boxrec ranking on lennox lewis ????

[Captain Hook]

Ironfight is ranked 60th and should be far higher. He'd have been big trouble for ANY heavyweight in history.

Ironfight or Ironfist?

He should be top 50 but no highter than 35. He was a lumbering twot.

[wouter]

Ironfight is ranked 60th and should be far higher. He'd have been big trouble for ANY heavyweight in history.

Ironfight or Ironfist?

He should be top 50 but no highter than 35. He was a lumbering twot.

I'd say he should be top twenty. Not only did he beat Herbie Hide, Corrie Sanders and Danny Williams, he was also leading on points against Chris Byrd and Lennox Lewis before being TKO'd.

[johnswan1]

Agreed. Nobody was competitive with him except for Lewis, plus four rounds of that were fought with a huge cut over his eye yet he still led on points. Shame he was never really tested, but the guy has never been even losing on points against anybody, and both his defeats came via. injurys. I think top twenty no problem - even his wins were all by KO bar one.

[DavidPayne]

He beat nobody of substance. Defeat, is defeat is defeat.

He fought 3 meritable guys. Byrd, Lewis and Sanders.

[Captain Hook]

Well said, and I'm not having you count Herbie Hide as a decent win because he's a complete no-mark.

30mph wind + Herbie = horizontal Herbie

[Carbo]

On Lewis versus Holmes, If they were to fight, I would have to pick Holmes. Lewis always struggled more against fighters able to establish a good jab of their own, and on this score, Holmes bows to nobody in boxing history. Holmes also had outstanding stamina and a brilliant chin.

In terms of legacy, I'd also put Holmes slightly ahead, if only because he would never allowed himself the mental weakness that left Lewis underprepared for Rahman. That being said, in terms of the relative strengths of their era's, I'd take Lewis's over Holmes's.

One more point: Klitschko is without a doubt the worst universally recognised heavyweight champion I can think of, topped, perhaps, by his china chinned brother. Why people rate this guy is truly beyond the scope of my admittedly puny brain.

[DavidPayne]

I'd go with your theory carbo, but I would have the caveat that Lewis wouldn't have permitted Holmes to recover from the shakedowns he did have in his career, though having said that and by way of contradiction, he let Holyfield off the hook first time out.

I often wonder what would have happened had he KO5 Holyfield and then stopped Ruiz rather than Grant. No rematch to clutter the mind and beating Ruiz would have prevented Holyfield v Ruiz 1-2-3-4 if my chronology is accurate?

[jamesmcdonnell]

On Lewis versus Holmes, If they were to fight, I would have to pick Holmes. Lewis always struggled more against fighters able to establish a good jab of their own, and on this score, Holmes bows to nobody in boxing history. Holmes also had outstanding stamina and a brilliant chin.

In terms of legacy, I'd also put Holmes slightly ahead, if only because he would never allowed himself the mental weakness that left Lewis underprepared for Rahman. That being said, in terms of the relative strengths of their era's, I'd take Lewis's over Holmes's.

One more point: Klitschko is without a doubt the worst universally recognised heavyweight champion I can think of, topped, perhaps, by his china chinned brother. Why people rate this guy is truly beyond the scope of my admittedly puny brain.

Agreed.

Holmes was very quick, very durable, high workrate, very cultured fighter, and most importantly a terrific jab.

Lewis always struggled with fighters who could negate his jab, whilst Holmes struggled with quick fighters. Lewis wasn't really quick enough to trouble Holmes, but Lewis' jab would have made life extremely difficult for Lewis, and I think Holmes would have won down the stretch and busted Lewis up a bit, maybe even stopping him as Lewis tired.

[Lenny]

I agree with the two above posts but one things that always gets me is that if Holmes had the refs that Lewis had for Rahman and especially McCall, we'd be looking at him very differently now.

Not saying Lennox had the recuperation powers of Holmes but Larry is lucky he was given the chance. I'm sure not many would have complained had he been stopped in a few fights

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

If Holmes jab was that good why did he get outjabbed by Williams? Why did he get taken to a controversal SD against a past prime Norton? Why did he get taken to another controversal SD against Witherspoon? Why did he nearly get ko'd by a limited Shavers?

