BoxRec

Posted: **15 Sep 2008, 16:27**

You would think it would help his case. However, it's hard to say what years from now what people would think. It seems to be one of those fights in which the winners' reputation won't improve. If Pacquiao wins, some people will say that he beat a fading fighter.
If De La Hoya wins, some people will say that he beat a much smaller guy.

Personally, I think De La Hoya is still 80-90% of the fighter that he was at his best and if is still able to fight at that level against Paquiao, a clearcut win for Pacquiao would be pretty impressive. I would have to consider making him #1. If De La Hoya destroys him, it won't hurt his reputation too much.

Posted: **15 Sep 2008, 16:46**

Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.

I think he should be in the #1 spot already. He's held World Titles in 5 weight classes, none of the others have even come close to doing that. Sure a couple dominated 1 weight class for years or had success in two, but could you imagine Elorde jumping up to LW and fighting and beating Roberto Duran the way Pacquiao did Barrera and Morales (yeah, both were past prime, but not to an extreme degree) or even all the way to David Diaz, Elorde would've gotten killed. To me for Elorde to have matched what Pacquiao has done, he would've had to have moved up and fought close with the likes of Duran and other top 135-147 lbers.

How about Khaosai Galaxy? Would he have been able to jump from 115 to 130-135 and fight Julio Cesar Chavez? He'd have been annihilated too. How about just to 122 to fight Daniel Zaragoza or Tracy Harris Patterson? Both would've smashed him.

Pancho Villa was a great fighter but he had too short of a career to truly put himself over Pacquiao, who not only had a world title at 112, but is now a titleist at 135 after having a pretty long career thus far and is about to fight De la Hoya at 147. I kinda doubt Villa would've ever been calling out Tony Canzoneri.

Now Fighting Harada comes close as he was a Champ at Flyweight and Bantamweight and very nearly one at Featherweight, but even still, the strength of opposition that Pacquiao has faced from 112, to 122, to 126, to 130, to 135 is very impressive, especially in that his losses have been so infrequent.

And yes, in a way it helps Pacquiao's case that he's always been a huge weight drainer and thus was able to carry his abilities through so many weight classes since he was naturally much heavier than each's limit beforehan, but that's simply another element of modern boxing and still few have managed to go up so many weight classes with such success, weight draining or not, such as De La Hoya, Mayweather, Jones, and Toney. What matters most in comparioson's between fighters of disparate eras is the relative strength of opposition and relative achievements in light of such opposition, and when it comes to both Filipino and Southeast Asian fighters in general I believe it's only logical to conclude that Pacquiao is second to none. In a sense he's what Chavez was to Mexico, someone who's fighting capabilities could transcend weight classes with excellence.

Posted: **15 Sep 2008, 18:12**

Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.

I would.

Certainly, it would be hard to argue with.

Posted: **15 Sep 2008, 23:59**

Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.
How about Khaosai Galaxy? Would he have been able to jump from 115 to 130-135 and fight Julio Cesar Chavez? He'd have been annihilated too. How about just to 122 to fight Daniel Zaragoza or Tracy Harris Patterson? Both would've smashed him.

I agree with much of your full post (above)......And also with Galaxy not being able to move all the way up to LW and beat JCC (though, neither could PacMan...A prime JCC would have TKO'd PacMan inside of 8 rounds). Lets be serious here for a moment, regarding PacMan and LW. His win over Diaz was a good win.....but Diaz is no world beater and won't be remembered by anyone in all seriousness....

And lastly, regarding Galaxy Vs Zaragoza and Patterson at 122. If the money was there I think Galaxy would have beat both of them if he moved up to 122 under the same plan as PacMan has....... Reality is Galaxy was making big money at JBW by staying a reigning champion there.........But no, I believe he would have stopped both Patterson and Zaragoza (cuts) had he faced them at 122......

Posted: **16 Sep 2008, 01:38**

meade95 wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.
How about Khaosai Galaxy? Would he have been able to jump from 115 to 130-135 and fight Julio Cesar Chavez? He'd have been annihilated too. How about just to 122 to fight Daniel Zaragoza or Tracy Harris Patterson? Both would've smashed him.

