BoxRec

THEBUTCH wrote:That's rubbish about "every" Hennessy boxer having to play the rankings game.

Mick got David Walker two good title shots(EBU and British) when there were more deserving challengers ahead.

Anyway, I go with those saying Froch should take the small end of the purse if that's what it takes to get Taylor in the ring with him.

It's sounding a bit iffy now, Di Bella appears to want to have very little to do with Carl, but Hennessy got Eastman his crack at Hopkins when there were posters on this very forum swearing blind the fight would never happen. We'll see....

It is easy to get the like of Walker a title shot because he had no chance of winning, Eastmen had to wait a long time for his shot and again Hopkins never viewed him as a threat.
They will not take a fight like Froch because he is a risky fight for little reward. Unless Hennessy can make it financially attractive or force the sanctioning bodies hand it won't happen

The difference between Warren handling Froch's affairs and Hennessy, is Warren will create the impression all is going well and a lot of fans buy in to it. Hennessy's style of promotion is not as glitzy but his stable tend to go the genuine route and fans with a better knowledge of what's going on out there can appreciate the difference.

Calzaghe hasn't always been the draw he is now, it's taken Warren over a decade to reach the current position. Far too long!

Hennessy is always quick to be shot down in flames before waiting to seeing what transpires.

The Taylor match up sounds doubtful at the moment, come September or whenever the deadline date is, let's see what happens.

I find the situation unreal, Inkin and Taylor turning down eliminators and title shots for vacant belts. Carl and Mick need to pressure the WBC into putting someone else forward asap if Taylor's going to fcuk about with Lacy. Maybe look into getting a voluntary shot at Kesslers title if the WBC won't further the situation.

CHAMPION: VACANT
WON TITLE:
LAST DEFENCE:
LAST COMPULSORY: March 24, 2007 by Kessler
WBA CHAMPION: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark)
IBF CHAMPION: Lucien Bute (Canada)
WBO CHAMPION: Joe Calzaghe (GB)
Contenders:
WBC INT. CHAMPION: Dennis Inkin (Russia)

1 .- Carl Froch (GB) BBBoC/COMM
2 .- Jermain Taylor (US)
3 .- Dennis Inkin (Russia) INTL
4 .- Jean Pascal (Haiti/Canada) LATINO/NABF
5 .- Jurgen Brahmer (Germany)
6 .- Karo Murat (Germany) EBU
7 .- Andre Ward (US)
8 .- Fulgencio Zuñiga (Colombia)
9 .- Markus Beyer (Germany)
10 .- Alejandro Berrio (Colombia)


Inkins already proved that he's a prick and couldn't be trusted to tie his shoelaces.
Taylors not ready for the Frochster yet, so he's taking the easy option.
Pascal's being molly-coddled because he's not been looking impressive.
Next in line are the Germans, going up against the Germans in a purse bids situation is never enviable, but would they allow their boys in with Monster that is Carl Froch?

It's a sorry state of affairs :(

Carl needs to win the vacant title against whoever, hope that ITV and Showtime are still interested in him and then start packing out the Nottingham arena and luring the BIG names over.... or travel if neccesary.

THEBUTCH wrote:The difference between Warren handling Froch's affairs and Hennessy, is Warren will create the impression all is going well and a lot of fans buy in to it. Hennessy's style of promotion is not as glitzy but his stable tend to go the genuine route and fans with a better knowledge of what's going on out there can appreciate the difference.

Calzaghe hasn't always been the draw he is now, it's taken Warren over a decade to reach the current position. Far too long!

Hennessy is always quick to be shot down in flames before waiting to seeing what transpires.

The Taylor match up sounds doubtful at the moment, come September or whenever the deadline date is, let's see what happens.

I'm glad everything is going along to plan! Carl must be very pleased!

Unlike those who work with SN where mud-slinging is a common practice, Froch still appears to hold Mick in high regard.

THEBUTCH wrote:Unlike those who work with SN where mud-slinging is a common practice, Froch still appears to hold Mick in high regard.

I'm sure he does, but when is Mick gonna get him his long overdue title shot.
A boxing career is a short one and it will be a shame if only the inside of a gym sees Carl's peak.

Said it on numerous occasions and will say it again.
Froch must leave Hennessy if his aspirations are to be met.
I applaud his loyalty - but at what cost ?
Froch is hardly a spring chicken, and meaty mick will be here - and earning - long after Froch has hung up his gloves.
It's a sordid, horrible business is boxing, but fighters have to be very very selfish particularly when they find themselves in Froch's position.
I wonder seriously how much Froch has banked in the years between the "Class of 2002" and now ?
Co co yet again is on the money.

Forgot about Hayemaker. I'm not really taking them too seriously to be honest, not until they put together a show

But if there links with GBP are for real, then that would be a good move for Froch

Th guy sels tickets. His opposition up to now should have been better. Should have been looking to get inhim with the likes of Sakia Biko after he won the contender, we know he would travel!

