BoxRec

Captain Hook wrote:It's because he's Welsh isn't it Deserter? come on, give it to me straight

So is my uncle, auntie and cousins fella! I'm also one of Joe's biggest fans so I think I'm safe
Don't worry, Lockett vs Pavlik still wasn't as bad a match-up as Vargas vs Howard Clarke

Hi Search,
Just a quick note to Say that Chris 23 is actually still in the States having gone to the fight and i'm sure will be logging in once he is home.

My point from the start was with a majority of the stick Lockett was getting from the likes of you was pretty personal for some reason or another and so people perhaps had to go a little overboard defending him.
Sometimes Boxers get breaks of luck and sometimes they get shafted, and i can assure you gary has had much more of the latter in his career.
Unfortunately for him he came up against a very good Pavlik who did a big number on him Sat.
That said I watched a lot worse title fight 30 minutes before When De Leon was taken apart in a round and he was the champion.

Pete

The old codger tour is abysmal. Mayorga, Vargas, Hopkins, Wright, Jones Jr. The fights they feature in are poor. Loud weigh ins and sloppy action on the night.

I agree, I'd rather see Pavlik knock out a top contender from his own division. I'm really hoping Kelly has time for another title defence, vs Marco Antonio Rubio. I'd be overjoyed if he was still at middleweight when Joe Greene and Quillin are ready, but by then Kelly should be a super middle by my reckoning.

Pavlik will have to make a pick soon because if he wants to get Calzaghe to move down in weight, it would have t be this year surely. Part of me wants to see him challenge Calzaghe, but a bigger part of me wants Pavlik-Abraham.

Abraham-Miranda II's result will probably have a big bearing on what Kelly does (re Abraham or Calzaghe).

Anyway, if Pavlik has defining above middleweight, it will be vs Calzaghe, Ward, Dirrell, Kessler & Froch; not the guys mentioned at the top.

There was a 'Good luck to Lockett' thread or some such which I posted on but I can't see now...did this degenerate into personal rubbish?

I'm certainly not one of the 'if you can't say anything positive, say nothing' brigade. What a load of shite that is. People would be taking liberties left, right and centre if that was the case.

Ian if you haven't got anything positive to post mate just don't bother..

Search - Chris23 is still in Vegas and is a good pal of Lockett's so perhaps we should give him a chance to get back and have his say!

Agreed Mr McNeilly, I am all for people voicing opinions and row with my best friends every week orver some kind of sport. I just hate it when someones argument is "soandso is Crap " with no justification, and it just turns into a pointless childish argument.


Pete

I thought, given what he had, that Gary conducted himself well. His tactics were curious, trying to counterpunch from distance against a 6-2 puncher or lead with single straight body shots that left him wide open.

I'd have thought a busier, in your face style would have reduced Pav's effectiveness and leverage and perhaps allowed Lockett opportunity to get hooks off to the body but its amazing how tasting power affects the best laid plans.

Despite the criticism I'm pleased Lockett can look back on his career, whether it finishes now or not, and know he had his shot and he wasn't good enough.

As someone else said he could have won a vacated belt against say, Paul Smith, claimed to be a world-champion and retired. And to my mind, his career would have been less worthy.

Good luck to Gary in whatever he chooses to do next. Personally, I'd like to see him mix it up at British title level as he's an exciting fighter and would make good matches with Rhodes, Elcock etc. Whether the remuneration is worth it for him considering his recent payday and publicised business interests is another matter.

I was also intrigued and impressed with Warren's honest, phlegmatic on-camera critique of young Mitchell.

Honesty, frankness, being candid - all welcome holidaymakers in our sport.

search wrote:fair play to deserter.

the likes of chris 23 were on the board shouting about how lockett was a steller amatuer and would "surprise" pavlik. It wasn't just me that he was having a go at.

I can assure you that if lockett won, he would have been on the board already but now that lockett got humiliated and shown up as a poor operator, he is nowhere to be seen.

I doubt we'll even see him on the boards again. Once in a blue moon poster.

Fair play to deserter for pointing this out. People will be more wide to it in future.

Search, sorry, but don't want any pats on the back from you as while I'm no fan of the 'rose-tinted' brigade, your personal attacks on Lockett were far more distasteful. From what I can remember of Chris 23's posts I wouldn't include him in the lot I was condemning as he seemed very close to Lockett while being honest enough to recognise he was really up against it - never accused regular posters of being full of sh*t etc.

tenbyblue wrote: That said I watched a lot worse title fight 30 minutes before When De Leon was taken apart in a round and he was the champion.

Pete

Fella, you have to be joking?! Just because a shoot-out ended between two massive world-class punchers ended in the first round doesn't mean it was a worse fight. By that criteria Hagler vs Hearns was a worse fight than Calzaghe vs Saiko Biko because it only lasted three rounds
Give me an exciting first-round blow-out like that over three painfully one-sided rounds any day of the week.