I agree with much of your full post (above)......And also with Galaxy not being able to move all the way up to LW and beat JCC (though, neither could PacMan...A prime JCC would have TKO'd PacMan inside of 8 rounds). Lets be serious here for a moment, regarding PacMan and LW. His win over Diaz was a good win.....but Diaz is no world beater and won't be remembered by anyone in all seriousness....

And lastly, regarding Galaxy Vs Zaragoza and Patterson at 122. If the money was there I think Galaxy would have beat both of them if he moved up to 122 under the same plan as PacMan has....... Reality is Galaxy was making big money at JBW by staying a reigning champion there.........But no, I believe he would have stopped both Patterson and Zaragoza (cuts) had he faced them at 122......

That's fair, I seriously doubt he could've beaten the top 126 lbers on up the way Pacquiao has managed to as well though. I also recognize David Diaz was no Chavez and Chavez would've wrecked Pacquiao too, but Diaz was still a solid fighter at 135 despite being a bit of a paper champ, he did win the Title legitimately over Santa Cruz despite taking a beating beforehand.

However even in conceding the idea that Galaxy would've had a chance against Patterson and Zaragoza, Pacquiao actually DID beat Barrera, Morales, and Marquez, going 5-1-1 against them and also beat a wide variety of highly ranked lesser name fighters from 122-135 that I believe surely gives him the #1 spot unquestionably.

Posted: **16 Sep 2008, 23:24**

Success over more than one weight always impresses me, but it's not the only criteria I'd go by. Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon for instance pretty much spent there entire careers at MW, yet I'd rate them higher than several fighters who were world class at 3 or more weights. Galaxy spent his whole career at one weight, but it was his total dominance over several yrs that get's my vote. Pacquiao and Harada both started at Flyweight and moved up past Galaxy's ideal weight, but in a hypothetical matchup at 112-115 I'd honestly take Khaosai to wear down and beat both of them.

Posted: **16 Sep 2008, 23:53**

Seamus wrote:Success over more than one weight always impresses me, but it's not the only criteria I'd go by. Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon for instance pretty much spent there entire careers at MW, yet I'd rate them higher than several fighters who were world class at 3 or more weights. Galaxy spent his whole career at one weight, but it was his total dominance over several yrs that get's my vote. Pacquiao and Harada both started at Flyweight and moved up past Galaxy's ideal weight, but in a hypothetical matchup at 112-115 I'd honestly take Khaosai to wear down and beat both of them.

Another interesting take - Though in all fairness 112-115 wasn't PacMan's best weight - As he was a champion there, but was young, green and improving / growing to his more natural and best fighting weight.

But I agree. If PacMan and Galaxy met anywhere between 115-118. I'd take Galaxy by KO.

Posted: **17 Sep 2008, 00:06**

meade95 wrote:
Seamus wrote:Success over more than one weight always impresses me, but it's not the only criteria I'd go by. Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon for instance pretty much spent there entire careers at MW, yet I'd rate them higher than several fighters who were world class at 3 or more weights. Galaxy spent his whole career at one weight, but it was his total dominance over several yrs that get's my vote. Pacquiao and Harada both started at Flyweight and moved up past Galaxy's ideal weight, but in a hypothetical matchup at 112-115 I'd honestly take Khaosai to wear down and beat both of them.
Another interesting take - Though in all fairness 112-115 wasn't PacMan's best weight - As he was a champion there, but was young, green and improving / growing to his more natural and best fighting weight.

But I agree. If PacMan and Galaxy met anywhere between 115-118. I'd take Galaxy by KO.

Exactly, trying to match up Pacquiao and Galaxy at 112 or 115 is like trying to match De La Hoya with Chavez at 130 or 135. Pacquiao was nowhere near his prime at that weight class. He's prime right now and pretty much since 126

Posted: **17 Sep 2008, 20:56**

Another who is between the bests, is

Koichi Wajima

Posted: **23 Sep 2009, 23:12**

Obviously revised my top 3

1.Manny Pacquiao
2.Khaosai Galaxy
3.Pancho Villa

Posted: **24 Sep 2009, 17:55**

Martin Sosa Cameron wrote:Another who is between the bests, is

Koichi Wajima

Yes, and sadly forgotten by many fans, and ignored by BOTH Halls of Fame. A shame for those of us who remember him.

