BoxRec

HomicideHenry wrote:There was more than one fight between Greb, where Tunney seemed to be on the bad end of the stick but still got the decisions, for one. Another, yes yes yes was the infamous 'color line' excuse...but for me, though you can make a solid argument for Tunney being an ATG 175 pounder, he could have been the greatest at that weight; he could have fought Battling Siki, or Paul Berlenbach, or McTigue and others, and he could have beaten them all...but no, he had a fight with Johnny Risko and maybe one or two other unknown heavies and then beat an old washed up Jack Dempsey, almost lost to Dempsey in the rematch [the long count] and then had one more defense against a man nobody gave two shits about and retired.

Personally I dont see how a handful of fights at Heavyweight makes you locked for a top 10 spot in the ATG Heavyweight ranks, but guys like Bert Sugar and others do...it would be like ranking Michael Spinks or Roy Jones as an ATG Heavyweight, when really what they did wasnt the amazingly spectacular feat that they tried to make it out to be.

Ambling Alp wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:There was more than one fight between Greb, where Tunney seemed to be on the bad end of the stick but still got the decisions, for one. Another, yes yes yes was the infamous 'color line' excuse...but for me, though you can make a solid argument for Tunney being an ATG 175 pounder, he could have been the greatest at that weight; he could have fought Battling Siki, or Paul Berlenbach, or McTigue and others, and he could have beaten them all...but no, he had a fight with Johnny Risko and maybe one or two other unknown heavies and then beat an old washed up Jack Dempsey, almost lost to Dempsey in the rematch [the long count] and then had one more defense against a man nobody gave two shits about and retired.

Personally I dont see how a handful of fights at Heavyweight makes you locked for a top 10 spot in the ATG Heavyweight ranks, but guys like Bert Sugar and others do...it would be like ranking Michael Spinks or Roy Jones as an ATG Heavyweight, when really what they did wasnt the amazingly spectacular feat that they tried to make it out to be.

Almost total nonsense.
-Tunney won 2 decisions against Greb that almost everyone thought he deserved. He lost one (his only loss in a long career). The other two were no-decisions. In one he is given a newspaper decision and the other is considered a draw. Saying that he was on the "bad end of the stick but still got the decisions" is simply not true.

-Color line? Tunney didn't use that as some sort of excuse for not fighting blacks. Most of the good fighters in his weight class at the time were white. Kid Norkfolk was the only serious lightheavyweight contender that was black. Wills was the only black contender before Tunney won the heavyweight title.
After Tunney won the title, Wills was no longer a serious contender. He agreed to defend the title against the winner of Sharkey-Dempsey. Dempsey won and so Tunney fought and beat him again.
Dempsey was old? He was only 31 the first time they fought, and 32 the second time. Tunney himself was only two years younger.
Of course Demspey was rusty for the first fight, but it's doubtful many other fighters would have beaten Demdpey so badly.
Demspey had the tuneup fight against Sharkey just three months before the second fight. Of course Dempsey wasn't as good as he used to be but it's doubtful that still is a very good win for Tunney.

-Tunney then defended the title against Tom Heeney, who was the top contender at the time. After that, there was no other contenders that stood out. Tunney had no real reason to continue fighting so he retired.

-Ducking Siki or McTigue? Ridiculaus. Tunney couldn't get a title fight with either one of them. He would have beaten either one of them easily. Nor could he get one against Carpentier or Levinsky. Tunney was a pro 11 years while other lesser fighters got title shots before he got a title shot. He did beat Carpentier and Levinsky in non-title fights.

-His career at heavyweight was much more extensive than either Spinks or Jones. He had atleast 20 fights against heavyweights and never lost. He has to be one of the Top 15 heavyweights of All-Time.

-He is one of the Top 5 lightheavyweights of All-Time. (Though he never not got a title shot at this weight.
-It's mindboggling that a guy who had to wait 11 years for a title shot, beat 5 Hall of Famers, gave the guy he beat for the title a rematch, beat the top contender, gets accused of this crap. Unbelievable.

He is one of the Top 20 fighters of All-Time.

undisputedly_pat wrote:The fact his wins over Dempsey were contested over a scant 10 rounds (was surprised, and find that strange for an apparent World's Heavyweight Title bout)?