There was a thread entitled "Locketts over the moon" and I said "he will go into orbit when Pavlik hits him". OK it was a silly exaggeration but I just felt the job was too much for Lockett and I was making my point that Pavlik would land big on Lockett which of course he did. Chris 23 obviously a big mate of Locketts didnt like my comment and said so. Getting personal and saying you hate the man is another matter entirely and that sort of thing is unexceptable. For me the fight was predictable and I felt for Lockett who had nothing to offer and was getting hurt. The way Pavlik dealt with Taylor twice should be a good enough indicator as to how good and tough he is. We knew Lockett was a very good fighter who hadnt been beaten in six years, but at his level, which isnt World class. The rankings are often total shite making fighters look on paper better than they actually are.

The poster responsible for most of the tasteless personal abuse towards Lockett and his fans was that tosspot Simpsons who even made a sick remark about the recent suicides in Wales.

tenbyblue wrote: Gary is genuinly a really nice down to earth family guy that will do anything for his friends. He works his arse off in the gym and does plenty of local charity work. All this paid off when he was given a shot at the title (and as Pavlik said himself he was in Gary's position a couple of years ago)

I know I am going to sound like a right to**er here, but what does ANY of that have to do with earning a title shot?

I think I am a nice guy, I work hard in the gym and I give to Children in Need every year. That isn't going to earn me a world title shot is it?

And the chap who said Lockett had a punchers chance - I disagree... There is a massive gulf between world class and domestic power. Look at some of the fighters he hadn't put away.... And I am not being wise after the event.

Good post Deserter...

interesting thread. i hoped lockett had a punchers chance but it was a big ask, and to be honest, pavlik is better than i thought, yes i had seen his other fights but only ever thought of him as a heavy handed big hearted scrapper (like miranda).

but..

i was very very impressed at pavliks work, the way he picked power shots when lockett had missed were absolutely top drawer, good solid straight shots too, not of this roundhouse pub brawl nonsense.

pavlik v calzaghe now becomes interesting i dont think jos will do SM again but so long as the fight is made not more than a couple of pounds over the SM limit then i can see pavlik stopping calzaghe, i really do think a weight drained joe is there for the taking. should the fight be made at LH then i think joe outpoints him.

Captain Hook wrote:Who does Deserter mean?

I think he means that Chris_23 character.

Lockett had people that thought he had a chance?

Terry D is right. Champions need to fight contenders.

Trouble is most of the conteders are masquerading as champions for other bodies or intercontinentals or some such.

Take a division we all know 140.

If you accept Hatton is champion, he'll be fighting a leading contender in Paulie Marjiclarksextherapist.

Paulie isn't a world champion. Never has been. He is simply a leading contender.

The unfication theory is also a nonsense, a necessary evil to try and make sense of the mess but Lacy and Kessler were number one contenders at the time Calzageh fought them, their belts meant nothing. Neither of them had beaten Calzaghe, or even Ottke, before they faced JC - neither could claim to be anything other than a leading contender.

All Calzaghe did, really, despite the gates, was what Hagler did when he beat Mugabi.

The rival champion thing is a complete distraction.

Ageing demographics of boxing fans is the fuel for the senior tour. Boxing needs to engage younger fans, but its self fulfilling prophecy, old fighters are recycled to sell PPV, because they're a safe bet, while ever they're in the news we're not focussing on the up and comers.

Which is why fighters like David Haye and to a certain extent Pavlik are important. They take risks, fight regularly and dont entertain silly curiosity fights.

Pavlik could easily fight Wright, then Tito and then Segio Mora. But he's more likely to face Rubio, Calzaghe and Abraham which are all more important contests than the more financially rewarding of popular but ageing has beens listed prior.

Frustrates me.

But then a lot does these days.

Well, sometimes you can have two great fighters holding rival belts - as when Brian Mitchell and Azumah Nelson held versions of the super featherweight crown. It's just a reality of the sport. You can go from that extreme, to another. For instance today's super featherweights: Arthur and Fana/Baloyi holding belts, among others.

With Calzaghe, things were always cloudy. For instance, he might have been the senior champion, but why was he picking opponents that weren't in any serious top 10 for much of his title reign, while Kessler was only fighting top 10 foes in title fights?

banjo wrote:The poster responsible for most of the tasteless personal abuse towards Lockett and his fans was that tosspot Simpsons who even made a sick remark about the recent suicides in Wales.

Yes, I remember that one. But how come people keep saying Simpsons is Search? Simpsons often put tasteless remarks on this forum, but is that enough evidence to say he is the same guy as Search? I seem to remember Simpsons posts were even worse then what Search has put on this forum.

scrap iron wrote:

banjo wrote:The poster responsible for most of the tasteless personal abuse towards Lockett and his fans was that tosspot Simpsons who even made a sick remark about the recent suicides in Wales.