Posted: **24 Sep 2009, 17:58**

Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.

I think Harada over Jofre was a greater accomplishment.

Posted: **03 Oct 2009, 04:42**

i think pac has to be number 1 after what he has acclomplished and if he beats cotto he has to go into top 10 all time IMO

Posted: **03 Oct 2009, 11:17**

1. Villa
2. Pac
3. Harada
4. Elorde
5. Galaxy
6. Gushiken
7. Yuh
8. Chang
9. C Garcia
10. Villaflor

Posted: **07 Oct 2009, 10:22**

Yuh over Chang. That's a surprise.

Posted: **04 Nov 2010, 04:52**

interesting thread. you old timers can be pretty harsh with fighters like galaxy, picking holes in anything. lucky decisions? matsumuru 1 - kidding?

anyway, some developments worth bringing up:

chang is now in the IBHOF and is being recognised as an all time great who beat many good or outstanding fighters, mademany quality title defenses and went on to have future world title successes, and who also feaured in some astonishing battles, such as ohashi 2 and kittikassem (unsuccessful comeback fight).

http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2010/chang_f ... shrinement___/

good year for pongsaklek wonjongkam. not only did he win back his title lost in shocker to daisuke naito (an apparently legacy killing fight), he won it back outboxing 2 weight champ koki kameda, proving beyond doubt his skills and getting a very big scalp. winning ring mag's title, and getting some extra recognition, to boot. on top of that, 2 of his victims julio cesar miranda and luis lazarte won versions of world titles this year. pongsaklek is a couple of defenses away from equalling galaxy's record (20), albeit one weight down from galaxy. not bad for a guy long knows for his split title and inability to sort out a big reward jorge arce bout.

also, maybe time for some veeraphol sahaprom revisionism. 4 of his toughest fights came vs toshiaki nishioka, big southpaw, away from home in japan. 2 wins, 2 tough draws. at least 2 of the fights are tremendous wars. nishioka was boxing damn well back then, and he's boxing even better now, on a nice run of wins for the WBC 122-pound title, most recently a near shutout over mandatory/legit top 10 122-pounder rendall munroe. so what is veeraphol doesn't have quite as many title defenses as canizales, for me a nice fighter to watch but one of the most overrated of the late '80s due to regular apearances on american television.

interestingly: i've yet to come across a controversial decision that went in favour of veeraphol or wonjongkam.

Posted: **07 Nov 2010, 13:34**

pacquio is the greatest

Posted: **07 Nov 2010, 16:14**

There is no way Galaxy should be rated ahead of Harada, Villa or Pacquao. His comp wasn't as bad as some revisionists have made out but it also certainly didn't match that of the 3 aformentioned.

My top 5:

1) Manny Pacquao

2) Pancho Villa

3) Fighting Harada

4) Khaosai Galaxy

5) Ceferino Garcia

Posted: **08 Nov 2010, 00:56**

hi to everyone,
for me the always be the number 1 top on the asian boxer is Manny Pacqiuao... he's the greatest fighter off all time... he had 7 title in different division and in this coming november 14 sunday he will fight for the 8 belt to Antonio Margarito from mexico.
steve barbarich, steve barbarich

Posted: **09 Nov 2010, 22:59**

1. M. Pacquiao
2. F. Harada
3. F. Elorde
4. P. Villa
5. K. Galaxy

--

6. J. Chang
7. C. Garcia
8. H. Ebihara
9. C. John
10. M. Yuh

Posted: **30 Dec 2012, 13:44**

meade95 wrote:Some good lists - I would have to think about it hard to come up with a top-5 - Might be too hard to break it down into only a top-5 -

I would say, regarding Galaxy.....

The notion that Khaosai Galaxy's competition wasn't of quality just isn't accurate - He fought quality competition throughout his entire title reign...and the reality is the other champions avoided him....hell the WBA king back then (J. Wantabe) simply vacated his belt instead of fighting him ...when Galaxy was ranked #1 -

Furthermore Galaxy did fight and beat the other long reigning IBF JBW champion during his regin....that was E. Pical - And he beat him on the road in Pical's home country and hometown to boot (KO 14th).

