BoxRec

Coco wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If you watch McCall when he took a pounding from Lewis, you will notice that his bull-like neck stops his head being swung around on it's axis when he takes the shots. He is blasted across the ring at points, but his massive neck muscles transmit the force to his shoulders and through the body.

I played a fair bit of rugby as a kid, at hooker, which built my neck up, I like to think I had a solid chin, maybe it helped

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

WildWaylon wrote:People get knocked out being hit on the side of the jaw or on the temple as well as the chin. A good hard rabbit punch can do the job as well, so maybe its just the brain rattling inside the skull. As we are all a bit different from each other, some can recover from this shock to the brain better than others. When you think about it boxing is pretty dangerous with the brain being jolted thousands of times in a fighters career from hooks and jabs, never mind the flush shots that put you over. They certainly earn their money with pain and cuts and grueling training and never knowing if they may suffer brain damage. Its a hard way to make a living and only a few make the really big money.

Rabbit punches are banned, because the brain stem is highly sensitive to trauma, there are masses of nerve bundles near the surface of the neck, where it joins the brain, and it's easy to damage it and render someone unconscious.

The brain rattling inside the skulls rarely produces unconsciousness, the brain has no nerve endings to feel pain, which is why often fighters feel nothing when the brain is injured until there is a large swelling. Brain injury is cumulative, and it's areas of scarring and cell necrosis which cause the permanent damage fighters exhibit after they retire.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Knockouts are caused either by compression, or torsion of the spinal column, which causes a shock to the nervous system, or a concussion caused by accelleration of the brain within the cranium. The other factor is temple shots which are the location of a large nerve bundle much like the solar plexus.

A thick jaw will dampen the shock waves which travel through the jaw to the cranium, and a thick neck will prevent the torsion or compression of the neck (torsion is from hooks and straight shots, compression from uppercuts).

Of all the factors I've seen over the years of watching boxing, a thick and short neck seems to be the main component, think of all the fighters who had cast iron chins, McCall, Tyson, Hagler, they are the prototype.

I think fighters with long necks tend to be more susceptible especially to shots on the top of the head, which bend the neck at an acute angle. The shorter and thicker the neck muscles, the harder it is to produce this effect.

I know that Jonny Owen had an unusually thick jaw bone, but a very thin eggshell like skull, which is why he was able to take big shots, but they produced so much damage to his brain.

ALI wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Knockouts are caused either by compression, or torsion of the spinal column, which causes a shock to the nervous system, or a concussion caused by accelleration of the brain within the cranium. The other factor is temple shots which are the location of a large nerve bundle much like the solar plexus.

A thick jaw will dampen the shock waves which travel through the jaw to the cranium, and a thick neck will prevent the torsion or compression of the neck (torsion is from hooks and straight shots, compression from uppercuts).

Of all the factors I've seen over the years of watching boxing, a thick and short neck seems to be the main component, think of all the fighters who had cast iron chins, McCall, Tyson, Hagler, they are the prototype.

I think fighters with long necks tend to be more susceptible especially to shots on the top of the head, which bend the neck at an acute angle. The shorter and thicker the neck muscles, the harder it is to produce this effect.

I know that Jonny Owen had an unusually thick jaw bone, but a very thin eggshell like skull, which is why he was able to take big shots, but they produced so much damage to his brain.

Very insightful posts James, made for interesting reading. Have you studied sports science or something? Where would you gain such knowledge?

Manchester Massive wrote:

ALI wrote:Just how much do we know about the scientific aspect of a person's ability to take a shot? What exactly is it that differs between one man to the next?

On one hand, you have Herbie Hide, who my granny could probably bowl over with a left jab if timed right. Then, on the other, you have someone like Hollyfield, who could be hit flush on with a sledgehammer and still stay upright.

Probably Herbie is not the best example to use here as i believe half of his problems are mental (Klitscko KO'd him with a phantom shot after all). But, given the mind is right and the will is there, why is it that some fighters can take a shot and others (through no fault of their own) simply cannot.

