Dioufy wrote:I meant it should've been stopped when Bute took that last right-hand.
And there was a warning for Steel - that red light directly behind him, but I think, that was a perfect stoppage as well.
I think personally you could have either stopped the fight say 10 seconds or so before when Bute looked in trouble or not at all. Simply because after that right hand Bute was not going to take any more punches. No more damage was to be done to Bute. Now a case could be made for a few seconds before it - but not when Bute was down or when he got up.
One of the things a ref most fair (well Jay Nady mentioned in the Judah vs Tszyu fight) is a punch on an already concussed fighter, this could have still technically happend in the Taylor fight, it could still have happend in the Macc fight and it could have about in the Judah fight. It wasn't going to happen this one.
I'm not saying it would have been the greatest travesity of justice had Bute been stopped with say 15 seconds to go when he was running a bit - but I think to wave it off when he was down (and the bell had gone) or got up would have been. Especially as he was more knackered than hurt.
Bute catches heat from press!
The Montreal Gazette, hometown newspaper of unbeaten IBF super middleweight champion Lucian Bute, has weighed in on the side of challenger Librado Andrade in regard to the result of Friday night's world championship thriller. In an article titled "A Travesty Of Boxing Justice," the paper says referee Marlon B. Wright's 24-second count after Andrade's late knockdown of Bute cost Andrade the victory and a huge upset. The article also quotes Andrade's trainer Howard Grant as saying "I don't think my guy won more than two or three rounds going into the 12th. I told him: 'you've got to knock the s--- out of this guy, you've got to put him on his a--.' So he did that. He knocked him out. He put him on the canvas and he won the fight, but he didn't win because of the referee."
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Grant was also upset that Wright had claimed on the radio that he and Grant were not friends. "What is he saying? I've known this guy for 29 years, since I was 13 years old," Grant told the Gazette. "Why does he have to say that? He's been a good referee, one of the best in Canada. But I think this is going to tarnish his reputation. He's saying he did a perfect job. Everybody can see he didn't. He should be a man about it and admit he made a mistake."
Fair point, I guess, but I am one of those fans that think if a fighter is hurt to the point of were he can't defend himself in those permitted 12 rounds then it should be stopped. I think the fight should've been stopped when Bute was running but I definitely feel that it should've been stopped when Bute took that last punch. I would've stopped it when Bute hit the deck, and not even counted because it was a sickening barrage of punches Bute took unanswered. And the referee, for me, had given him the benefit of the doubt anyways by letting the fight continue even though in the referees words Bute "was out on his feet". This was prior to the knockdown, and I don't know about this, but isn't it a referee's job to stop a fight when he can't defend himself or/and is out on his feet?
First, I haven't seen the Bute fight yet, but I agree that it is the referee's job to stop a fighter from taking unecessary punishment, which is why I vehemently disagree with the Chavez - Taylor stoppage. Chavez would not have had time to land another shot.
Again, I don't feel the rules should be changed regarding how long is left in the fight. If people think that Bute beat the count then fair play to them, but I disagree. He was glass-eyed, unable to look at the referee, his head was moving in circles, had no control over his bodily-movements and all of his body-weight was against the ropes. To me, that's not beating the count. Perhaps people feel otherwise. But the guy didn't know where he was and the referee should've got medical attention to him as soon as possible.
That's my thoughts on it now, I shall leave you guys to discuss the rest. Nice speaking to you.
rhino222 wrote:it was an awfully long count, the timekeeper should be counting and the ref latches onto the number the time keeper is at once the fuss has died down. i was already at about 12 when the ref started on 6...
it was awful, count it yourself from when he is knocked down.......i challenge you to say its not a long count.
100% correct,as soon as the fighter touches down a count should start @ 1,not 2 (nor 2 minutes later in this case)
None really, he beat Andrade clearly. He should of gone and tried to stop him because Andrade Is the super middleweight Margarito, he's easy to outbox and Is limited but he's got an Iron chin and keeps coming forward.
steve689 wrote:Where did you lot get watching this fight?
World boxing video archive for me. Youtube is too grainy. There was a decent copy on Current Scene on Sat.
Someone has posted on a rival forum that the bell shouldn't have sounded until the Referee had finished His count. Have checked the IBF and IBF Championship rules and neither say this.
banjo wrote:
And it's alright people saying he survived and made it to the final bell but what if he collapsed or dropped dead in the changing room at the end of the fight?