K. Galaxy Resume is very impressive by all measures.... There is also an odd notion that Galaxy only fought in Thailand, and that is incorrect as well.... He defended his world title in a number of places outside of Thailand...

He traveld and beat a highly thought of IBF JBW Champion Ellyas Pical, in Jakarta, Indonesia.....so this was in all effect a "unification" title fight...yet the IBF wouldn't put Pical's title on the line....Galaxy still took the fight and was the only one risking his title belt......yet he took it...travled and Ko'd him....

He traveld and beat the undefeated / big punching Israel Contreras (24-0-1) in Willemstad, Curacao -

He traveld and beat Chang Ho Choi in Seoul, Korea -

He traveld and beat Kenji Matsumura, in Japan (Twice) -

Outside of the quality competition listed above....Galaxy also fought and beat...the following...

Rafael Orono 32-2-1 (WBC JBW World Champion....had an accomplished reign as champion)

Edgar Omar Monserrat 13-1-0 (Highly rated challenger....fought for sevearl world titles)

Israel Contreras 24-0-1 (Went on to win WBO & WBA BW World Titles)

Ellyas Pical 16-1-0 (Long reigning IBF JBW Champion...8 defenses...when he lost to K. Galaxy his IBF belt wasn't on the line....Galaxy's WBA belt was)

Tae-Il Chang 26-2-1 (Won IBF World Title)

Alberto Castro 21-2-1 (solid challenger)

Cobra Ari Blanca 30-5-3 (challenged for several world titles)

Shunichi Nakajima 23-4-0 (Japanese super fyweight Champion)

Yong Kang Kim 21-2-0 (Went on to win 2 world titles)

Ernesto Ford 21-1-0 (ranked in the top 10 of all three world titles at the time)

Jae-Sok Park 14-1-0 (ranked #3 at the time)

David Griman 13-0-0 (Went on to win WBA Fly Title)

Chang Ho Choi 18-2-0 (IBF Fly World Champion)

Dong Chun Lee 20-5-1 (former OPBF Super Flyweight Title)

So the reality is not only did K. Galaxy travel and beat opponents....but he faced a very healthy resume during his long and impressive reign while being actively avoided by several of the other champions - And not only did he win......he did so mostly in brutal KO'ing fashion.

He took on all commers...boxers, sluggers, runner's, you name it.....broke them down and defeated them....Was one of the best lower-weight body-punchers ever (which is often overlooked). He went to the body like that of JCC in his prime days....

You conveniently left out one little detail about Watanabe and Galaxy. The WBA stripped Watanabe when Watanabe signed to unify the division with Poonturat. He thus became the lineal super fly champ, and Galaxy won the vacant belt from Espanol.
Also, regarding Pical, no, he wasn't that good at all. He lost to the mediocre Polanco, as just one example. The IBF title in lower weights in those days (the early days of the IBF) was a joke. It's like citing early WBO champs in those weights. Orono was also past it by the time he fought Galaxy, and this was already after he'd lost his belt to Poonturat, who then lost it to Watanabe.
Galaxy's best win was probably Contreras. That's not even comparable to Jofre and Kingpetch, nor is it comparable to MAB, Morales, JMM, DLH, Hatton and Cotto. The Contreras win is probably slightly below the equivalent of the Ledwaba win on Pac's resume. I'd also take Villa's win over Wilde over Galaxy's resume, which also does consist of a very close call against Payakaroon, who had been dominated by Roman.
Galaxy's chin also wasn't rock-like; he was hurt by Blanca, and I think Moon would've stopped him.

Posted: **30 Dec 2012, 13:47**

Mine:
1. Harada
2. Pac
3. Villa
4. Elorde
5. Chang

Posted: **30 Dec 2012, 16:26**

This thread is pretty old now, so I may make some changes. Might have Wonjongkam in my top 10 now, or even Chris John.

Posted: **31 Dec 2012, 23:23**

*cough*Choinoi *cough*

DD

Posted: **31 Dec 2012, 23:24**

You know that Sun Kil Moon song?

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