Can anyone refer me to any scientific research on this subject. It would make for interesting reading.

The book Four Kings also mentions that Marvin Hagler had an abnormally thick skull when he was given a brain scan

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Actually, the bit about the temple is wrong, just checked it. I would have to guess the temple is susceptible because that portion of the skull is thinner and there's little padding over it, maybe that's why it produces a lot of KO's. Or perhaps just because it is quite high up on the head.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Rabbit punches are banned, because the brain stem is highly sensitive to trauma, there are masses of nerve bundles near the surface of the neck, where it joins the brain, and it's easy to damage it and render someone unconscious..

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:A thick strong neck, a very strong upper and lower back and strong legs will all help take a punch. Look at relatively weak chinned guys they usually have weak skinny legs and long thin necks - Wlad, Hearns, 'Insert tall rangy gangly type'. Then look at iron chins - Holyfield, Tyson (both have huge necks)

Also fighters who have their chin in their air versus a tucked chin will give drastically different abilities to take a punch, so will a compact body versus an upright standing body. Look at Ali backing up with his chin in the air against Cooper, then tucked up tight against the ropes getting smashed by Foreman/Shavers.

Then there are men with thicker skulls/jaws, so the bone is simply more durable

Then their are fighters who seem to take shots and have a good chin but manage to roll the punches and not get hit flush. If anyone takes enough shots flush they'll get KO'd

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Rabbit punches are banned, because the brain stem is highly sensitive to trauma, there are masses of nerve bundles near the surface of the neck, where it joins the brain, and it's easy to damage it and render someone unconscious..

I always wondered if BEnn's viscous and continual rabbit punches contributed to McCellan's condition

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:A thick strong neck, a very strong upper and lower back and strong legs will all help take a punch. Look at relatively weak chinned guys they usually have weak skinny legs and long thin necks - Wlad, Hearns, 'Insert tall rangy gangly type'. Then look at iron chins - Holyfield, Tyson (both have huge necks)

Also fighters who have their chin in their air versus a tucked chin will give drastically different abilities to take a punch, so will a compact body versus an upright standing body. Look at Ali backing up with his chin in the air against Cooper, then tucked up tight against the ropes getting smashed by Foreman/Shavers.

Then there are men with thicker skulls/jaws, so the bone is simply more durable

Then their are fighters who seem to take shots and have a good chin but manage to roll the punches and not get hit flush. If anyone takes enough shots flush they'll get KO'd

Except Oliver McCall, who seems utterly impervious - no wonder though, look at the size of his bloody jawbone.

stujones wrote:We often talk about a fighter losing their punch resistance, but can a punch resistance improve also with age. I'm just remembering old Tommy Morrison getting whalloped by Mercer and Bent and then surviving big bombs vs Lewis and Mercer.

Barrera and Oscar De La Hoya were in the early career considered chinny. Indeed on a respected US forum where I was posting on at the time - alot of US fight fans said the Barrera would be winning against Hamed, but then predicted Hamed to land something to crack his china chin.

I'm just wondering when Khan, who physiologically has the "look" of a chinny fighter, gets his man strength - will he be more durable. Are people to quick to write him off.

Manchester Massive wrote:

ALI wrote:Just how much do we know about the scientific aspect of a person's ability to take a shot? What exactly is it that differs between one man to the next?

On one hand, you have Herbie Hide, who my granny could probably bowl over with a left jab if timed right. Then, on the other, you have someone like Hollyfield, who could be hit flush on with a sledgehammer and still stay upright.

Probably Herbie is not the best example to use here as i believe half of his problems are mental (Klitscko KO'd him with a phantom shot after all). But, given the mind is right and the will is there, why is it that some fighters can take a shot and others (through no fault of their own) simply cannot.

Can anyone refer me to any scientific research on this subject. It would make for interesting reading.

The book Four Kings also mentions that Marvin Hagler had an abnormally thick skull when he was given a brain scan