Lucian bute is fighting Libardo Andrarde. Has Lucian got more money behind him than Froch? That would have be a good fight against a GBP fighter and if he won it opens up lots of avenues

The good thing is is taht once he gets the belt people will fight him. He wont find himself in the witter situation where holding the most prestigious belt didnt open up any real avenues.

He has just got to get a move on. I really like Froch and wouldnt bet against him v anyone in the 168lbs, and I include Calzaghe( I'm not saying he would beat everyone, I'm just saying he is very live underdog in most of the fights that he wouldnt be favoured to win)

Froch attitude reminds me of David Hayes. They both want to do it the proper way. Commendable. But then look at their respective careers.

With respect, you should take Haymaker seriously.
GBP and Hayemaker are contractually entwined, and both are in it for the long course.
Richard Shaeffer, the Lawyer for GBP is probably the most knoweledgeable on the sport in the legal industry.

I think Hennessy ostencibly has the same kind of link with GBP that Haye does.

Exactly why I hold fire@ josh

Froch met with Franky at his insistence.

He wanted to hear what he had to say - and once he heard it, it confirmed exactly what he thought and he never returned his calls again.

Apparently when he entered his office, he was leaning back in his big leather chair, with a scotch in one hand and a big cigar with his feet on his desk. He was blowing smoke rings in the shape of pound signs.

He leaned forward to the Cobra and said, cigar in mouth, " How do the letter's W B U sound to you son.... combined with the numbers 41 and 0 ? "

G0mez wrote:Froch met with Franky at his insistence.

He wanted to hear what he had to say - and once he heard it, it confirmed exactly what he thought and he never returned his calls again.

Apparently when he entered his office, he was leaning back in his big leather chair, with a scotch in one hand and a big cigar with his feet on his desk. He was blowing smoke rings in the shape of pound signs.

He leaned forward to the Cobra and said, cigar in mouth, " How do the letter's W B U sound to you son.... combined with the numbers 41 and 0 ? "

Gomez you joke but Froch did meet with Mr Warren in the very early stages of his career and more surprisingly in the last couple of years when his contract was due up for renewal.

But I have a feeling Froch would never and I mean never leave Hennessy, they say don't say that especially in boxing!!!

Fair enough gomez. That was a good one

But if you show enough ambition Frank will match it, eventually.

Gomez,
Those in the know, are aware Carl has met with Wazza more than once.
However there was no whisky, cigar, or WBU in sight !
Like I've said earlier, I admire his loyalty, but at what cost ?
I ask again, how much has Carl banked sine the start of "Class of 2002" ?
This situation would be liveable if Carl was in his early to mid twenties - but he ain't !
Please not another "if only" boxer.
I admit that I am cynical about Carl's chances when the opposition is stepped up - but I want the answers with Carl in the ring, not tales about his performance in training.

fatboy2008 wrote:I will eat my next shit if Froch signed for either Haye or W arren. It will not happen.

What would that prove? you do it anyway.

twenty six wrote:Gomez,
Those in the know, are aware Carl has met with Wazza more than once.
However there was no whisky, cigar, or WBU in sight !
Like I've said earlier, I admire his loyalty, but at what cost ?
I ask again, how much has Carl banked sine the start of "Class of 2002" ?
This situation would be liveable if Carl was in his early to mid twenties - but he ain't !
Please not another "if only" boxer.
I admit that I am cynical about Carl's chances when the opposition is stepped up - but I want the answers with Carl in the ring, not tales about his performance in training.

You ask how much Carl Froch has banked since he started as one of the "original" members of the Class Of 2002, lets just say for a boxer who was just starting out he was getting paid very handsomely for someone in the infancy of his career, for example the Charles Adamu fight which was fairly early on in his career he got over 20,000 you might think that is small fry but for someone who had only a handful of professional fights it wasn't bad pickings.

In addition you and other forum members will remember we went through a period of promoters bidding for fights whose participants had nothing to do with the promotional company so for the "home" to win the bid he was having to go in over the odds, to quantify that you will remember for example Froch fighting Tony Dodson, the winning bid for that fight was very good indeed which is why Dodson was so gutted the first couple of times he had to withdraw.

Now that Froch is fighting European or fringe world class fighters I am willing to be bet he is getting 50,000 plus and for the bigger fights he has now I have absolutely no doubts he will hit 6 figures, he is the top of the bill every time Hennessy Sports hit Nottingham.

I will say I do not think Hennessy has done anywhere near as good as what some people were expecting with regards to Witter but there again you trawl through the records, you will see for yourself how many domestic title fights he has got his fighters into.

