't know.

And they never will.

[granberry]

[elmersalsa]

I have seen Carmen Basilio fight vs Sugar Ray Robinson and it was 2 great thrillers. You got to see those two fights to appreciate the great Carmen Basilio overall skill

He was fighting out of a crouch, and Robinson a tall guy himself, just like Thomas Hearns could not hit him. I cannot picture Hearns being more stronger than Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio pushed him against the ropes. Even though that that was not the same Robinson, he was still good enough to hold the middleweight crown. Basilio was not even 160 pounds, he weighed in 153 pounds!!! That is a 7 pound difference.

If he did those things against the so called "Greatest fighter of all-time", how we cannot picture Basilio pushing Hearns against the ropes. Both fighters throw a exceptional amount of punches, even though the HBO compubox did not exist back then.

But anyway, I could not see Hearns outboxing Basilio for long. At one point he will have to stop and trade punches, and Basilio, like Kid Gavilan were one of the greatest pressure fighters ever. For Hearns, once you apply pressure on him, the fight is over. The evidences are there when he lost to the greats Aaron Pryor (in the amateurs), Sugar Ray Leonard and Marvin Hagler. His chin FAILED HIM in the 2 biggest fights of his career. When there is lots of give and take, Hearns always lost...BIG TIME!!!

In a grueling battle at welterweight, I see Basilio stopping him in the late rounds, and let's not forget after the 5th round, like Hearns punching power was not there anymore. He will use his boxing skills afterwards, but not for long at welterweight.

AT 154 and 160 lbs, Basilio was not as quick as when he was at welter, that is why I give Hearns THE ADVANTAGE IN THOSE 2 WEIGHT CLASSES. At welterweight? Hearns is too frailish and Basilio stronger. This guy is not Pipino Cuevas, this is Carmen Basilio!!!

[BoxBuzz]

The problem with the De Marco fight in relation to a Hearns fight is that the De Marco fights are a double-edged sword. They show a different side of Basillo in a situation that would be completely unlike the one he would face in a Hearns bout.

Basillo came behind the jab against De Marco in order to force De Marco to overreach with his own shots then Carmen would step back, meaning De Marco lost some impact on his inside work and Basillo could do better work there. De Marco had his success, notably with the right hook to the body and a pair of left hooks in round four, but Basillo wrong footed him with that jabbing, and in dropping his own left to draw the right of De Marco.

By the time Basillo gave De Marco that shellacking in the tenth he had taken away the range of De Marco and was delivering more on his own shots inside an doutside. Having taken a lot away from the guy Basillo can then move in and take the next rounds on the inside.

Same with the second fight. Almost a copy of the first with Basillo doing all of the above and more in smashing De Marco up with the series of right hands that brought the end about.

Basillo's jab and step back brought him all that success with De Marco but it is not a fitting comparison to a Hearns fight. Basillo can throw his jab or double only to find Hearns hitting him with a stiff jab, even after the step back. In this fight Basillo finds himself the one coming in after not being able to out-jab his guy on the outside, and, as in my first post, this coming in leaves him open to shots, plus Hearns could also bang the left to the body, and sharp shots can get Hearns the TKO. Rendering the stamina question obsolete.

The two De Marco fights take away from, rather than adding to, the Basillo case.

Terry D Your argument holds up well if Basilio is only a practiced technician. I mean that in a very general way. Certainly then your point is well taken...he would have these natural "tendencies" as part of his tactics and it would work against him.
But I think of Carmen as bit of if not a a very cerebral warrior in terms of strategy. I think it would not take him long to simply change the tactic to fit the needed strategy. Taking into account that his skills are certainly more "gross" than refined in terms of defense. He could rely on a great heart, good chin, and an era that allowed a man to take a beating while delivering one himself.

So once again I'm back to if it was in his era he wins. But in the newer era a ref might get too queezy watching Basilio get hit. Sort of counter intuitive I suppose based on the fact that a ref's intervention is exactly what gave Basilio those two DeMarco fights. But it was getting rather extreme at that point. I just don't see Hearns being able to tough it out to the end. Much in the same way I've never imagined Tyson being able to make it past a Joe Frazier.

[Goodnight, Irene]

For the record, my idea is that Basilio would have only limited success for the bulk of the bout, before coming on late to force Hearns to wilt.

[Collins2000]

I know who he is. I just have no desire to answer you seriously as you are not to be taken seriously. Why have a giddy fit over fights that were re-issued on DVD (extensive highlights) less than a year ago and sit in my fight collection already anyway, I can make you a copy if you ask politely. Did you answer Robinson's question?

It's your option, but in general it's best to simply ignore the troll.

Our pet troll, actually. It seems his behaviour is popular with certain moderators so if we decide to toss him the occasional dry turd for him to gobble up we shouldn't be too harshly judged.

[Collins2000]

I hope my eternal optimism, good humor, and never ending willingness to engage with others toward "rehab" doesn't get on anyones nerves.

I'm not overly impressed with it, Buzz. Like someone else pointed out, it's reminiscent of battered wife syndrome more than anything else.

[Collins2000]

..........Sometimes when it comes to the cranks around here I feel like another Clint Eastwood character Dirty Harry. Go Ahead Make my day.

Hahahahahaha. And then you'll call in Anton to do what you don't have the nads to do?

