BoxRec

A couple of thoughts on this Tyson/Marciano comparison as it relates to Lewis.

Firstly, even the version of Tyson who fought Lewis possessed certain attributes superior to prime Marciano. He was bigger, stronger, tougher, much faster, had a better chin and punched alot harder.
Sure Marciano's Suzy Qing of Walcott and Louis are as aesthetically pleasing as ko's get, but just watch clips of his fights with Charles, Moore, Cockell and others. Marciano usually needed to land alot of his punches to stop his foes. Can you realistically imagine Charles or Moore standing up to Tyson's barrage of punches for as long as they did Marciano's?
Also, Marciano, owner of the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ ever would have to invest way too much to get to Lewis, who was superior in almost every way to any opponent Marciano ever faced.
Like I stated earlier this would be a massacre.

theone wrote:A couple of thoughts on this Tyson/Marciano comparison as it relates to Lewis.

Firstly, even the version of Tyson who fought Lewis possessed certain attributes superior to prime Marciano. He was bigger, stronger, tougher, much faster, had a better chin and punched alot harder.
Sure Marciano's Suzy Qing of Walcott and Louis are as aesthetically pleasing as ko's get, but just watch clips of his fights with Charles, Moore, Cockell and others. Marciano usually needed to land alot of his punches to stop his foes. Can you realistically imagine Charles or Moore standing up to Tyson's barrage of punches for as long as they did Marciano's?
Also, Marciano, owner of the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ ever would have to invest way too much to get to Lewis, who was superior in almost every way to any opponent Marciano ever faced.
Like I stated earlier this would be a massacre.

A fat 35 year old Tyson training at strip clubs stronger, faster, more durable and tougher than a peak Marciano?

Lewis as skilled as Charles and Walcott? Not close.

A fat 35 year old Tyson training at strip clubs stronger, faster, more durable and tougher than a peak Marciano?

The Tyson that stepped into the ring with Lewis definitely was.

Lewis as skilled as Charles and Walcott? Not close.

I doubt even at their peak that Charles or Walcott could beat Lewis. At the point in their careers that they fought Marciano, they weren't half as formidable as him.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 41 and Archie Moore was 31.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 28 and Joe Louis was 38.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 29 and Jersey Joe was 39.

It's shines a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen.

Marciano would have to get inside on Lewis. He'd take a terrible tattooing from Lewis's jabs. Marciano was a bleeder, so cuts would be a major problem. He'd also have to stay inside, crowding Lewis and putting rope burns on his back, which would not be easy with Lewis's movement. Marciano on the outside would just be target practice for Lewis. On the inside, he'd have to pull the kind of hammering, fouling tactics that he used most notably on Don Cockell, in order to wear Lewis down. That could cost Marciano points, even a DQ.

Prime Marciano has a major puncher's chance but prime Lewis, because of all his advantages in height, weight, reach, jabbing, and dancing movement, would have to be a prohibitive favorite.

thomconn wrote:Marciano would have to get inside on Lewis. He'd take a terrible tattooing from Lewis's jabs. Marciano was a bleeder, so cuts would be a major problem. He'd also have to stay inside, crowding Lewis and putting rope burns on his back, which would not be easy with Lewis's movement. Marciano on the outside would just be target practice for Lewis. On the inside, he'd have to pull the kind of hammering, fouling tactics that he used most notably on Don Cockell, in order to wear Lewis down. That could cost Marciano points, even a DQ.

Prime Marciano has a major puncher's chance but prime Lewis, because of all his advantages in height, weight, reach, jabbing, and dancing movement, would have to be a prohibitive favorite.

You think Lennox Lewis had better foot movement and hand speed than Ezzard Charles?

Paddy Dolan wrote:One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 41 and Archie Moore was 31.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 28 and Joe Louis was 38.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 29 and Jersey Joe was 39.

It's shines a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen.

Rocky was 28 and Louis was 37 when they fought; Rocky was 29 and Walcott 38 when they fought. How does making Louis and Walcott one year older shine "a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen?"

raylawpc wrote:

Paddy Dolan wrote:One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 41 and Archie Moore was 31.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 28 and Joe Louis was 38.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 29 and Jersey Joe was 39.