The point is that he didn't.
Your logic is badly flawed Wouter. Just because he did recover, makes no difference. In the condition he was in, there was a higher than acceptable risk that he could have been injured. As such, he should have been stopped.
A simple analogy highlights this. If someone drink drives, but the police don't catch him and he doesn't hurt anybody, is that OK? Is it OK that he drove drunk? The outcome is irrelevant.
banjo wrote:
And it's alright people saying he survived and made it to the final bell but what if he collapsed or dropped dead in the changing room at the end of the fight?
The point is that he didn't.
Your logic is badly flawed Wouter. Just because he did recover, makes no difference. In the condition he was in, there was a higher than acceptable risk that he could have been injured. As such, he should have been stopped.
A simple analogy highlights this. If someone drink drives, but the police don't catch him and he doesn't hurt anybody, is that OK? Is it OK that he drove drunk? The outcome is irrelevant.
If you knew how the fight would eventually unfold, would you still stop it?
Maelstrom wrote:Your logic is badly flawed Wouter. Just because he did recover, makes no difference. In the condition he was in, there was a higher than acceptable risk that he could have been injured. As such, he should have been stopped.
A simple analogy highlights this. If someone drink drives, but the police don't catch him and he doesn't hurt anybody, is that OK? Is it OK that he drove drunk? The outcome is irrelevant.
If you knew how the fight would eventually unfold, would you still stop it?
Maelstrom, I know and like your logic on this - but the KEY issue for me is that he WASN'T at a higher risk. Cause Andrade wasn't going to throw any more punches. The fight was over.
Now, if you are saying the fight should have been stopped a few seconds before he went down then you arguement holds more validity for me. That for me is where this controvesy is really open for debate.
Remember round 11 of Eubank vs Watson 2 - should the ref allowed Watson out for the 12th. Hindsight no, he was in no position to continue from that punch that KD him at the end of the 11th. Had the ref stopped the fight and Watson was okay after there would have been an outcry of injustice - and that was for just not allowing Watson a minute recovery. Had this fight been stopped after Bute rose and the was no chance for futher punishment then sorry, that would have been a travesty.
Now, if you are arguing for say 10 seconds before when Bute was running away - you have case, one I don't agree with, but certainly can see your point.
Captain Hook wrote:He was all over the place and had that not been the 12th he'd have been stopped. I had it at 10 seconds as he was just about standing...
Now that is the arguement, should the fight been stopped with say 20 seconds to go. Personally I think no, he was running but was managing to evade the punches (by running).
I counted it as 8 seconds and he was up (just about) THEN the ref did the bollocks to Andrade and the total count was 20 seconds. Not 24.
I'd have stopped it, he was only just up at 10 and in no fit state to continue.
Regardless of the time - whether it was 0.5 seconds or two minutes - he was TKOed in my opinion but you could certainly argue the other way because there was no time for Andrade to inflict further punishment.
I do think in light of this thread, and the one on the 28 day suspension that maybe a new ruling should be made with regards to someone seriously hurt in a fight but not stopped should have some suspension.
I know Bute won't fight for a month, but technically he could - as could Maccrinelli after to Scott fight, Calzaghe after the Mitchell fight, Hatton after the Collazo fight. In some case they are in more trouble than fighters who have been stopped (e.g. Manfredo) maybe something should be done about hurt fighters.
As soon as that right landed that put Bute down then I would've stopped it, and not even administrated a count. I feel the referee had already given Bute the benefit of the doubt by not stopping it when Bute couldn't defend himself and when he had taken quite a few unanswered punches, and for me, that last right was it - Andrade had TKO'ed him. It was a sickening end and I would've got medical attention to Bute as soon as he hit the deck because anyone would've probably been out like Bute was after that punch.
Dioufy wrote:As soon as that right landed that put Bute down then I would've stopped it, and not even administrated a count. I feel the referee had already given Bute the benefit of the doubt by not stopping it when Bute couldn't defend himself and when he had taken quite a few unanswered punches, and for me, that last right was it - Andrade had TKO'ed him. It was a sickening end and I would've got medical attention to Bute as soon as he hit the deck because anyone would've probably been out like Bute was after that punch.
I disagree, he wasn't spralled on the canvas arms to the side and if he was that out of it he wouldn't have got up before 10. He wasn't like Khan's second KO vs Prescott - now that is when you don't administer a count.... Audley vs Sprott also.