[granberry]

I know who he is. I just have no desire to answer you seriously as you are not to be taken seriously. Why have a giddy fit over fights that were re-issued on DVD (extensive highlights) less than a year ago and sit in my fight collection already anyway, I can make you a copy if you ask politely. Did you answer Robinson's question?

It's your option, but in general it's best to simply ignore the troll.

Our pet troll, actually. It seems his behaviour is popular with certain moderators so if we decide to toss him the occasional dry turd for him to gobble up we shouldn't be too harshly judged.

collins has never made a post on the subject of boxing

and he NEVER will.

[Collins2000]

collins has never made a post on the subject of boxing

and he NEVER will.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave in the legendary Joe Bugner thread.

Now go back to cutting and pasting OTHER PEOPLE's work.

PS, I won't EVER put you on MY ignore list. Your posts are far too hilarious to be ignored. You are the David Icke of Boxrec.

[granberry]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave in the legendary Joe Bugner thread.

Now go back to cutting and pasting OTHER PEOPLE's work.

PS, I won't EVER put you on MY ignore list. Your posts are far too hilarious to be ignored. You are the David Icke of Boxrec.

collins has never made a post on the subject of boxing

and he NEVER will.

[Collins2000]

I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave in the legendary Joe Bugner thread.

Now go back to cutting and pasting OTHER PEOPLE's work.

PS, I won't EVER put you on MY ignore list. Your posts are far too hilarious to be ignored. You are the David Icke of Boxrec.

collins has never made a post on the subject of boxing

and he NEVER will.

That was a great post from TerryD regarding The Switch wasn't it, terap?

[BoxBuzz]

Gentleman, I suggest you go to your respective corners and have your seconds engage the "ignore" button in behalf of each of you.

And of course the audience also has that option. But then of course as Collins has mentioned you take the risk of missing the "action". If you can call it that.

However we could keep the teeming throngs posted via Cliff notes of these distractions if that is a wish of the populace.

[Collins2000]

Gentleman, I suggest you go to your respective corners and have your seconds engage the "ignore" button in behalf of each of you.

And of course the audience also has that option. But then of course as Collins has mentioned you take the risk of missing the "action". If you can call it that.

However we could keep the teeming throngs posted via Cliff notes of these distractions if that is a wish of the populace.

I know YOU will read our posts, buzz. Whether you will know anything about which we speak is unlikely though. But don't let that stop you adding your own ridiculous comments. They really do crack me up.

[pete]

I remember back when one of the big boxing mags had this as a dream fight.Their pick was Hearns,knocking Carmen down a few times along the way to stopping him.Looking at the Cuevas and Duran fights I guess you could see it that way.A short,not too fast guy against the extraordinarily tall,lightning quick,brutal punching Hearns.
Thing is Cuevas was a puncher and little else.Also appeared to be scared of Hearns.Duran was a little past it at 154 although he came back nicely against Barkley.I think the Duran of Montreal against Hearns at 147 may have turned out quite differently.
Basilio was an all time tough guy,no doubt.When a granite chin goes against a big puncher the chin usually wins.It's easy to say when Hearns his you with his speed and power funny things can happen,like with Cuevas and Duran.Thing is Basilio faced Robinson,even at 36 no slouch in the speed and power departments.I'll go with Basilio,his face looking like hamburger,on a late tko

[BoxBuzz]

Gentleman, I suggest you go to your respective corners and have your seconds engage the "ignore" button in behalf of each of you.

And of course the audience also has that option. But then of course as Collins has mentioned you take the risk of missing the "action". If you can call it that.

However we could keep the teeming throngs posted via Cliff notes of these distractions if that is a wish of the populace.

I know YOU will read our posts, buzz. Whether you will know anything about which we speak is unlikely though. But don't let that stop you adding your own ridiculous comments. They really do crack me up.

Well then it's good to know that I may have my natural wit and comedic talent to fall back on when the moderating gig goes south. Who knows with me continuing to read voraciously on this boxing subject I may be able to join historians such as yourself in a short conversation or two during your breaks, just for bragging rights.

[Grimm]

If it were in this day and time Hearns would definitely stop Basilio on cuts.

Back in the day..... Hearns by decision.

[Collins2000]

Gentleman, I suggest you go to your respective corners and have your seconds engage the "ignore" button in behalf of each of you.

And of course the audience also has that option. But then of course as Collins has mentioned you take the risk of missing the "action". If you can call it that.

However we could keep the teeming throngs posted via Cliff notes of these distractions if that is a wish of the populace.

I know YOU will read our posts, buzz. Whether you will know anything about which we speak is unlikely though. But don't let that stop you adding your own ridiculous comments. They really do crack me up.

Well then it's good to know that I may have my natural wit and comedic talent to fall back on when the moderating gig goes south. Who knows with me continuing to read voraciously on this boxing subject I may be able to join historians such as yourself in a short conversation or two during your breaks, just for bragging rights.

Well, comedic talent you have in abundance. I'm still unsure as to which bits are intentional though.

Don't insult me with the historian crack, mate. I've never said that. In fact, I hold the likes of Monte Cox and your best buddy in here in utter contempt for their ridiculous claims in that field. For me, a historian is someone who has actually published something that people have then paid for. Anyone else making the claim is usually a blowhard poseur.

[ringsider]

Hearns would stone him dead with that right hand.

[elmersalsa]

He (Hearns) may have to do it between the rounds 1 and 5.....After the 5th round, it would be all Basiio's.