It's shines a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen.

Rocky was 28 and Louis was 37 when they fought; Rocky was 29 and Walcott 38 when they fought. How does making Louis and Walcott one year older shine "a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen?"

I wonder how Rocky would do if he was always in his late thirties and his most difficult opponents were in their late twenties...

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Paddy Dolan wrote:One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 41 and Archie Moore was 31.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 28 and Joe Louis was 38.

One wonders how Rocky Marciano would have done if he was 29 and Jersey Joe was 39.

It's shines a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen.

Rocky was 28 and Louis was 37 when they fought; Rocky was 29 and Walcott 38 when they fought. How does making Louis and Walcott one year older shine "a whole new light on his victories over those gentlemen?"

I wonder how Rocky would do if he was always in his late thirties and his most difficult opponents were in their late twenties...

I don't know. (Personally, I don't dwell on things that could never have happened.) Rocky never fought in this late 30s, anything would be pure conjecture. However, I've read that Walcott was better in his 30s than his 20s, and Archie Moore was a middleweight when in his 20s. We all know about Louis. I'm not sure the man ever lived who could beat Louis in his prime.

If there has ever lived a 185 pound guy who could lick Lewis..........it would be Marciano.
I'll take Lewis on size and strenghth alone - whatever the outcome i think Marciano would give him hell, though.

theone wrote:Lewis by brutal ko in one.

Lewis took 6 rounds to put away Tommy Morrison.

how the hell would he beat The Brockton Blockbuster in 1 round...?

i see it being much more of a struggle for Lewis than people would expect.

I'll say Lewis wins by "corner doctor's stoppage" after round 10,after which follows by Rocky and his corner protesting the stoppage and a barrage of boos endlessly echoing from the crowd.Lewis slightly ahead at the time of stoppage.
Shades of Lewis-V.Klischko. 8)

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:I'll take Lennox...

Marciano hit way harder than McCall or Rahman. Ill take Marciano. He would be able to do what those two did. Lewis too slow and chinny.

Lewis, TKO late. Saying that Lewis only had a jab, comparing him to some of Marciano's opponents who may have been similar to Lewis in height but who usually had records like 28-18, and saying that Lewis wouldn't last three rounds... funny stuff. If Lewis is in shape he should win rather convincingly.

But as to the person who said that Lewis would beat Ezzard Charles; yeah, well, he was 30-50 pounds heavier. Charles was still a much better, more skilled fighter than Lewis, though Lewis was bigger. Pound for pound its not even close.

I Feel Fine wrote:Lewis, TKO late. Saying that Lewis only had a jab, comparing him to some of Marciano's opponents who may have been similar to Lewis in height but who usually had records like 28-18, and saying that Lewis wouldn't last three rounds... funny stuff. If Lewis is in shape he should win rather convincingly.

But as to the person who said that Lewis would beat Ezzard Charles; yeah, well, he was 30-50 pounds heavier. Charles was still a much better, more skilled fighter than Lewis, though Lewis was bigger. Pound for pound its not even close.

What opponents did the Rock face that were similar build to Lewis ?

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:A couple of thoughts on this Tyson/Marciano comparison as it relates to Lewis.

Firstly, even the version of Tyson who fought Lewis possessed certain attributes superior to prime Marciano. He was bigger, stronger, tougher, much faster, had a better chin and punched alot harder.
Sure Marciano's Suzy Qing of Walcott and Louis are as aesthetically pleasing as ko's get, but just watch clips of his fights with Charles, Moore, Cockell and others. Marciano usually needed to land alot of his punches to stop his foes. Can you realistically imagine Charles or Moore standing up to Tyson's barrage of punches for as long as they did Marciano's?
Also, Marciano, owner of the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ ever would have to invest way too much to get to Lewis, who was superior in almost every way to any opponent Marciano ever faced.
Like I stated earlier this would be a massacre.

A fat 35 year old Tyson training at strip clubs stronger, faster, more durable and tougher than a peak Marciano?