You doubt Froch's talent when he steps into world class, to be honest the only fighter I do not want to see him with at this stage is Kessler, a fighter some had beating Calzaghe on points when they met. With regards to the rest of the Super Middleweights, I give Froch a genuine and viable chance of wiping the floor with them.

Twenty Six you have to remember when you are meeting fighters in the world class bracket they are coming to win the fight as well and as such that leaves them open to the excellent counter punching skills of Froch, lets start forgetting the bullshit that Froch is frail defensively, if you seriously know what you are looking at, you will see in fact he is a very accomplished fighter.

Hey settle down fat boy !
You seem to feel I'm digging at Froch.
I'm not. I have my concerns over his defence that's true but what I am saying loud and clear, is that I want an answer to my doubts in the ring.
I have yet to see him in the ring with the level of opponent that will ask serious questions about his defence.
By stepping up, I will get that answer, and I'll be the first on here to applaud him if he delivers the goods.
However, to step up, its going to take a considerable financial investment and a level of risk that perhaps may be too high for the level of that investment.
Let's see if Mick has the balls to throw the big money in the pot and take that risk.
I hope so.
I dont want to be sat in a pub in years to come having "if only" debates about Froch.
I'm already sick of those debates about Witter - the man I am still convinced had the tools to beat Hatton if the fight had happened when it should.

Yeah this debate is far more about Hennessy's ability to deliver fights rather than Froch's ability to win them

Twenty six,

Hennessy has never been frightened of dipping his hand into his pocket. When he first started to get a foothold into the sport he was paying way over the odds to get fighters to fight a member of his team.

With regards to Froch, Hennessy pays him handsomely that is a fact.

My previous post to you was not in defence of Froch but in defence of Hennessy who is more than happy to dip his hand into his pocket to pay for the right fights.

What you should be commenting on is not whether Hennessy will front up the money because he and his connections have a nice pot to dip into, you should also not be so concerned about Froch's abilities because I believe he is a major force on the Super Middleweight scene.

My concern is very similar to yours but there is a subtle difference, its not money and its not his fighters abilities but for whatever reason Hennessy seems to have ruffled a number of feathers throughout the world of boxing, for all of his supposed contacts within the sport, GBP being one of them, and despite the pot of gold he seems to be able to dip into to get a decent show on, there seems to be a reason why a lot of people are reluctant to do business with Hennessy.

He did not get Eastman decent fights until the mandatory status was forced. He has not been able to get Junior Witter decent fights except for mandatory defences and I think Froch is going the same way, no matter how much money and no matter who he challenges no one wants to know.

The above really does spell problems for Froch.

And just for the record, don't bother mentioning Kessler for Froch. I have had personally from Bettina Palle and it also seems common knowledge, Kessler is being forced to fulfil a mandatory fight for his WBA title against Haussler.

So, if I'm reading you accurately, you agree with me that Froch would be better in pastures new, Promotor wise ?

Froch doesnt need a new promoter - he's only recently been installed as number 1 with the WBC.

Lets see what happens in the next six months. If six months down the line and Hennessey hasnt delivered Froch a title shot then there may be a case for Froch needing a new promoter. Up until this point however, Hennessy has done a good job with Froch's career.

twenty six wrote:So, if I'm reading you accurately, you agree with me that Froch would be better in pastures new, Promotor wise ?

Maybe I really am not sure. I will tell you why.

You have criticised Froch's defensive frailities which is not the promoters problem, I am not having a go at you for your opinions, all I am saying is that has nothing to do with the promoter.

You have indicated that you feel Froch's earning potential would be better served under a new promoter, I am telling you now you are incorrect as Froch is being paid a lot of money for what he has done to date, Hennessy with regards to money has done a very good job for Froch, he is getting paid a lot more money than a lot of fighters would normally do before they break into the world rankings.

The issue which you and many others have highlighted is one of the perceptions of Hennessy's tenacity and promotional abilities on the world stage in that you question his abilities to secure big fights for his fighters unless they are in a mandatory position. Witter is a prime example.

The next few months are massive and I mean really massive few months for Hennessy otherwise he will get known by all up and coming boxers, fans and others as merely a cash dispenser for fighters in their early to middle stages of their career.

Hennessy simply has to deliver but he has to keep delivering.

A prime example for you is regardless of what mistakes or whatever peoples perceptions are of someone like Hobson at Fight Academy, look at what he has delivered on countless number of occasions for Clinton Woods, British, Commonwealth, European and world title shots and then regardless of what anyone says he also managed to do it for Hatton with Maussa, Collazo and then Urango.

I mention this as a prime example for when Hennessy uses the "its really difficult to secure fighters world title shots" then people can come back using a number of examples.

I will say again, Hennessy has done very very well, like his fighters he is now at the next stage of his promotional career and unless he delivers on a regular and consistant basis without having to down the manadatory route all the time he will soon be forgotten.