Against the best Holmes faced he struggled against, he may have the style to outbox Lewis for periods, but I think Lennox has more tools, more power and catches upto him and puts him away mid-late

[jamesmcdonnell]

Because Williams fought out of his skin that night. Plus if you pay attention to the fight Holmes was out-jabbed but then started to use Williams's left jab as a timer for Holmes's right hand. Williams drops his right when he jabs so Holmes figured this out, neglected his own jab at times, and then hit Williams with right hands. Highlighting the flaw that Weaver would later exploit, Weaver KO'd Williams with a counter when Williams let his shots go, dropping his right in the process.

Norton was past his prime but then again Holmes was not the big puncher needed to get a KO win over Norton. Plus Norton's style was not an Ali or Tyson style that required speed and youth. It was a tight guard, crab punching and pure grit type of style. That is why he pushed Holmes close.

He took a SD over Witherspoon because Tim, at that time, was an amazingly gifted prospect with a boxing brains trust running his corner. He made use of his low style, blocked well and countered the older man. Holmes then got into the fight more and did some sterling work as it went on. Energy + Youth versus Age + Guile, often a recipe for a SD.

As for Holmes being put down by Shavers. Yes, Shavers was limited. On the other hand his punch power was almost unlimited. Therefore Holmes nearly got KO'd because he got hit by a huge shot from one of the biggest hitters ever. That he did not get KO'd, and got up to win a clear fight, is hardly a knock against Holmes is it?

In fact if you give them a bit more thought all you points reflect well on Holmes. I love Lewis but given the Shavers shot Lewis would not have got back to his feet.

Shavers would have smashed Lewis into next week if he had managed to connect with one of his howitzers.

Holmes' chin was leagues above Lewis' of that there can be no doubt. Lewis' chin wasn't bad, but some of the shots Holmes rebounded from quite incredible.

[DavidPayne]

Interesting equation this, if Shavers was the murderer we thought him to be, how was Holmes able to regroup? Does Shavers really hit harder than say McCall. Is it the force or the resistance that maketh the legend?

[J]

I agree with the two above posts but one things that always gets me is that if Holmes had the refs that Lewis had for Rahman and especially McCall, we'd be looking at him very differently now.

Not saying Lennox had the recuperation powers of Holmes but Larry is lucky he was given the chance. I'm sure not many would have complained had he been stopped in a few fights

Yup Renaldo"Mr"Snipes had him on queer street fro sure, have no idea how Holmes survived that

[jamesmcdonnell]

Interesting equation this, if Shavers was the murderer we thought him to be, how was Holmes able to regroup? Does Shavers really hit harder than say McCall. Is it the force or the resistance that maketh the legend?

I forget who the referee was for the Holmes v Shavers fight, but he said that Holmes had the best powers of recovery he had ever seen. Apparently when Holmes was hit by Shavers, he was actually unconcious on the way down, and woke up when his head hit the canvas.

The ref said that when Holmes got up, his eyes were 'glassy as hell' but that within a few seconds of rising, they had cleared and he was functioning again properly.

Holmes could be hurt, but his ability to shrug off the effects of a shot were unbelievable.

Lennox Lewis had a decent enough beard, but both times he was stopped he was lurching all over the ring and although you could have made a case for letting him continue, it would have taken a brave ref to let him carry on fighting.

[Gray-Fox]

Shavers-Lyle is the best slugfest I have seen in many a year.

Better than Foreman-Lyle?

[Captain Hook]

I'd say so, but it's close.

I had the great pleasure of meeting Shavers, have a great pic of me landing one on his chin :)

.....at about 1mph.

His hands were as big as my head!

[Poncey]

Shavers-Lyle is the best slugfest I have seen in many a year.

Better than Foreman-Lyle?

Chacon v Limon IV is the greatest slug-fest every to be captured on camera in my opinion.

Better than two Foreman v Lyles with a Corrales v Castillo thrown on top. Imagine Hagler v Hearns for 15 rounds.

[Captain Hook]

Much much more low key but thoroughly enjoed Lloyd v Wenton the other night on Nuts.

Raw and thrilling dust-up...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Shavers-Lyle is the best slugfest I have seen in many a year.

Better than Foreman-Lyle?

Chacon v Limon IV is the greatest slug-fest every to be captured on camera in my opinion.

Better than two Foreman v Lyles with a Corrales v Castillo thrown on top. Imagine Hagler v Hearns for 15 rounds.

Yeah got that at home.

Another great one is Lupe Pintor against Wilfredo Gomez what a bloody fight!
Matthew Saad Muhammad against Yaqui Lopez anyone?
I'd say Bowe v Holyfield is a bit of a modern classic, as is Bowe v Golota in both fights.