Lewis as skilled as Charles and Walcott? Not close.

he also forgot to add that "prime tyson" could'nt put away the likes of Tillis,Green,and the very slow "Bonecrusher Smith".
also,took quite a while to get "Jesse Ferguson" to finally go into "quitting by clinching mode"(via DQ in round 7)
i'll spare em at that as i wont even go into or add in the fight with that journeyman in tokyo.

overhand wrote:

TheOneIsHere2008 wrote:I'll take Lennox...

Marciano hit way harder than McCall or Rahman. Ill take Marciano. He would be able to do what those two did. Lewis too slow and chinny.

i picked lewis by corner doc stoppage after 10.

i think that Rocky could definately have a good chance to do what McCall and Rahman did if only his reach was at least around 72". 8)

Rocky with his 5'10-1/2 frame and 67" reach would'nt even be able to reach lewis's head or jaw. :(
he'd have to go completely into brawler body puncher mode and use alot of clinching as well like Ricky hatton.

I think that Lewis would mainly rely on the jab and he would know to fight tall and cautiously as well.
Rocky's body attacks would give Lewis fits in spots but Lewis would keep the jab going and Rocky would be Too busted up for the doc's to allow it past 10 rounds. :(

scoring after 10 would read 5-4-1 Lewis. 8)

AngryGoon38 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

theone wrote:A couple of thoughts on this Tyson/Marciano comparison as it relates to Lewis.

Firstly, even the version of Tyson who fought Lewis possessed certain attributes superior to prime Marciano. He was bigger, stronger, tougher, much faster, had a better chin and punched alot harder.
Sure Marciano's Suzy Qing of Walcott and Louis are as aesthetically pleasing as ko's get, but just watch clips of his fights with Charles, Moore, Cockell and others. Marciano usually needed to land alot of his punches to stop his foes. Can you realistically imagine Charles or Moore standing up to Tyson's barrage of punches for as long as they did Marciano's?
Also, Marciano, owner of the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ ever would have to invest way too much to get to Lewis, who was superior in almost every way to any opponent Marciano ever faced.
Like I stated earlier this would be a massacre.

A fat 35 year old Tyson training at strip clubs stronger, faster, more durable and tougher than a peak Marciano?

Lewis as skilled as Charles and Walcott? Not close.

he also forgot to add that "prime tyson" could'nt put away the likes of Tillis,Green,and the very slow "Bonecrusher Smith".
also,took quite a while to get "Jesse Ferguson" to finally go into "quitting by clinching mode"(via DQ in round 7)
i'll spare em at that as i wont even go into or add in the fight with that journeyman in tokyo.

Have you ever actually seen any of those fighters fight? Have you ever seen film of Marciano? Can, or more importantly would, Marciano fight Tyson the same way those other fighters did? Would he be able to use an advantage in size to tie Tyson up whenever he got close? Would he be able to box Tyson effectively on the outside, scoring jabs and straight right hands while avoiding exchanges? Would he go into a shell and attempted to avoid getting ko'd rather than try to win the fight?

Marciano was a purely offensive fighter who would, probably not having any other choice, take it to Tyson; a fighter who has every considerable offensive advantage over him.

Lewis took 6 rounds to put away Tommy Morrison.

how the hell would he beat The Brockton Blockbuster in 1 round...?

See what i wrote above. Same difference.

Firstly, even the version of Tyson who fought Lewis possessed certain attributes superior to prime Marciano. He was bigger, stronger, tougher, much faster, had a better chin and punched alot harder.
Sure Marciano's Suzy Qing of Walcott and Louis are as aesthetically pleasing as ko's get, but just watch clips of his fights with Charles, Moore, Cockell and others. Marciano usually needed to land alot of his punches to stop his foes. Can you realistically imagine Charles or Moore standing up to Tyson's barrage of punches for as long as they did Marciano's?
Also, Marciano, owner of the shortest reach of any heavyweight champ ever would have to invest way too much to get to Lewis, who was superior in almost every way to any opponent Marciano ever faced.
Like I stated earlier this would be a massacre.[/quote]








Have you ever actually seen any of those fighters fight? Have you ever seen film of Marciano? Can, or more importantly would, Marciano fight Tyson the same way those other fighters did? Would he be able to use an advantage in size to tie Tyson up whenever he got close? Would he be able to box Tyson effectively on the outside, scoring jabs and straight right hands while avoiding exchanges? Would he go into a shell and attempted to avoid getting ko'd rather than try to win the fight?