Yes, I remember that one. But how come people keep saying Simpsons is Search? Simpsons often put tasteless remarks on this forum, but is that enough evidence to say he is the same guy as Search? I seem to remember Simpsons posts were even worse then what Search has put on this forum.

Why on earth Boxrec tolerates these arseholes, I've no idea.

scrap iron wrote:

banjo wrote:The poster responsible for most of the tasteless personal abuse towards Lockett and his fans was that tosspot Simpsons who even made a sick remark about the recent suicides in Wales.

Yes, I remember that one. But how come people keep saying Simpsons is Search? Simpsons often put tasteless remarks on this forum, but is that enough evidence to say he is the same guy as Search? I seem to remember Simpsons posts were even worse then what Search has put on this forum.

search = Lirva.

scrap iron wrote:

banjo wrote:The poster responsible for most of the tasteless personal abuse towards Lockett and his fans was that tosspot Simpsons who even made a sick remark about the recent suicides in Wales.

Yes, I remember that one. But how come people keep saying Simpsons is Search? Simpsons often put tasteless remarks on this forum, but is that enough evidence to say he is the same guy as Search? I seem to remember Simpsons posts were even worse then what Search has put on this forum.

I think it's a kind of faith in humanity. Many of us find it hard to believe that there could actually be two such planks around and therefore must be the same person.

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:Well to be honest Deserter, I think the main thing that upset the hardcore Lockett fans, was when the posts went beyond boxing and more personal.

I didn't think Lockett was worthy of the chance, indeed I had a little debate with Terry in that I would have rather seen Trinidad and Mayorga in there..... and now I feel somewhat worthy. However, some of the other posters used terms like "I hate Lockett for gettng this chance".... which I do think is a bit much. Was it his fault he was #1 with the WBO - nope, was it his fault Duddy got a cut - nope.

Now as an outsider, I do think there was an air of a shambles with the whole thing - I mean idea that a notorious cutter like Lockett didn't have Mick Williamson or Benny King (or even Powell) on board seemed rediculous. However, I hope there is a logically explanation for this and I am sure Gary will note himself there was somethings that could have been done better.

I honestly hope that the Lockett fans, and even Gary himself, will respect the views of those who just stuck to the boxing - when it went a bit personal (like using the term hate) for him just getting the shot.... then, yes I can see why his fans would be upset.

Fair points Stu, I certainly wouldn't condone the likes of Search.

Hello, well I'm one of the fans above it would seem. I would just like to say I completely respect genuine posters and decent people, for example CiscoKid sent me dvd's of Pavlik fights (which Gary watched) for which we are VERY grateful. Captain Hook is a journalist who was also really decent. There were a few including Anthony Farnell who sent "good luck" messages - that is all fantastic regardless of your opinion.

BUT if you look back through the posts the ones I responded to I saw a lot of really nasty unnecessary comments that went WAY beyond boxing and gave no respect to Gary for having the balls to get in with Pavlik.

We all knew it was a huge task and if people said "it would be great if he pulled it off but I don't think he will" then thats fine and dandy but there were some people who didn't stick to the boxing.

You might have seen us (about 20 of us) standing and singing with a Welsh flag infront of about 5-10,000 Pavlik fans. We got a really hostile reception with people screaming at us and abusing us big time, before and after the fight, it wasn't pretty I can tell you. They were shouting at us telling us to "eat s***" "f*** you man" etc etc... We were shouting and singing so much I now sound like Al Pacino so at least someone achieved their lifetime ambition on the weekend..

Like a few people said, there is no denying Gary had the power to trouble him but at that level its landing the clean shot without getting hurt that is the hard bit. I think its also very noteworthy what Pavlik said at the post fight press conference; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEfLe3h4-is

Look, he got in there and gave it a crack and his best wasn't good enough but when he's old and grey he'll know he did get his chance and had his name in lights which is more than a lot of people get in a lifetime.

We had a beer with Woodhall and Rawlings afterwards who were nice guys to by the way - Woodhall gave Gary a hug and told him not to retire and told him he was the best in this country by the way. Also you should have seen FW crooning around the hotel in his white chino's on the Friday night - atrocious

Its nothing to do with being Welsh/British or Patriotic it's to do with being respectful. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I sometimes think on forums people get a bit carried away. People like Search and a few others whose names escape me, make it personal and not boxing related. To my way of thinking the same goes for any boxer being abused...

On a lighter note check this out, I recorded this on the Boardwalk and it made me smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j95zGD9QkDw

If Gary had footwork like the guy in the second video he may have been ok:-)

DavidPayne wrote:If Gary had footwork like the guy in the second video he may have been ok:-)

Old Tony certainly had the moves....