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Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 11:37
by TheOneIsHere2008
Ezzard wrote:I think Holmes purposely held back the jab against Tyson as he sort of double guessed that Tyson would be waiting for it, so he could slip within reach and counter.
I think a Prime Holmes beats Tyson but there was no way in Hell the version that showed up in 1988 was going to beat him, right arm being caught up in the ropes, notwithstanding...
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 15:45
by I Feel Fine
When Holmes started using his jab that's when Tyson knocked him out. It seemed almost to me like it pissed Mike off, in a way.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 15 Jul 2008, 16:00
by TheOneIsHere2008
I Feel Fine wrote:When Holmes started using his jab that's when Tyson knocked him out. It seemed almost to me like it pissed Mike off, in a way.
Please elaborate
It seemed like he walked right through Holmes' jab...Maybe that's what got him in trouble in other fights...That is thinking you can just look through a fighter's jab...
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 17:56
by elmersalsa
I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. Do I think Tyson would beat Ali at his best? No. Nor would Holmes, though I would favor Holmes at his best to beat Tyson. That said, do I think that Holmes was at his best when he fought Norton? Yes. Did a 34 year old Norton almost beat him? Yes, almost. Would a 34 year old Holmes have beaten Norton in his prime? No, probably not. Would Holmes at his best beat Norton at his best? I don't know. Would Ali at his best beat Norton? Yes, he beat him even when he wasn't. And lastly, should we be trying to compare Holmes' chin to Ali's? No way.
Ali NEVER beat Ken Norton...That is a Cinderella Story.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 17:57
by elmersalsa
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 22 Jul 2008, 20:27
by TheOneIsHere2008
elmersalsa wrote:I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. Do I think Tyson would beat Ali at his best? No. Nor would Holmes, though I would favor Holmes at his best to beat Tyson. That said, do I think that Holmes was at his best when he fought Norton? Yes. Did a 34 year old Norton almost beat him? Yes, almost. Would a 34 year old Holmes have beaten Norton in his prime? No, probably not. Would Holmes at his best beat Norton at his best? I don't know. Would Ali at his best beat Norton? Yes, he beat him even when he wasn't. And lastly, should we be trying to compare Holmes' chin to Ali's? No way.
Ali NEVER beat Ken Norton...That is a Cinderella Story.
I watched all three fights, real time, and each one could have went either way...Neither fighter ever had the other fighter
visibly hurt in the entire thirty nine rounds...In fact ABC assembled a panel of experts to review the final fight of the trilogy in Yankee Stadium and they concluded it was a draw and as we know the champion keeps his title in the event of a draw...
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 23 Jul 2008, 22:15
by Robinson
I must stand by and agree with you on this one.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 25 Jul 2008, 08:43
by overhand_right
I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. .
Another expert weighing in.
I would think Clay would beat a 21 year old Holmes -- Holmes didn't even turn pro til he was 23.
Idiot.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 00:55
by I Feel Fine
overhand_right wrote:I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. .
Another expert weighing in.
I would think Clay would beat a 21 year old Holmes -- Holmes didn't even turn pro til he was 23.
Idiot.
Yes, I know that. Which is all the more reason, isn't it? My point was that the Clay who was knocked down by Cooper was still a developing fighter, improving with each fight, and that some fighters need more time than others. Dipshit.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 01:07
by p4p1
clay would still beat tyson if they were both 21 he still ahd the right style to do it
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 31 Jul 2008, 01:12
by I Feel Fine
He could but I probably wouldn't favor him. He would obviously take Tyson more seriously than Cooper, so perhaps that would be the difference. Tough to say, but based on what we saw of them at 21 I would give Tyson the edge. At their best I think Ali clearly wins, maybe by late stoppage.
elmersalsa wrote:Ali NEVER beat Ken Norton...That is a Cinderella Story.
The great Larry Holmes at his very best would have beaten any great heavyweight in history. He had the tools to do it.
Bullshit.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 02 Aug 2008, 17:19
by Brutu
You see Holmes later fights with like Buttabean?
What good is the jab if it looks like he moving around the ring like on a broken uni-cycle with bent pedals?
He should just be greatful that the fight with George Foreman fell through last minute in Houston about 10 years ago.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 02 Aug 2008, 18:17
by TheOneIsHere2008
Brutu wrote:You see Holmes later fights with like Buttabean?
What good is the jab if it looks like he moving around the ring like on a broken uni-cycle with bent pedals?
He should just be greatful that the fight with George Foreman fell through last minute in Houston about 10 years ago.
That was an entertaining fight...I hate Eric Esch...
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 02 Aug 2008, 18:49
by Brutu
Hey you know, I like to think Im partially responsible for that fight happening.
As I pointed out at this forum,that in Holmes in his autobiography Larry Holmes refered to Butterbean as"A Big Fat Slob impersonating a fighter"
listed the page number,
and suggested Butterbean should challenge Holmes to avenge this insult'
less then a year later the two fought.
I dont think Butterbean reads a bunch of books,thats why I thought,then again im delusional.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 04 Aug 2008, 09:06
by Grimm
overhand_right wrote:I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. .
Another expert weighing in.
I would think Clay would beat a 21 year old Holmes -- Holmes didn't even turn pro til he was 23.
Idiot.
Lmao.
I'm sure this was the point he was making.
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 04 Aug 2008, 09:09
by TheOneIsHere2008
Grimm wrote:overhand_right wrote:I Feel Fine wrote:Do I think Tyson at 21 would beat Clay at 21? Yes, I would favor him, and over a 21 year old Holmes as well. I would also favor a 21 year old Clay to beat a 21 year old Holmes. .
Another expert weighing in.
I would think Clay would beat a 21 year old Holmes -- Holmes didn't even turn pro til he was 23.
Idiot.
Lmao.
I'm sure this was the point he was making.
I thought ifeelfine meant a raw Holmes against a raw Ali...Raw Ali was able to win Olympic Gold...
Re: Larry Holmes-The Jab Is The Last Thing To Go
Posted: 05 Aug 2008, 00:19
by Robinson
Brutu wrote:Hey you know, I like to think Im partially responsible for that fight happening.
As I pointed out at this forum,that in Holmes in his autobiography Larry Holmes refered to Butterbean as"A Big Fat Slob impersonating a fighter"
listed the page number,
and suggested Butterbean should challenge Holmes to avenge this insult'
less then a year later the two fought.
I dont think Butterbean reads a bunch of books,thats why I thought,then again im delusional.
You are an un-credited match maker :)