Marciano was a purely offensive fighter who would, probably not having any other choice, take it to Tyson; a fighter who has every considerable offensive advantage over him.

Lewis took 6 rounds to put away Tommy Morrison.

how the hell would he beat The Brockton Blockbuster in 1 round...?

See what i wrote above. Same difference.[/quote][/quote]



you lost me.i thought we were discussing lewis-marciano.
i never made any prediction of rocky vs tyson.

i was making the point that if rocky took so long to put away moore and cockell and get criticized for it because they are awkward and tough opponents,especially the ole mongoose,than how come tyson being taken the distance with the likes of tillis,green and bonecrusher is totally acceptable and fine...?

rocky didnt always put away guys quickly who he was supposed to easily handle.same thing with tyson.
this was the point of my stance on behalf of rocky who gets criticized because cockell went till the 9th and so did moore.
tillis,green and smith went the distance with tyson even though they were supposed to get starched early.
i acknowledge that they were tough cagey guys and were in survival mode but still,mike was supposed to ko them.

i still think that lewis-marciano would be a tough fight for lewis because he'd be very cautious and selective with his punches.
he wouldnt want to leave himself open,especially for the first 5-7 rounds until he had rocky figured out enough.rocky's style was very awkward and he had tremendous 1 punch ko power,at least from certain angles.lewis would be cautious and use the jab while circling.very similiar to the lewis-tyson fight but rocky would get hit less because of the crouching and head bobbing style.mike was more stand up straight with lennox.rocky wouldnt be.he'd use body punches and clinching.he'd get on the inside and brawl.

lennox would have to keep him at bay with the jab and avoid direct trading with rocky.he would figure out rocky more and more as the rounds went by and would eventually force the doc to stop it after round 10 because of there being too much visable damage on rockys face.rocky would want to continue and technically he could whether it be a 12 or 15 rounder but the doc would be too concerned about all the damage around the eyes.fight would be very close at the time of stoppage.crowd would boo and lewis would be glad that he doesnt have to deal with any more body blows from the rock.

Robinson wrote:

I Feel Fine wrote:Lewis, TKO late. Saying that Lewis only had a jab, comparing him to some of Marciano's opponents who may have been similar to Lewis in height but who usually had records like 28-18, and saying that Lewis wouldn't last three rounds... funny stuff. If Lewis is in shape he should win rather convincingly.

But as to the person who said that Lewis would beat Ezzard Charles; yeah, well, he was 30-50 pounds heavier. Charles was still a much better, more skilled fighter than Lewis, though Lewis was bigger. Pound for pound its not even close.

What opponents did the Rock face that were similar build to Lewis ?

Well the one I was referring to, for example, was Johnny Shkor, who was 6'4". Marciano fans will point to someone like Shkor, who was similar in height to Lewis, and say "See, Rocky beat big guys." Problem is Shkor was apparently not a particularly good fighter, had 18 losses when he fought Marciano, and so its sort of a false comparison. Lewis had more than size.

Indeed....a bit like saying that Sullivan could beat a Valuev on
the grounds that he faced one large man....

I Feel Fine wrote:Well the one I was referring to, for example, was Johnny Shkor, who was 6'4". Marciano fans will point to someone like Shkor, who was similar in height to Lewis, and say "See, Rocky beat big guys." Problem is Shkor was apparently not a particularly good fighter, had 18 losses when he fought Marciano, and so its sort of a false comparison. Lewis had more than size.

Not to mention style.

http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:19978

Right. A lot of the big guys in the first half of the 20th century weren't even boxers, they often came forward, one exception being Carnera. Again, not really comparbale to Lewis who could box very well from the outside.